kindred

My argument has evolved slightly from the opening post as I’ve gained more perspective on the matter, and I’m thankful for the members who have taken ...

Am I missing something obvious captain ? I assume your elocution skills have failed you.

Not sure I follow since I’m omitting a physical thing which is what sodium is.

Would you accept the analogy of fish to a pond, although the pond is just a container just like the universe the life in it would make the pond alive ...

How can intelligence be separate from matter to be able to supervene on it ? Are you claiming a diety? If intelligence is distinct from the physical h...

That’s like saying humans beings are not intelligent but only their brains are. This is a linguistic distraction at best from the argument that one of...

Is it not an attribute or property of a physical thing ? How can intelligence be a tangible thing that can be touched? How would you support your asse...

Since intelligence is a non-physical thing could it exist independently of matter or is it just an embedded property of matter? If it’s an embedded pr...

Sure there would be differences. What’s your point ? Language is just used for naming and describing different things it does not necessarily follow t...

Well the universe is hardly non-intelligent humans excluded so I don’t see how it’s such a fallacy. There’s definitely an intelligence at play from th...

Of course not they’re different objects with their own separate existence but they’re both just lumps of mass. Language here serves to differentiate b...

That’s not the question I’m asking but I appreciate your input. We know one thing for sure, that matter went from being inanimate to animate in this u...

Yes photons are confusing because they’re both waves and particles as far as i understand the concept. I’d say that mass is not just a property but a ...

Non-intelligent? Not so sure about that, because the universe contains intelligence it would make it an intelligent universe. This intelligence then i...

But matter (mass) is an existent of itself is it not ? Matter is mass as mass is a physical characteristic and exists in itself and can be used interc...

Exactly this. Unicorns exist but they are not real. They exist as concepts (especially in fairy tales and they act too, fictionally speaking). My defi...

To simplify things I will equate most forms of life as a manifestation of intelligence even though they might not be intelligent themselves, they act ...

Not something but intelligence particularly. Since inanimate matter has the potential to become animate through abiogenesis and eventually intelligent...

Then how or why did matter become intelligent unless intelligence was there to begin with.

Then that must mean intelligence precedes life in that it’s the potential for inanimate matter to become matter. Where did this intelligence come from...

pretty much, the rest seems to be technicalities. If intelligence did happen then it had to happen, we’re just arguing if it happened before or not. T...

Sure the same way that tree is not as intelligent as a squirrel. I get you, yet we have both flora and fauna in this universe which over time emerged ...

This is a good point. Time limit or no we know one thing for sure that is that life (intelligence) emerged. What you object to is whether it was an in...

You’re right of course the word logical was not necessary unless invoking a non-logical explanation such as god did it or other supernatural explanati...

Hi wayfarer thanks for your post. The question boils down to inevitability, possibility and actuality. Working in reverse we know that life (intellige...

Thanks I understand your point now. Just because life happened doesn’t necessarily mean that it was inevitable. Since current physics (quantum physics...

There’s only a valid post-hoc distinction between possible and necessary in this case. Since life did emerge then it’s necessary, if it didn’t then it...

The intelligence has always been there it’s just a matter of ingredients or parts. In order to build a car first you have to invent the wheel. The inv...

Irrespective of whether nature is deterministic or not we do know that life/intelligence emerged at least in this universe which means that not only i...

Then you could equate life with intelligence and you’d be saying that intelligence is a rare property of non-life. If, mass/matter only emerged with t...

I fall into the A category although slightly modified … everything has the potential to be alive or intelligent. Plant a seed and it will bloom into a...

Hi Janus, as we know life came from non-life. Intelligence from non-intelligence so intelligence was at least a potential of non-life and since this p...

Would you then agree that non-life has the potential to give rise to life and intelligence? Would you also then agree that at the very least intellige...

At first it looks like a compositional fallacy yet at the same time you can’t get something from nothing just like you can’t get life from non-life un...

So you don’t believe that these processes exhibit intelligence from an anthropic perspective? Just because there’s an intelligence behind the motion o...

Your view is that intelligence evolves with the progress of the universe. My belief is that intelligence from inception has no such ceilings. It’s pro...

I would claim that something has always existed, as existence is a brute fact. The question I ask whether prior to the Big Bang and this universe if t...

What we do know is that intelligence exists in some type of nervous system i.e. organic brains. It’s not to far fetched or impossible for such intelli...

Sure that’s a nice hypothesis I like it however it implies that life could still have existed pre-big bang if those conditions were somehow met during...

Hi wonderer1, thanks for your input, you’ve made a good point. The chance of abiogenesis happening is obviously 1 as life did in fact emerge from non-...

I believe I can rationally justify it. Intelligence as we know exists throughout nature. There are certainly phenomena in nature which exhibit intelli...

@"Relativist" If God wanted to prove to anyone that he exists he could easily do that but he doesn’t and in this way he remains mysterious to his bein...

Mental illnesses are diverse from schizophrenia to addictions and despite the progress of psychology remain largely misunderstood. There are physiolog...

Post agreement utopia where everyone in that society has the same criteria, ideal and vision where the only disagreements would come prior to its foun...

That’s all well and good if your criteria of reincarnation is as slack as a good impression of that person or just imitation. Personhood has a more st...

Laws should be obeyed as long as they are just. If they are unjust then adjusting laws either by legislation change or rebellion/revolution is the rig...

An enlightened society without nation state politics but rather one world government, something like USA but on a global level would reduce wars or wa...

It did occur to me that there are great similarities between the utopia I have described in my op and the idea of Christian heaven. The elimination of...

Who says he hasn’t. It just so happens that we live in a world with suffering but also with joy. Back in the garden of Eden it was such a world withou...

Knowledge of something and the experience of something are two very different things. Take for example a sweet tasting beverage like orange juice or C...