All of nature hunts, kills, consumes, devours; vines strangle, weeds crowd out and take over, each animals draws oxygen from the air leaving waste in ...
I don’t think we should frame things in the future. If determinism is true then the present is set. If determinism is true, at no time in the present ...
Hey Banno. I would discount the ass made a choice. If I could ask the ass what his deliberations were that led him to his “choice,” and the ass didn’t...
You said “we must act”. And you said “act despite not knowing the principles.” So there is acting based on principles, and there is also acting despit...
That’s certainly fine. Would you agree that communities do change and change their minds, so the agreements reached can revise and change as well? Tha...
Billions of theists for thousands of years, since the time of the Shaman and medicine man - all of them so unsophisticated. They probably don’t even k...
Great! Interesting. Do you agree with me then, that anyone who does not believe in natural, objective truths, really has no ground to stand on to buil...
Well then you might be agreeing with me! Some people who don’t believe in God, also say things like “there is no truth” or “there are no absolutes.” S...
Why make moral laws we all should follow if there is no objectivity we all must follow? If there is no possibility of obtaining objective, universally...
No, that’s backwards. When I was an atheist, I figured out that there has to be an objective truth. So I was still thinking critically ( not about mor...
Started this few posts back saying if I didn’t believe in God and objective truth, I’d see no reason to make moral laws or argue with anyone about the...
Sure we can - it’s possible. It’s called a religious sect, or maybe a Church. Some ideas are stupid, and others ring true. Same for ideas of God. Same...
I wrote the rest of that for nothing? You won’t speak to my point at all? You can’t get there? It’s a simple point: why make moral laws we all should ...
I agree we don’t have any certain way (that comes from anyone else but our own selves) to establish how God wants us to behave. God doesn’t send every...
Well I understand you don’t believe in god or religion, and you don’t seem to be an Aristotelian platonist about objectivity, so if I was you, I would...
I’m not arguing why I believe in God and objective truth. You are asking me to justify my beliefs to you as if I was using my beliefs to justify somet...
Determinism says every present effect follows a prior cause / that’s the only mechanism of physical interaction among agents. But Hume and Kant showed...
But what happens when you realize that everything we construct today will utterly change and be wiped away? What happens to the “objectivity” that is ...
Then why speak? It’s all babble. No one will ever truly know anyone or anything if it’s all subjective any way you go. Nothing is left to share among ...
No one can point to objectivity through reason and science alone. Plato tried, Aristotle, Hegel, Descartes - they are all punching bags to us post mod...
Im saying there is an objective truth. Maybe no one has said it, but because of my faith it’s worth trying to say something objective, universal, abso...
You told me to read it carefully and read it again and parse it out with questions. I don’t suppose you meant me to do that with the above. Ok, the vi...
It occurred to me that as soon as it is proven to me that I do NOT have free will, that I will still have to give my consent to never ask the question...
The individual stories aren’t relevant individually, but in order for the aggregate to display more or less suffering, you can’t gather individual sto...
Where? When? Who? Effectively? No two philosophers can agree on anything, let alone build off of it together. I’m not an expert on living the atheist ...
That makes sense. So, an atheist can have an interest in talking philosophy, truth and ethics, but in the end, as soon as they hit that pointless wall...
Lots of evidence there is no such thing as free will. The biggest proponents of free will are people who believe in good and evil objectively and a fr...
I agree that is what we do. But if I thought that was all we could do, I would see it as futile. I see in every age, the same outcomes of all of our p...
Suffering itself is a physical, mental lived experience. The context around suffering, to me, would be the body and its environment, or the psychology...
Link to a post where you think I’m not responding to you. The clear “here is the AN argument and here is why it is the most logical ethic” post or pos...
Honest question - if I knew in my heart of hearts that the idea of a god, and the practice of a religion, were completely fabricated, wish fulfillment...
There is no need to. We are are discussing the logic of ending procreation to make the world more ethical and prevent future suffering. There is a law...
When I was arguing that we can’t be ethical towards a future person who does not exist, you went on and on about how it was not about the child. You s...
Schop, I’m not trying to be uncharitable. I’ve told you that anyone who wants to prevent suffering has their heart in the right place. Answer me one q...
It’s not my job to demonstrate that the suffering that exists in life is only animating factor of ethics. That’s your job as an AN proponent. By simpl...
It’s THE defining factor. Take out that life is suffering, you take out that procreation causes life which causes suffering, AND you take out the ethi...
What right do I have to make someone else late for work by driving too slow? What right do I have to cause a car accident? None. So if preventing suff...
By favorably you mean see the logic, because AN is all gloom and doom about all of life and what is the best thing to do about it - doesn’t do any of ...
So if life only had a little bit of suffering in it, for everyone, the AN argument would fail? That’s not what Schop is saying. And it opens the whole...
No one has explained how it is logical for an AN person to say “thou shalt not procreate” but, after a person breaks that rule and gets pregnant, how ...
I can’t believe it’s even a small subset, because it’s illogical to me to promote an ethic that defeats the existence of all ethical subjects. I’m jus...
So any degree of suffering is bad. I get that about your argument. I get it. Dignity is preserved in the person who prevents suffering by not procreat...
Call me an idiot but I thought we were talking about ethics, a moral law. If all the people who were thinking about procreating asked “what ought I do...
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