Ok, in written history, that is as far as we know, every state-organisation was fused with some kind of religion. So yes the early city-states in Sume...
No you probably had the odd atheist/sceptic, but there was no societal organisation that was outside of the religious/mythical, i.e. no secular state....
One could go another way with the Nazism example. Namely that precisely the secularization in the west, made it possible for guys like Hitler and Stal...
Yeah from me its the same T Clark. It comes from a broad understanding of history and philosophy... but mainly through a Nietzschian lens I suppose, b...
Yes, agreed. We are cultural beings. In homo sapiens, evolution has offloaded part of the process that determines how we act from instinctual algorith...
Yes, I would add to that, they probably originally started from the equally false notion that they themselves were entirely to blame for their failure...
Yeah I mostly agree with this, I do wonder (in light of you question about determinism) how relevant the distinction really is that we seem to be maki...
If what they want is some compassion and sympathy (for not getting what they really want), is the best strategy then denying them that too? Wouldn't t...
Because that's probably the philosophically least interesting thing about it. They are evil, that's it, conversation done. It think it's actually a pr...
Maybe they are not all that socially inept and unattractive, maybe some choose to remain single...but ultimately I don't think even that matters a who...
I'm thinking it used to be pretty clear what the dominant culture was (or maybe this is just the benefit of hindsight), but now not so much these days...
Yeah I had been thinking about this specifically. It's an interesting question. It definitely was the case that racism was an ideology of the ruling c...
Power is a vital aspect of the patriarchy. I don't think Incels have much power, on the contrary, they seem very much a marginal group. So I dunno, In...
I guess I would doubt the degree to which the Incel-movement has an additional effect on these issues. Violence and rape have been a part of our histo...
Okay, I"ll re-iterate why this shouldn't really be a concern other than for the incels themselves maybe. Social power, the ability to influence large ...
I actually asked the spokesman of the the Incel-movement these questions, and he told me that they want nothing less than world-domination. In their a...
Look Ciceronianus, coming here on a philosophy discussion board and telling someone he is just wrong in a demeaning way, without any argumentation or ...
My take it that this whole community-forming around misogynist values is a way to cope with their desperation yes. The idea that they themselves are r...
This is why It seems kinda silly to me to consider incels dangerous. Sure they have a pretty toxic community going on, but then they don't seem to hav...
I do think it came out of Christian values. Even the notion of the 'secular' only really makes sense in a Christian context (and etymological came out...
The world is alienating for many people, I agree with this, but then it doesn't seems to be acceptable to point this out if we are talking about incel...
This is what triggered me, I don't think this is how it works. In fact I even think Christianity, Catholicism and Protestantism following it, played a...
Yes that would be a more positive reaction, some obviously don't have the mental strength to avoid the pitfalls... I guess what bothers me is that the...
It's not only because they are jerks that they are marginalized, they are generally considered low status because they are single, and perhaps don't h...
Christoffer, I disagree with the whole way you look at these things, because I'm a materialist/physicalist, and believe ideas usually follow the physi...
Recent revolutions in population genetics suggest that a relative minority of men have had reproductive privilege historically, so i don't think looki...
No Tzeentch, society has decided that women are the victims, so it's okay to marginalize incel men... they are evil because they are man, and so techn...
This is a bigger problem in the US than say in Europe, and is more because of US gun laws and the place of violence in that society. I think one needs...
Yes that's what I suggested in my first post: But ultimately the problem is not totally solvable by acceptable means I think, there will always be tho...
Maybe Benj, only the future can tell. Beliefs are interlinked with the body, and do influence our actions, yes. But as a society we generally condemn ...
God, you really have drunk that progressive kool-aid. It's not just a matter of a bunch of guys holding onto an outdated ideologies, I think you under...
More radical by todays standards maybe, but not in an absolute sense I don't think, they used to form roving warbands, were recruited in the army, or ...
Incels always have been a problem historically, because a lot of testosterone without a reason (aka a women and a family) that can channel it into a s...
It's a thorny issue in more than one way, but a large part of the problem is that acknowledging all the different aspects of the issue, poses fundamen...
I does matter some, there are carbons sinks that have more time to draw carbon out of the atmosphere, and slower emissions do mean slower temperature ...
Beware of pointing to population as a contributing factor in this eco-crisis, you will get accused of being a Malthusian. It's not overlooked, it's ta...
I didn't really address this particular point I feel. The problem I have with this idea (that it is logically impossible to predict what humans will d...
Yes, it is what I take away from it I guess. Michels wasn't a static entity either ;-), he started out a socialist and when he wrote about the Iron la...
Thank you for your response. I think I disagree with the general picture you paint though. A lot of historians do indeed view human history and future...
Oligarchies fail eventually, even Michels himself says as much, because oligarchs tend to always push inequalities to far, and so it breeds discontent...
Yes yes, it always comes down to this, we don't like the consequence of an idea, so it can't be true... as if the consequences of an idea have anythin...
I wanna say maybe Poppers critique is itself ideological, as a progressive you would want the future to be unconstrained from the past, so it can be w...
Comments