Terrapin Station

Yes, there is. Saying that something is a value to no one in particular makes no sense. Value doesn't work that way.

So on your view, if you're stating an argument in terms of a natural language, natural language semantics doesn't matter because ____?

Which is irrelevant to whether the argument is semantically coherent. You're stating the argument in natural language. If it's not semantically cohere...

?? Don't you deal with your own beliefs? I don't think I understand this. So, let's say that I believe I stopped at the public library to use the rest...

How do you think that sound waves or ink on a page or whatever can literally be a belief?

If we use "subjective" to refer to mental phenomena, then beliefs would be subjective unless we're claiming that beliefs can obtain outside of minds s...

Good questions. Also, re this: "They’re going to be in the hands of doctors for the rest of their lives . . . Can you imagine having a life where you ...

Yes. Personally I care about honesty a lot more than respect.

:lol:

As long as we're talking about something observational and not simply something we can do with mathematical constructs, it would mean that you're obse...

I see it as reifying mathematics and other instrumental theoretical constructs, and subsequently doing bad philosophy. A lot of it amounts to the equi...

That's true, but if why is it that laws are so in line with Christian morality in the U.S.--and are such a struggle to change from that? I don't think...

Yeah, religion has a huge influence on laws . . . and there's no way around that, because we're surrounded with religious folks and they're voting (an...

I obviously do not agree with you on the coherence issue. And anyone can find anything offensive, degrading, etc. There are plenty of people who see r...

Yes. And what we're talking about--or, what's really going on in that talk, rather--is doing things with mathematical equations.

Why did you start another thread about this? You're the one who started the first thread a few days ago.

There's not a "thing" that creates separation between objects. There's just the facts of their extensional relations.

It's synonymous with "external" in context. In other words, "external to minds," or rather "external to brains functioning mentally."

That much is fine, actually. The problem is the argument you present, where you posit moral value "full stop." That is objectivist. What you'd need to...

No one is saying that people are apart from the world or that people can't interact with each other and influence each other. But your finger isn't a ...

So we've figured out that your argument works just in case one agrees with it.

People can be aspies, too.

At least you're entertaining as a clown.

No, it's not. I'm a moral subjectivist. "X is morally bad regardless of S's opinion" is the exact opposite of subjectivism. Your stupid modus ponens a...

Okay, but what you're arguing isn't subjectivism then.

That's objectivism. It's not subjectivism. Moral objectivism is incorrect. That's not what the world is like. Things are only morally good or bad to i...

We have found out that Steve did nothing wrong to Steve. Once again, these things are ALWAYS to someone. Someone else may have a different opinion.

Morally good to you yes. That's not false. It's obviously true, rather. That's the whole idea of you valuing something morally. It's morally valuable ...

The first, because it's incoherent as written. Valuations are always to someone. Statements about value that don't state or at least clearly imply who...

If you value raping someone (and you consider that a moral stance), the necessarily, to you, it is a moral value, or it is morally good, to rape someo...

Right. There's no "to you" written by you at the end of your premise, which is a problem, because valuations are ALWAYS to someone. There's no such th...

Why is there yet another thread discussing essentially the same thing?

I can fill it in for you: "If moral values are my valuings, then if I value something, necessarily it is morally valuable to me." That's definitely tr...

Er, no, you're not really understanding this. It has to be "necessarily it is morally valuable to ____" How do you want to fill in the blank? It's not...

Which would mean that your first premise is "f moral values are my valuings then if I value something it is necessarily morally valuable to another su...

So that's a problem as I pointed out. Valuations are always to someone. You can't have a valuation to no one.

Re your first premise, "then if I value something it is necessarily morally valuable"--to whom?

Yeah, it's a common phenomenon in Phil 101 or Intro to Phil-type classes, especially where they're taken as electives by people with other majors who ...

If you're going to try to argue, "This view, this challenge, etc. really does deserve respect. That view, that challenge, etc.really does not. It's ok...

I think that you'd likely be very hypocritical about treating things with respect.

So it's just hypocritical cheerleading for the views that you want to be treated with respect, screw people with different opinions?

Here's an illustration of what happens when Bender spaces: https://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/articles/Bender%2012.jpg

I think that religious beliefs are a combo of absurd, ignorant, and incoherent. And I think that racist beliefs are a combo of absurd, ignorant and in...

Why would you think they're "special" in this regard? (Unless that's an allusion to "special needs.") :razz:

A forum focused on "intellectual" subject matter, and where we can be anonymous/where there aren't verified prerequisites to participate.

Right. I'd restructure things so that they're not based on money in any traditional sense.

Because knowing isn't an alternative to belief, it's a qualified type of belief.

I can see complaining about negative attitudes, disrespect, etc. towards posts or towards posters in general, but (a) that's not at all limited to rel...

Say what? This is a complete non-sequitur with respect to your earlier comments. (1) needs a "to you" at the end. It's just like If you feel pain, the...

Wait, you're missing "Empirical claims are not provable." ("Given there are so many proofs ..."--no, there aren't. Empirical claims are not provable. ...