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I was speaking about the affect that preventing birth has on people, including other people, as opposed to a single person: the person-in-question, wh...

I don't get how you can acknowledge that the act of intentionally having a child affects people - pessimists and those who value life, you say; but no...

Ok, shall we put it to the test? We could go out, put it to people, and gather feedback, but the results would predicably be in my favour, i.e. it's e...

If every time an antinatalist pointed out suffering, they had to point out joy, would their arguments be less persuasive? I think they're often guilty...

I agree: it does seem that way to you.

How out of touch with reality does one have to be to say that and mean it?

I don't think there's any getting through to @"The Great Whatever". He seems intent on missing the point and sticking to an uncharitable misinterpreta...

I'm saying that it can be worthwhile to have children because there are things in life that are worthwhile, and I'm further saying that there are, and...

You're simply wrong. Firstly, it's not true that the opinions that anti-natalists have on the worth of the lives of living people has nothing to do wi...

Kind of. I think it's more what the cake stands for. Maybe if you told the baker that you were planning to destroy it with a baseball bat in front of ...

I know. I've already said that. It doesn't need to be. I don't know why you keep bringing up these irrelevancies about necessity. I know. I don't make...

That conclusion is false and doesn't follow. Obviously, like I said, they decide the worth of life for everyone alive, and they also decide what the w...

Yeh, or throwing the baby out with the bath water. Indeed. This has already been pointed out to him, yet he persists.

That last sentence is false. They both make the mistake of deciding the worth of the life of everyone, and everyone yet to be, rather than recognising...

In the last UK general election, there were not enough people who voted for the party which I considered at the time to be something akin to the lesse...

Yeh yeh, and all of the great and wonderful things, too. It sure gets boring and tiresome when someone keeps pointing out that the glass is half empty...

Not necessary, but it can be worthwhile. By having a child, one is granting them the opportunity to experience worthwhile things. And, given that most...

1. The 'mediocrity' point is arguable. Life just simply ain't mediocre for everyone all the time. For some notable and renowned people, in particular,...

Yes, no, no. Good result, not so good method.

Big surprise. It's a fallacy of relevance. I obviously don't dispute it, as was clear from the following sentence in which I acknowledged it. It seems...

No, not an enemy to the race. More like a potential and highly unlikely enemy to the race. I don't think it likely that his views will spread to such ...

Pot, kettle, black. I am always at least a little astonished when someone makes this fallacy. That it will eventually be obliterated is completely irr...

You do realise that if we were all anti-natalists, and we all practiced what we preached, then there would be no more art, no more music, no more huma...

You say that as if it were an established fact. It isn't. Sure, they experienced suffering. Some more than others. They also experienced pleasure. Som...

I think that there is a sort of scale. Say, from Fox News to BBC News. I also think that there is a responsibility to do what it says on the tin, or a...

It's a bit of gamble, no doubt. Isn't everything? But it'd be sensible to factor in to the decision-making process what we know about the person; or, ...

You'd lose if I were your opponent. That's for sure. ;) OK, but I take it you don't approve of throwing surprise parties or giving presents. There's a...

I don't think you'd be a very good poker player. Judging by your reasoning, you'd fold every hand, or refuse to even join the game! But that's not a v...

Good point. I am of like mind.

Then that's where they go wrong. It does often seem as though they are blind to, or overlook, that potential.

Exactly. All anti-natalists set up a false dilemma: a life that's not worth living or no life at all.

That analogy doesn't match up. In the former, you speak of a lack of concern, implying recklessness, but in the latter, you speak of a lack of knowled...

Wow. It certainly isn't, at least the way that I see it, which I don't think is unreasonable.

Me too.

Alright. You get the sticks and I'll get the stones. :D

Likewise.

I don't think that you do, though. You oppose it in that way, but in a weaker sense than a strong anti-natalist. You consider the reasons, judge them ...

I don't think that that follows. And you yourself have claimed that you're practically opposed to it, have you not? But anyway, you'd be practically o...

You want me to spoon-feed you? I decline.

And, you know, that big, long discussion that we had prior to that. Pretty sure I said a thing or two on that subject. That wasn't just an empty defle...

@"Wosret" @"Thorongil" @"darthbarracuda" I later realised that I left out the possibility that other members were simply unaware. :D Here: The End of ...

So, no one has picked up the baton from me in arguing against Agustino's anti-homosexual narrative and Victorian morality? I wonder why. (Too far off ...

Your allegation that I haven't done so has not been shown. On the contrary, this discussion is testament that I have shown that they're practically th...

That's a bloody big "if".

Ah yes, I remember now. You deny that, too. Even though some of your comments suggest otherwise. Well, purporting not to be a consequentialist doesn't...

Not sure why you're not sure what my point is. What you said is nonsense, and I explained why. There is no conflict of will either before, at, or for ...

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The relevance of the ideal, or at least the better alternative, is that it plays an important role in determining whether or not your claims are sensi...

It's part of a chain of cause and effect, and @"darthbarracuda"'s point emphasised its indirect and irrelevant nature within a certain context.

I already conceded the point about perfection. But you didn't explicitly address my explanation of what I was getting at: the unachievable ideal that ...