Terrapin Station

That's the sort of "allowing" that doesn't amount to much, because what isn't "allowed" can be done, and with no repercussions. So we'd need to clarif...

You don't believe that politicians are allowed to invent laws?

The enemy I've picked is the idea that speech causes actions.

How would you suppose the geopolitical border exists where we just don't know where it is? What, exactly, do you think the geopolitical border is? Rac...

Yes definitely. I'm a realist in that sense. I'm between a subjectivist and social constructivist on mathematics. I would say that what we're thinking...

Of course. Most things are real in that sense.

Re that, by the way, if someone thought that there was no clear/discernible real border for "objects"--for example, maybe they think that everything i...

Yes, real, but (a) they can be more or less fuzzy depending on the point of reference, and (b) there's nothing about them in terms of concepts that's ...

I'm never arguing that it's morally problematic to have any thought/belief or to make any statement. Surely you're not using "unacceptable" in this co...

Ontological, and as I stress in the text, I'm not referring to a sentient observer (so necessarily it's a type of realism). The idea is simply that th...

When I was a kid, a friend and I read Aleister Crowley's The Book of Lies and we were fascinated by it, because it was so subversive and weird and ins...

Right. Otherwise one would have to say that logic was primary to god and god has to obey it.

I agree with the initial post in the thread, but I also think StreetlightX's crack about the title you chose is spot-on. The usual defense is that som...

Exactly. For awhile--back in the later 90s, early 2000s, I used to regularly ask, "Don't we teach 'sticks and stones' any longer?" Apparently, we actu...

Actually, I think that one important thing that precipitated the social persecution/"you're going to more or less be assumed guilty" movement was the ...

Somehow we arrived at it being fairly popular beliefs that: (a) any offense taken by someone in response to speech indicates something that needs to b...

Again, people use right/wrong, correct/incorrect with a normative implication. Examples of that abound, and it's inherent in anyone correcting anyone ...

That's yet another problem with some of the papers being referenced. Hate speech is contributing to hate crimes in many cases simply because hate spee...

Only insofar as making statements about how most people (in some population) use language.

The only exception is when we're talking about what the crowd thinks/believes per se. So what the crowd thinks about hate speech is obviously relevant...

First, even if everyone agrees on it, borders aren't objective things, so they're not "real" in that sense. (Even if there's something like a wall or ...

It's irrelevant if the crowd thinking something doesn't determine that something is right/correct. You can't just appeal to the crowd when they happen...

The discussion doesn't seem to have much to do with "Is life/existence logical," which is a question that seems like a category error to me at any rat...

So the crowd doesn't determine what's right. I have no problem going along with the crowd when I think they're right. I don't think they're right in t...

Justification is part of the nature of knowledge. All that justification is, by the way, is "what S (the person in question) considers good, sufficien...

One thing I don't understand about your views, by the way, is why you wouldn't think that there are correct judgments in ethics and aesthetics. There ...

We want to fit in with the norm without rocking the boat/without any sort of philosophical questioning, etc.?

There's no infinite regress, though. If you ask me, for example, how I know that I have orange juice in the refrigerator, I can say things like, "Beca...

At any rate, we can dispense with the charade that you don't have anything normative in mind by noting that such and such is the "correct 'meaning'" o...

No, there aren't. Knowing you, surely you mean either that there are popular interpretations, or otherwise maybe you'd be going with the author's inte...

There aren't right interpretations.

Your problem is that you don't think you're wrong just because you go along with the crowd.

No, it isn't. If you're thinking that consensus makes it true, it does not. That's the argumentum ad populum fallacy yet again.

Of course. I would only care about a consensus if (a) I were very or fairly unsure of my own views, and (b) I had good reason to believe that the peop...

Sure it is. My assessment is what I care about there. Same thing as with the other gym and exercise I do. I'm going by my own goals, my own assessment...

¯\_(?)_/¯ It's a fact that there are no facts re whether something is a benefit, aside from the fact that an individual assesses something to be a ben...

Argumentation in general does not need to, and most of the time does not, take a more traditional, structured approach a la formal, syllogistic, etc. ...

One of the primary reasons I come here is to stay in practice thinking about philosophical stuff in an interactive situation and to stay in practice e...

So let's say that someone agrees with most people on foundational views re good/bad. In that context, what is supposed to be the rhetorical point of m...

So god didn't create logic?

So you're going back and forth with me, talking about our ethical stances on hate speech, talking about foundational views of good or bad, talking abo...

All you need to do about anything is ask me my opinion and I'll tell you. You don't have to assume that I agree with you about anything. But okay, so ...

Okay . . . well, at least you agree that normatives are not determined by what most people think. But sure, maybe we don't agree on what's good or bad...

That can be your opinion, sure. It's certainly not mine. So we apparently don't agree on foundational views about what is good or bad, yet you're cont...

Normatives are NOT determined by "what most people think." This is a very important point.

Imposing something on society which most people consider to be of little benefit, despite what they consider to be a risk of harm, is going to be gene...

What bearing does a shared view of what is good or bad have on normatives?

Sure. So again, I asked you, and you quoted, "What bearing on anything does the fact that most people consider it to have no benefit have?" Your respo...

If x is a common opinion about the benefit of anything, the significance or implication of that is?

What do normatives have to do with what most people think?