Microcosm and Macrocosm

Well crap .

We cannot be sure that the universe exists beyond our mind and senses, and we cannot be as sure that our minds and senses interpret and perceive the outside world correctly, as it really is. However, for billions of years, people have adopted an order in which consciousness and matter are inseparable, just as macro and microcosm are defined, just as each of these concepts is defined in different times and cultures. We are in a reality where nothing can work freely, but man can. So man is more than a particle of nature, but at the same time he has taken in everything from nature.

I mean, really, there is a possibility of there being 10 dimensions in the universe, yet we can only experience 3, if we don't count time as the fourth dimension. Even dogs see the world differently from us, who's to say, that a more advanced civilization can experience more than what we can? Appearance can often be misleading, since our visual system is too limited to accurately process all the information received by our eyes. In rare cases, the brain misinterprets, forcing us to perceive something inaccurately, creating an optical illusion.

t's hard to believe that life, reason and
the connection of consciousness is only a coincidence. Let's imagine three rows, three columns, three
dimensions and twelve edges - A Rubick's cube. What is the mathematical probability of putting it at random? 13.8 billion years - the approximate age of the universe. If we sent someone in the past with a mixed Rubick's cube, and if that someone did one step once a second, the probability of a successful solution would be less than 1%. A Rubick's cube ??can exist in 43 quantimillion positions. It would take 1.4 trillion years to try each without repeating it, and at some point the task would be solved. Would 13 billion years really be enough for the universe to randomly put people together and create the right environment for them? Let's think about the complexity of a person - 103 trillion cells, which every millisecond make sure that the body's systems work in harmony. How long would it take to accidentally create such a perfectly polished system? We are much more complicated
than a rubick's cube , and yet we exist.

.

Quoting Brian the wise

a lot of intelligent people on this forum,

Debatable.

Reply to Gus Lamarch To be completely honest, i was pandering and being nice to get replies, and it's fair to say that i have failed miserably.

Quoting Brian the wise

it's fair to say that i have failed miserably.

First things first: If you want to engage people into your discussion, try to formulate it in a way that attracts the reader's interest so that they feel comfortable arguing against or in favor of your position. In this post you simply threw your question without any basis into why this question is important to you, and without any construction that specifies your point with the question.

And I think it's terrible that you focus only on people's engagement. You have to post discussions about something that really interests you. If the goal is to have readers, this is not how you will get them.

:smile:

Reply to Gus Lamarch Thank you for the pointers, but my ultimate goal was to get some ideas from others for an essay on the subject and then never return here. The reason why my post was so meagre was because i found this subject unclear and perhaps a bit dull and i was hoping others here were enthusiastic about this sort of stuff. I guess what it shows is that i shouldn't half-ass things and expect great things in return.

Quoting Brian the wise

i shouldn't half-ass things and expect great things in return.

If that's what you got from my answer, I'm glad you noticed. :smile:

Quoting Brian the wise

never return here.

Why is that? The forum has its ups and downs but in general it is a good forum.

Reply to Gus Lamarch I don't doubt that the forum is great, but i don't believe i have much to bring to the table.

Quoting Brian the wise

I don't doubt that the forum is great

It is not great, it is what it is. Sometimes good, sometimes really bad.

Quoting Brian the wise

but i don't believe i have much to bring to the table.

If you feel that way, ok. However, the forum is an open place, and being open, any proposition - be it the most intelligent or the most stupid - is welcome. As I said, if you formulated your question more profoundly, people probably would have interacted more.

Reply to Gus Lamarch To all the people i have asked about this subject , even people in my university, all of them told me they have no idea what this subject is. I just think it's an unpopular discussion in general, since it's based on old beliefs and religion.

Quoting Brian the wise

even people in my university, all of them told me they have no idea what this subject is

Being rude and direct, it's probably because they're stupid. The "cultured masses" as they say.

Quoting Brian the wise

all of them told me they have no idea what this subject is.

Here I'll quote yourself:

"i'd like to know how we , as humans and a Microcosm, are similar to our Macrocosm, the universe?"

Your question is very vague and subjective as I already said. If you were more specific, maybe people could answer you, or at least discuss the matter with you. It's like if I simply came here on the forum and started a discussion with the follwing phrase:

"What is Existence"

How should I know, we have been trying to answer this question for more than millenia right now and we still can't answer it.

Quoting Brian the wise

I just think it's an unpopular discussion in general, since it's based on old beliefs and religion.

Just take a look around the forum. Every page has at least one discussion about religion, so no, it's not because of that.

Reply to Gus Lamarch Thing is, i have no idea myself what i'm supposed to write about, the materials i have been given are 2 videos, one is where they compare how much bigger planets are than humans , and the other video is what you'd see if you were high as a kite. And then the title for the essay is supposed to be Human- Macrocosm/Microcosm.

Quoting Brian the wise

Thing is, i have no idea myself what i'm supposed to write about, the materials i have been given are 2 videos, one is where they compare how much bigger planets are than humans , and the other video is what you'd see if you were high as a kite. And then the title for the essay is supposed to be Human- Macrocosm/Microcosm.

Then you have to search it. Make questions about it for you to answer.

Quoting Brian the wise

one is where they compare how much bigger planets are than humans

It seems to me that this brings a similarity between humanity as Being, and the Universe as Eternal. Both Universes within themselves.

Reply to Gus Lamarch

Quoting Gus Lamarch

It seems to me that this brings a similarity between humanity as Being, and the Universe as Eternal. Both Universes within themselves.

I think that there aren't any real similarities, we have evolved in a way that helps us understand our surroundings and feel comfortable where we live, in other words, we adapt , not our surroundings . If we were born on mars , we'd be taller , our skin would be orange and and our bones would be more dense, whereas the universe would still be the same . Although we have free will , we are still bound to the rules of the univerese .

Quoting Brian the wise

i'd like to know how we , as humans and a Microcosm, are similar to our Macrocosm, the universe?

That concept probably originated with Pythagoras about 2500 years ago. He was a sort of mathematical mystic, and numerologist. In his mathematical studies, he noticed that many of the same proportions found in nature were similar to those found in the human body. Hence, the part is like the whole in terms of ideal proportions.

Leonardo Da Vinci embodied the notion of Man the Microcosm in his drawing of the Vitruvian Man, Later, Robert Fludd created his own drawing of a man (microcosmos) surrounded by the Macrocosmos. That same poetic notion is still found in modern versions of Astrology, Alchemy and Sacred Geometry. Even some scientists are intrigued by the idea of cosmic proportions found in mundane nature, such as the Golden Ratio in spiral galaxies and in the seeds of a Sunflower.

Reply to Gnomon I do think it's very convenient that everything in the universe can be explained with just playing around with some numbers. So we are similar because there are proportions in the universe and in ourselves?

Quoting Brian the wise

I do think it's very convenient that everything in the universe can be explained with just playing around with some numbers. So we are similar because there are proportions in the universe and in ourselves?

No. The simple observation of common mathematical proportions at large & small scales is just a trivial fact. But those who make a big deal of it, follow the implication that a single mathematical mind is responsible for the whole universe. Some imagine that "mind" as a creator god, but some imagine the cosmic geometry merely as a universal energy source, similar to "The Force" of Star Wars. So the meaning of the trivial fact depends on how you interpret its significance for you personally. I assume that your "convenient" was meant sarcastically. Yes?

For me personally, the ubiquity of Information, which includes mathematics & geometry & mind & matter, is more indicative of a creative cosmic mind. But that's just my interpretation, not a proven scientific fact. I think it's interesting that Nature, as a whole system, has some parallels with the human mind as an information processor. But I'm not inclined to worship the Great Mathematician. And I don't have any experience with such things as Crystal Power, or Chi Force. So, I'm not a Mystic or New Ager. Not that there's anything wrong with that . . . their respect for Nature as a living organism seems appropriate. :joke:

Sacred Geometry : [i]Many teachings have described Sacred Geometry as the blueprint of creation and the genesis, the origin of all form. Sacred geometry is considered an ancient science that explores and explains the energy patterns that create and unify all things and reveals the precise way that the energy of creation organizes itself. It is said that every natural pattern of growth or movement comes back to one or more geometric shapes.

The molecules of our DNA, the cornea of our eye, snowflakes, flower petals, crystals, a shell, the stars, the galaxy we spiral within, the air we breathe, and all life forms are created out of geometric codes.[/i]
https://destinationdeluxe.com/sacred-geometry-explained-healing-benefits/

Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios & proportions are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html

Reply to Gnomon I wanna hear your thoughts on this though, it might sound like madness, so you know how brain cells look like the structure of the universe? Both of them create a world , one of them creates us the real world and the other one creates our inner world. I thought about the universe being just one big brain for a more advanced being. The big bang could be the shock that a child usually experiences when it's just born. Thoughts can be endless, just like the universe. Our thoughts also expand and happen all the time, just like the universe expands all the time. What happened before the big bang could correlate to the question of what happened before we were born. Scientists speculate that the universe will end when it reaches an absolute zero in temperature, when we die, our bodies also turn cold.

Quoting Brian the wise

it might sound like madness. . . . . I thought about the universe being just one big brain for a more advanced being.

I can relate to the analogy of the physical universe imagined as the brain of a cosmic Mind. That may be how Pythagoras viewed his mystical mathematical world. Of course, his worldview was more poetic than scientific, so I wouldn't take his musical metaphors literally. But, there may have been some wisdom in his "madness". His mathematical theorems are still taught in schools today. :nerd:


Pythagoras : Another belief attributed to Pythagoras was that of the "harmony of the spheres", which maintained that the planets and stars move according to mathematical equations, which correspond to musical notes and thus produce an inaudible symphony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras

Quoting Brian the wise

The big bang could be the shock that a child usually experiences when it's just born

I too, have entertained the notion of the Big Bang as a birthing event. But then, who was the Mother of our world? :cool:

Quoting Gnomon

I too, have entertained the notion of the Big Bang as a birthing event. But then, who was the Mother of our world?

I don't think we can do more than speculate, since there's no way to check for sure. Some don't even think the universe had a beginning, which renders this question futile. I do think that it's weird how something could just not exist, but then again, it's probly because i don't know how it is not to exist.

Reply to Brian the wise
I don't claim to be any expert but I am inclined to think that the solution to your quest might be about looking within oneself rather than to the larger universe.

It is so much easier to proceed from the microcosm of the self initially, corresponding with Socrates' search for self knowledge. I am sure that Socrates' view has been used and abused but I do think that the microcosm is the starting point for understanding the macrocosm.

Quoting Jack Cummins

I do think that the microcosm is the starting point for understanding the macrocosm.

So how does self-knowledge and using the microcosm as the starting point help you understand the macrocosm?

Reply to Brian the wise I think that you have to embark on this adventure to find out.

I have no clear answers and I am a fellow traveller but I do believe that the personal is a starting point, but with many hard lessons.

But who would say that philosophy, personal and collective is easy. We need our own support networks and I feel grateful for this site because it is an arena for philosophical debate and possibly the hardest questions we can experience can be discussed on our mobile devices, so perhaps we are need not be alone as we grapple with the most difficult questions about life.

Quoting Brian the wise

I do think that it's weird how something could just not exist, but then again, it's probly because i don't know how it is not to exist.

Even scientists who accept the Big Bang Birth as the origin of our universe, also accept the old adage that something never comes from nothing, hence some kind of thing must always exist. That's why they have proposed the (hypothetical) Multiverse : a self-existent physical process without beginning or end.

But that description could also fit some myths of a creator god. For the purposes of my Enformationism thesis, I refer to that mysterious metaphysical World-Mother as the Enformer, or the Programmer. That's because everything in the universe --- matter, energy, mind, math, ideas --- is a form of generative Information, which I call EnFormAction. :nerd:

Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page11.html

EnFormAction :
Ententional Causation. A proposed metaphysical law of the universe that causes random interactions between forces and particles to produce novel & stable arrangements of matter & energy. It’s the creative force of the axiomatic eternal deity that, for unknown reasons, programmed a Singularity to suddenly burst into our reality from an infinite source of possibility. AKA : The creative power of Evolution; the power to enform; Logos; Change.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html

PS__To a materialist, Enformationism will sound like madness. So be careful who you mention this to. At least, on a philosophical forum, strange ideas are food for thought.

Reply to Gnomon Have you entertained the idea that we could be living in a simulation?

Quoting Brian the wise

Have you entertained the idea that we could be living in a simulation?

Yes. My Enformationism thesis has a Matrix theme. But, it's just a metaphor. Our common reality is as Real as it gets. :smile: