Baden

@"S" In your own words, it's "unlikely if not impossible" your worst case scenario won't happen. So you most likely will support a referendum under th...

Remember my criteria @"S"?: The only difference in our positions now seems to be that you think number 3) alone is justification for rerunning the ref...

Yes, and I still do. =consistency. :wink:

You should go back and read your own posts. You gave the strong impression you were in principle against rerunning referendums in such short time peri...

Well, you can hardly blame others for supporting it either as long as it's not their ideal course of action (it's not mine, for example, I would have ...

Glad to be in agreement I guess.

If we both agree a referendum is in principle desirable given a no-deal scenario then all the principled (anti-democratic etc) objections go out the w...

Let's put it another way @"S", when you (most likely) support the new referendum before the no-deal deadline, will you be supporting something anti-de...

Again, you've said it's most likely you will support a referendum and then you say that supporting a referendum in the same time-frame you are likely ...

Yet you did. Then made a half-hearted attempt to unabandon it. Your position, whatever it is, is now utterly incoherent.

You've said the most likely scenario is the referendum will be justified within a short period (the deadline, is only a few months away): Yet you stil...

Eh, you've already just conceded the principle and agreed that a new referendum would be a good idea: The only difference apparently being you'd like ...

Whether or not to hold a second referendum is up to the government. It is allowed. We're not simply debating a hypothetical here. Sure, but you could ...

Absolutely, and polls show that as a whole the British want another referendum, but some here will no doubt continue to argue that giving the people w...

Excuse the interjection, but @"Ciaran", I think you've made your point. The back and forth beyond that has been deleted. Hope you can all get back to ...

Was caught in spam filter. Now restored.

Was caught in spam filter. Restored. Let's refer to it as a case of artificial stupidity.

For me, I guess he walks that line between pathetic and dangerous that men of inflated self-importance and fortunate political status often find thems...

Yes, I've heard Brexiteers like Jacob Rice-Mug and others say things like "Well, if May just gets rid of the backstop, I'll vote for her plan" as if t...

No they haven't. It takes two sides to negotiate and the EU have flat out refused to renegotiate the agreed text. There may be renogotiations if there...

Right. There we were wasting time arguing ethics on the philosophy forum when we should have been speaking directly to Theresa May about all this.

What's a better adjective than "intelligent" to describe machines capable of doing certain tasks (e.g. calculations) that are analogous to those carri...

@"S" (Besides I said "if" not "if and only if", but I think you know that and aren't arguing seriously).

Er, one of the criteria is cheating. :D

The topic of this discussion is Brexit. I'm giving you the reasons I think a new referendum is justified. Which unsurprisingly relate to Brexit. You f...

My argument doesn't imply that, so again you're wasting my time with nonsense. Every case should be treated according to similar considerations. If yo...

You mean they didn't sign a deal, that there are negotiations now, or that May is not afraid to put it into Parliament? Those are the negations of the...

We're arguing here over whether a new referendum, which is a possibility, is justified. It's obviously relevant to take the cheating in the last one i...

It's not even a referendum. And it should be obvious from the reporting that my criteria don't match up (there's no information on how close the resul...

Obviously, if whatever result you're talking about meets the same four criteria I've just outlined, you can take it I'd support a rerun.

I had a brief moment of charity. I'm over it now. :wink:

I'm not under any obligation to research other cases to try to help you out. If you want to raise a particular case, I'll test it against the criteria...

Before I get strawmanned again, here's the combination of circumstances under which I think this referendum (or any other) may justifiably be rerun. 1...

There's a strawman to add to the red herrings. The logical consequence of arguing this particular referendum be rerun based on the particular circumst...

I'll amend that to where they "mostly" lie. You mean all the expert's forecasts could be wrong and Britain could make money on leaving? That's a hypot...

No. The negotiations finished and a deal was signed. There are no negotiations now. There's a deal that May is afraid to put to Parliament and nothing...

You think that the fact they played with words to give a false impression makes it alright? What money? Every economic forecast says the exchequer wil...

I'm not saying it's black and white either, there are negatives to re-running it, but I'm arguing that it's the less unfair of the two options. Again,...

You can fix a result possibly brought about by cheating by rerunning the process in a fair way. The fact that this means that Cameron would have turne...

Ok, but in terms of the overall question of whether a rerun of the referendum is justified, it doesn't matter where the violation was. They cheated an...

That is a fair point. It might to an extent. It then depends on much weight to give to that. In any case, it's the only sensible objection I've seen h...

So now you've gone from saying Germany would benefit from leaving because poorer countries were taking advantage of it to Germany is taking advantage ...

This is silly. Quote me where I was inconsistent or stop wasting my time.

I explained several times already they were officially found in violation of campaign rules. Fascinating.

Odd then that the Leave campaign focused so much—in what turned out to be a very effective lie—on the money that was spent on the EU and how that coul...

Except it wasn't fair and square. Leave criminally cheated. I think I mentioned that several times. Wtf? Wtf? At least you're no longer claiming Germa...

None of this has to be litigated in a courtroom any more than it has been. Leave has been found guilty of cheating and the government doesn't have to ...

That's what I'm arguing on the basis of, the possibility of a no-deal scenario. May's deal does not have parliament's support and there is no deal B b...

That's an odd charge. The topic of this conversation is Brexit, which is why that's the focus of my posts. I'm not under any obligation in order to ma...

YouGov did an interesting poll where considering Remain, Leave (no deal) and Leave (May's deal) as options, Remain wins on any head to head, but May's...