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Maintaining Love in the family

Thinking November 27, 2020 at 18:58 8600 views 41 comments
I was reading that 80% of marriages end up soon after in divorce and that 10% are unhappy that they are married. I see this as a great tragedy that breaks down 90% of all families. From philosophy, what are some rational characteristics of love? How then could it be possible to keep love from leaving the household? All these questions on love can be discussed on this post.

Comments (41)

Pinprick November 27, 2020 at 20:23 #475072
Reply to Thinking

I think there’s a lot that goes into this, including what “love” looks like in other countries/time periods, so don’t consider these thoughts as exhaustive, but here’s what comes to mind.

1. Tolerance. Everyone you get close to will hurt you, maybe even intentionally. Understanding this, and learning to see people as people, goes a long way to minimizing personal emotional damage in a relationship.

2. Forgiveness. Kinda goes hand-in-hand with 1, but probably needs stated explicitly.

3. Realistic expectations. Love is not the Hollywood or Disney version you’ve been raised to believe it is.

4. Selflessness. You have to realize that the other person’s feelings are just as important as yours. You have no right to try to control or manipulate them, regardless of how bad their actions may hurt you. Either accept it or move on.

5. Patience. Disregard social/religious pressures to marry too early in life. You can’t realistically vow to love your partner for better or worse if you have never seen them at their worst. It takes time to get to know someone, and for people to reveal themselves fully to someone else. It also takes time to heal.

6. Openness. Let your likes/dislikes and needs/wants be known. Your partner isn’t a mind reader.

7. Respect. There should be certain lines that are never crossed. Violence is the most obvious, but also things like not using their vulnerabilities/insecurities against them, demeaning them, or disregarding their opinions/dreams/etc. Personally, I also think simple manners and politeness are important.

8. Sex. I’m not one to advocate for celibacy until marriage, but your infatuation with your partner should be recognized as such so it isn’t confused for love.
Thinking November 28, 2020 at 00:00 #475169
Reply to Pinprick I love the list you made up. These are all good qualities for an individual to have in any relationship. Then, could you answer what properties or characteristics of love that could allow us to understand the way it works?
unenlightened November 28, 2020 at 12:03 #475254
[quote=Ursula K. Le Guin, The Lathe of Heaven]Love doesn't just sit there, like a stone, it has to be made, like bread; remade all the time, made new.[/quote]

And made by hand and muscle and patience, not by machine. If you think love is a feeling you have rather than a labour you work at, there is not much hope for marriage or for child rearing.
Thinking November 28, 2020 at 19:01 #475294
Quoting unenlightened
And made by hand and muscle and patience, not by machine. If you think love is a feeling you have rather than a labour you work at, there is not much hope for marriage or for child rearing.

Can we get a show of hands?
Miguel Hernández November 30, 2020 at 21:47 #475725
Reply to Thinking

There are problems for which there is no solution. Someone wiser than me said that interpersonal relationships are like those established by hedgehogs on a snowy mountain. If the hedgehogs wander away, they will freeze. But if they get too close, they will hurt each other. Love is the deception of nature to force us to reproduce.

Thinking December 01, 2020 at 04:46 #475831
Quoting Miguel Hernández
Love is the deception of nature to force us to reproduce.


if it's is deception then I am surely fooled!
Miguel Hernández February 21, 2021 at 23:58 #501935
Reply to Thinking
-Do you accept Mary in health and in sickness, in wealth and poverty until death do you part?
-Yes, no, yes, no, no.
Book273 February 22, 2021 at 02:07 #501975
Lasting relationships are based on choice. I choose to lay with my wife at the end of the day, she chooses me. Every night, every day. I choose her above all others, she chooses me. simple enough in concept.
Possibility February 22, 2021 at 02:36 #501980
Reply to Thinking The interesting thing about laying out the rational characteristics of love is that it ceases to resemble ‘love’ as we experience it.

I agree that @Pinprick’s list outlines what should be characteristics of all relationships, regardless of whether we classify it as ‘love’. This often leads to sexual compatibility and/or physical attraction seen as the distinguishing feature of ‘love’ within a marriage. I would say that a sexual aspect to any relationship intensifies the implications of the other seven - we don’t have anything to smooth over the sharp edges of our personality or to shield us from the damage we inflict.

For me, the idea of love is pure relation: if we could understand fully how the world works, theoretically speaking, then we could love the world fully. That includes ourselves. But we partition our relation to the world because some aspects may be beyond our capacity to understand - right now, under certain conditions, yet or ever.
Valentinus February 22, 2021 at 02:37 #501981
Reply to Thinking
Love is not a resource one is able to use in this way or that. If you accept it as your only guiding light then who knows what will happen next. Maybe some really terrible things.
Cate February 28, 2021 at 02:05 #503876
Seems like LOVE is tangled in knots? What if in the present and there are so many moments to be present there is love without catastrophe and rumination...Love exists without marriage and marriage exists without love...when self love brings confidence and enjoyment why isn't that enough? Personal boundaries seem more of an issue especially when here is contempt for others peace happiness and LOVE...
Deleted User February 28, 2021 at 09:52 #503983
Love is nothing, non-existence, infinitely undefined
Tom Storm February 28, 2021 at 10:15 #503988
Reply to Thinking Quoting Thinking
I was reading that 80% of marriages end up soon after in divorce and that 10% are unhappy that they are married.


This is not necessarily a bad thing. What is the reason you are dismayed by this?
Thinking March 01, 2021 at 18:31 #504452
Reply to Tom Storm Why is it not a bad thing? The 10% are the people who were not divorced and unhappy... although do check on those facts.
Thinking March 01, 2021 at 18:31 #504453
Reply to TaySan Love is not nothing because it can be seen and felt.
Thinking March 01, 2021 at 18:32 #504454
Reply to Valentinus Love is the principle cause of all things in the Universe it is a resource the is infinite to tap into.
Thinking March 01, 2021 at 18:34 #504455
Reply to Cate There have existed many happy marriages that filled Mans days with love so I do not see your point.
Cate March 01, 2021 at 20:31 #504488
I responded to another post...there might be happy marriages however my post suggests there is and will be love without marriage and love doesn't need to be corporeal desire and it can involve physical intimacy...love needs to be there first and within the person to nurture, respect and have in all relations...if not, then emptiness and grabbing at anything is existence and dissatisfaction as well as discontent and resentment or ressentiment...images of celebrities,.models and empty relationships, and broken marriages without support which creates the dominant IMAGE in my society (can't speak for India, for example) which is predominantly white western capitalism.
javi2541997 March 10, 2021 at 16:20 #508618
Love is a serious mental disease. Plato

Quoting Thinking
Love is the principle cause of all things in the Universe it is a resource the is infinite to tap into.


Personally I disagree. I guess the principle cause of all things is the faith of believing we can change the reality to better.
Love and it’s forms are overrated marketing to be honest...
Deleted User March 10, 2021 at 16:36 #508620
Reply to Thinking To me it's about not blaming my parents anymore. Because it's really the question whether they could have done any better.
Benkei March 10, 2021 at 17:22 #508630
Just this...
Thinking March 10, 2021 at 17:51 #508646
Reply to javi2541997 Life without love has a seriousness to it. It is a heavy weight one has to carry, or like a hypnotic sleep. For one who loves knows many things that the one without does not.
Dharmi March 10, 2021 at 17:58 #508650
From my perspective, material existence is antithetical to love. Marriage is only an institution created to procreate. Since people love to talk about love, but nobody has a clue what it is or what it means, the institution of marriage has dissolved into nothingness.

There's no love in this world. You can only love yourself. If you want love, you need to start spiritual practice. Because you're not going to find it on this planet. You'll find a lot of crap with the label of "love" though, but it's cheaper than the crap you buy at Walmart. At least you'll get something out of that purchase, not so with "love"
Dharmi March 10, 2021 at 17:58 #508651
Quoting javi2541997
Love and it’s forms are overrated marketing to be honest...


Exactly.
Dharmi March 10, 2021 at 17:59 #508653
Quoting Miguel Hernández
Love is the deception of nature to force us to reproduce.


Love is a Platonic Form that exists in the spectral realm, however, in it's imperfect form it takes the form of self-satisfaction, egotism and narcissism while here on the material plane.
Dharmi March 10, 2021 at 18:03 #508655
Quoting Thinking
Life without love has a seriousness to it. It is a heavy weight one has to carry, or like a hypnotic sleep. For one who loves knows many things that the one without does not.


Not a single person on planet Earth knows "love" the way you describe it. Many Sages know love in it's true sense. Sat Chit Ananda. But not in this false sense. It's basically a fraud created by capitalist marketing. There's no content to it. Emptiness.
javi2541997 March 10, 2021 at 18:13 #508660
Quoting Thinking
For one who loves knows many things that the one without does not.


What if give love but I don’t receive it back? Sometimes love is overacting. I guess the properly word here is “respect” because this is the truest cordial representation between individuals. Love can be sometimes so toxic
Thinking March 11, 2021 at 20:51 #509084
Reply to javi2541997 for me in my practice the more bring love into my life the more I listen with my feelings. You could call it intuition or following your heart, and intuition is very intelligent.
javi2541997 March 11, 2021 at 21:31 #509104
Reply to Thinking

I will call it maturity. I understand your point. That period of time where you start accepting or respecting yourself and also the path of life starts having another point of view. Yes, we can call it intuition, because as you said intuition is somehow intelligent.
But... love is not here too. I can’t believe in love but in myself or intuition. I think theses concepts can survive separated from each other.
Thinking March 12, 2021 at 17:58 #509434
Reply to javi2541997 Say Love resides in your heart and it is a great feeling. When you say you are following your heart many mean you are using your intuition. When you listen to your feelings they will express a good deal of information that could take books to describe them in words, kinda like the concept that a picture can be described in a thousand words. When you listen to those feelings it is the intuition... Love just happens to be the greatest among these radiant feelings. Intuition is intelligent in this aspect.
javi2541997 March 12, 2021 at 18:24 #509441
Reply to Thinking

Love is an abstract aspect. Someone live it others don’t. If you are living a feeling related to love congratulations because this is rare to perceive. It looks like a primary perception when you feel it. Everything looks good but love can end up hurting you a lot.
I have not discovered love yet. But I am not searching of it yet because I do not believe in it.
Thinking March 13, 2021 at 07:30 #509739
Reply to javi2541997 It is easy I notice in this day and age for one to not believe in love because there is so little of it to be seen. Mainly due to a lack of material embodiment for Love to be preserved. I recommend creating situations that you can ignite it within yourself or change your environment to more natural settings where the people garden. The plants act as very effective embodiments of their love that are near eternal due to their ability of auto-genesis. I would like to warm your heart with my Love from a distance but I do not know you enough, for you cannot love whom you do not know...
Thinking March 13, 2021 at 07:36 #509740
Reply to Dharmi Sadly that is mostly true but there are people. There are hundreds of thousands of them and many happen to be gardeners. I am one of them. I would like to note that not many wise men are capable of loving. In fact, many try an indifferent approach to life, and when you are indifferent it is as if you do not exist.
Tom Storm March 13, 2021 at 08:44 #509751
Despite all the noise and bullshit and personal failures of people, I think there is a lot of love around - certainly based on personal experience and on what I have witnessed. But many people are so cynical that they are often incredulous of anything sincere. The most bitter ones tend to deny love exists because no one must have it if they can't.


javi2541997 March 13, 2021 at 09:20 #509758
Reply to Thinking Reply to Tom Storm

I get your point. But it sounds so positivism. I do not deny love because I don’t receive it. I just deny it because is an abstract concept created to explain weird perceptions we have about others in our life context. Call it love or whatever but it could end up being so hurtful or toxic because when you are in love with someone you are not being objective with him/her because you are acting blind because of love...
I don’t understand what is beautiful about this.
Tom Storm March 13, 2021 at 10:16 #509766
Reply to javi2541997 I get your point too. Sometimes I think we get hung up on words and definitions when all we need to do is live and experience. Love is a poor word because it has been overused and abused and people seem to be afraid of it.
Thinking March 13, 2021 at 18:51 #509879
Reply to javi2541997 I see your point and I would like to respond to that by saying true love cannot give inspiration to annihilation. It is true that someone can "love" the wrong things at the wrong time but it isn't true love because they are not guided by their heart to love. They are guided by their carnal or selfish interests to "love" the other, which is a debasement to Love.

Reply to Tom Storm It is true that you would have to have a massive speed and purity in thought even just to understand a piece of what Love is and is capable of. Since love's intelligence is highly intuitional and more direct and vastly quicker than slower thinking and rationalizing. Love is, however, Rational and is possible to be understood somewhat by the mind. So it is best, if you can, to take Love as it is and experience it, live it, bathe in it if you must. For no matter how keen your mind is it is impossible to fully understand Love.

I think the fear of Love comes from the lack of some amount of understanding of it and also lack of experience,
javi2541997 March 13, 2021 at 19:07 #509882
Reply to Thinking

Yes. This kind of love is flawed. Then, it also depends in which person we are talking about. Love is so abstract than there are people who will never experienced it. This is why I want to point out that probably love is like a lottery. Those who win the abstract concept of believing in love is amazing and unique.
Probably this is the reason why I do not believe in love. I felt hurt and pain. I don’t want experience that trauma again in my life. Personal decision
Tom Storm March 13, 2021 at 23:34 #509971
Quoting Thinking
t is true that you would have to have a massive speed and purity in thought even just to understand a piece of what Love is and is capable of. Since love's intelligence is highly intuitional and more direct and vastly quicker than slower thinking and rationalizing. Love is, however, Rational and is possible to be understood somewhat by the mind. So it is best, if you can, to take Love as it is and experience it, live it, bathe in it if you must. For no matter how keen your mind is it is impossible to fully understand Love.


That's a claim. I have no way of testing if it is correct. I can only go by what I experience and notice, problematic though that may be. Regardless, I am not making a claim that I fully understand love or even that I understand it a great deal.
Thinking March 14, 2021 at 05:41 #510121
Reply to Tom Storm It is impossible to fully understand it. To fully understand it would be to end it's experience. Completion is a cessation of motion. Likewise, I see no end to how much Love we can enjoy
Thinking March 14, 2021 at 18:32 #510342
Reply to Tom Storm Sorry if I may be difficult to understand. I will try to arrange new combinations for my words so that people like you may understand the truth a little better next time.