frank

:smile:

J explains it pretty well in the OP. p is the proposition that the sun rises in the east q is the proposition that I will see the sun above my barn If...

That's cool, except China is in the process of building about 50 coal burning power plants. :sad:

The SEP says this about Frege's view of assertion: " It is in the force of an utterance that the step is taken from the content to the actual point of...

It seems that Bob paid for the statue rather than the clay, though. Did Bob pay for something that isn't physical?

That was fascinating. The answer was that Quine would say I have a unique connection to the world, but I also mind-meld with my community so that my l...

makes sense :up:

@"Banno" Imagine someone saying something like this about numbers: "What numbers never do is just hang out quantifying trees." How would you respond t...

Quine believed in semantic holism, right?

Right. That's the first thing that occurred to me about it. Frege's propositions must reflect context of utterance. I was thinking there might be some...

Isn't it because the world is supposed to stand on it's own, and true propositions are states of the world? If you read a textbook on anatomy, you are...

Cool. Logo / psychism is basically stoicism.

It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission. Especially if it's the Netherlands.

I see what you're saying. I just don't think anyone other than a few stray mystics is ever truly illogical. The person who is being admonished to be m...

Maybe form and formlessness are dependent on one another for meaning. It's one concept.

That's interesting. One of the books I read about Plotinus suggested that he was an eliminative idealist (like a reflection of an eliminative material...

I've never thought of logic as normative. Have you? I've always thought of it as if the mind is a landscape that's just there, that we're inside. Logi...

I love most of Koons' stuff. But yea, investment is like accounting: it's a bizarre other world. S&P500 futures make about as much sense as a giant ba...

What now?

If you express a proposition you just need to be pointing to some state of affairs. Precision isn't really the issue.

But we imagine that if we had eyes small enough, we would see particles down there. It's not really formless, is it?

You misunderstood. I have never said that.

You keep saying this in spite of protests from both me and Leontiskos that no one has claimed this.

Exactly. The only way I can make sense of Frege's idea of a proposition (a thought) that is disconnected from assertion is to imagine that we're looki...

It means it can be either true or false.

How can it be truth-apt if we don't even know which cat it is?

Exactly. You need context to turn a sentence into a proposition.

Yep. There really isn't any such thing as the Formless. It's just that once you start talking about forms, you have to have something that received th...

How could "the cat is on the mat" be truth-apt? We don't even know which cat it is.

Are you like, presently in a dungeon on trial for heresy?

:up:

I first encountered Heidegger in a book about the philosophy of beauty. Some secondary source told me that Heidegger thought that we experience form a...

So when you look out at the world, are we seeing mind-dependent forms all over the place?

This was in John Perry's book about personal identity, as I recall. It's about the relationship between form and matter (matter being defined as somet...

Couldn't it just be that the force of an embedded thought is a phantom context from which meaning can be drawn? It's not that we're imagining an actua...

If we make the same judgment, we agree on the same proposition. We aren't agreeing on a sentence or an utterance. Would you like to work through the a...

This sounds like a ghost in the machine. Is that what you mean?

:grin: So you're saying it's not the form Bob paid for, but labor costs?

You're saying Bob paid for the form, not the clay. It sounds like you're saying we can separate the two. As you say, the same form can appear with dif...

Did you guys hum the Volga Boatman?

That makes sense. I read this in the SEP article on Lotze (he lived from 1817 to 1881): "The new model of the academic researcher demands the replacem...

I wonder if the impetus for separating content from assertoric force is related to the 'view from nowhere.' It's language that's detached from any par...

Sorry, wasn't trying to be dense. You mean the marbles are identified separately, but the colors, being universals, can merge?

I don't it's a case of ambiguity. You just don't have enough information to know what's being asked. You'd have to go back and get the request clarifi...

I agree. I think Frege would too.

I think abstract objects are products of analysis. We dismantle mind and language use as if we're taking a cuckoo clock apart. We may become so engros...

Maybe we could pursue this in a different thread. It's sort of along the lines of Plato. I'll start one if you're interested.

hmm

I'd have to go with Schopenhauer and say that subject and object are two sides of the same coin.

Abstract objects are things like numbers, sets, and propositions. Mass is a physical property.