Should We Fear Death?
This is just a recurrent philosophical matter which does bother me because it seems to be underlying many other problems. I am neither someone who believes in a definite afterlife or has a complete view that this life is finite. I keep an open mind but there is so much fear of death, especially in the current Covid_19 issue that I am questioning the basis of the fear itself.
In mainstream society there is so much emphasis on prolonging life, even if this means a life maintained by all sorts of problems like dementia, inability to walk and the complete loss of independence. I am not against anyone who wishes to remain alive in such circumstances but it I am not sure that I would find such a life desirable. On the other hand, I would not advocate suicide because in most suicide as the repercussions for family and friends are endless. Besides, most apparently bad circumstances pass, giving way to different circumstances.
We do not know how or when we will die but there is so much fear of death in itself that I am simply questioning this deep seated fear, which pervades cultural assumptions.
In mainstream society there is so much emphasis on prolonging life, even if this means a life maintained by all sorts of problems like dementia, inability to walk and the complete loss of independence. I am not against anyone who wishes to remain alive in such circumstances but it I am not sure that I would find such a life desirable. On the other hand, I would not advocate suicide because in most suicide as the repercussions for family and friends are endless. Besides, most apparently bad circumstances pass, giving way to different circumstances.
We do not know how or when we will die but there is so much fear of death in itself that I am simply questioning this deep seated fear, which pervades cultural assumptions.
Comments (36)
Fear is being sold as a commodity by the news and politicians, consumed because people enjoy being scared and enjoy the drama. Surveys I've read indicate that the average person is not afraid of death but really, of course, we're not afraid of death when it's absent. Even just an activity with a remote chance of death is enough, a bike ride down a hill going fast when you're not used to it, the fear can't be stifled by philosophy.
We should fear death. There are good reasons to fear death.
We should fear death. No other emotion is appropriate.
We should fear death. Death is the most fearsome of all.
We shouldn't fear death. We don't die
We shouldn't fear death. There are no good reasons to fear death
We shouldn't fear death. Fear isn't appropriate for death
We shouldn't fear death. Death is not fearsome.
I subscribe to something along the lines of Daniel Kolak's open individualism or Arnold Zuboff's universalism (there is only one universal experiencer which has all experiences everywhere and at all times), and so I don't think the death of this body will mean the end of my experiences, being rather just a temporal boundary on this particular window through which I see part of the world. But even if I were a closed individualist (the default view most people have about personal identity, whether they believe in a soul or afterlife or not, in which each person is a truly distinct subject) and believed the death of this body to be the end of myself, I don't think oblivion is something I should fear, as I won't be there to regret my annihilation. The lead-up to it could be something worth fearing however.
Regardless, I do in fact fear death. And I find it hard to explain exactly why. At the same time, it is sometimes attractive. There is ambivalence. Eros and Thanatos?
Assuming closed individualism, if I could press a button that would instantly end my experiential life without any pain, and would replace my consciousness with an automatic program that would go on to finish my life for me as a P-zombie with nobody else being the wiser, so that I don't have to worry about hurting others, would I press the button? There are times when I would be tempted. But I would hesitate! I have doubts that I could ever go ahead and press it. It would be nice to have such a button in my pocket though, just to know that the option is always within reach should things become unbearable.
It would seem that fear of death is probably at least partly instinctual. Organisms that aren't motivated to struggle to preserve themselves will quickly be selected out.
A book I'd highly recommend is Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death. The fear of death might explain much more of human behavior than we normally recognize.
I second this. :up:
I'd fear a life without death to be honest. Much more could happen. Becoming trapped somewhere, etc.
:death: :flower:
:smile: Hi Proof!
That said, to the degree we can manage our relationship with death, experience seems a more promising methodology than ideas. What we're really afraid of is the loss of the data which makes up "me", our memories, thoughts, ideas, personality etc. That's what death is for us, the absence of data. To varying degrees we can experiment with and experience that death now while we're alive.
Besides, fear of dying is like fear of shitting: it is fleeing the inevitable.
It isn't death specifically that we fear, it is the unknown which we fear the most. If we could be certain of an afterlife where all is merry and well, where everybody gets to go, then you'd probably have a lot less fear, but a lot more suicide. That being said people would feel less hurt by anothers suicide if they knew they were going to a better place and if they knew they would see them there again.
If I shoved you onto a bus and said that we might be going somewhere nice, we might be going somewhere bad and we might never ever stop driving, you'd be terrified. You might even try and get the driver to just keep driving if you believe it is likely it is taking you to the bad place.
Death is nothing to fear, the unknown however, is.
Some say fear is all in the mind. In a way that old adage rings true. Of course, fear and shock can induce a physiological reaction as well ie. anxiety attack, hyperventilation, sweaty palms, trembling, etc. Defense mechanisms to keep one alive and give extra energy to be able to either flee an environment or fight the danger present. Military training teaches you to override this through discipline and attachment to a larger unit/idea- you're something greater than yourself while also being something lesser. Your mission can still be completed even if you don't survive- but it can also fail and other people could die if you give up or give in any time beforehand.
:death: :flower:
There is of course a great deal of speculation about what death is, and thus the question of whether we should fear it. How to proceed?
Imagine there was a special room at a university where we could go to temporarily and safely experience death. It seems that any serious thinker on the subject of death would pause their speculations and go do the experiment. Then they could further refine their ideas from there, based on experience instead of just unprovable theories.
The point I wish to pound is that, if we define death as the absence of data, we can to some degree or another do the experiment through techniques like meditation. And/or we can simply carefully observe our daily life and note those times when abstractions are absent.
If it's true that we can find a taste of death in our normal daily lives if we pay attention, and if we don't wish to do that, then what's the point of a pile of abstract theories?
You mentioned a couple of authors I have not read, who look interesting. I will check them out, although we are a bit limited by libraries remain closed, and I just hope there is no further London lockdown as I don't think many of the bookshops would survive a second full blown lockdown. I do read e-books but do prefer paper books.
I originally started to this thread because there is such a fear of death pervading our culture. However, my initial quest about life after death began when I was a student and got the question 'Is there life after death ?' as an essay title and went on reading on this subject and my views have shifted at various times. I feel that it is the most essential question, perhaps more so than the existence of God, because from a personal perspective, it makes all the difference whether we have one earthly existence or an immortal life. If approached as a philosophical question rather than as part of an established body of religious teachings, it is a big puzzle because we cannot experience death directly.
We have the near death experience accounts but the individuals did not die completely, so they might indicate a possibility of an afterlife but they could have just been dream experiences. If they count for anything they do point to possible dimensions explored in The Tibetan Book of the Dead. However, the Tibetan tradition of Hinduism believed in reincarnation rather one life followed by an immortal existence.
Personally, I would prefer to think that we have many lives because it would give more opportunities for exploring life rather than the limits of one life. But I would not wish to believe it simply because I like it, as the truth is more important than what one would like. Also, there are complications to the idea, such as whether a person could come back as an animal sometimes or, having evolved to the human kingdom, would most likely come back in future lives as another human being.
Having been brought up in a Roman Catholic, and most of my friends are Christians, most of them believe in life after death but are rather vague about this. Within Christian theology there are 2 very different strands of thought: a belief in immortality which was derived from the founding fathers' reading of Plato, and a belief in a resurrection at the end of the world. These two ideas are not necessarily compatible with each other, but I have yet to meet a churchgoers who spends time worrying about this.
As it is, I don't want to spend my whole life pondering the mystery of life after death and not living this one as a result, but I do find it to be a fascinating question. I am not completely convinced that there is life after death but I think it is a possibility. In the meantime, perhaps life and death are two antagonists energies, as Petrichor drew upon, in Freud's suggestion of the conflict between Eros and Thanatos.
Does that mean we should be consumed by it or base all of our decisions off of it? No. Emotions are quick judgements that give us an over all digest of the situation. They are very useful when a bear is intending to maul you, but you need rationality to figure out the best way to handle the situation.
Emotions are an integral part of your thinking brain. In trying to conquer them, some believe we should pretend we do not feel them, ignore them, or crush them. Embrace them. Rationality alone or emotion alone leave you in a much more confused state in life, while marrying them together will leave you able to manage life at your most capable.
It's interesting that so many of us are so sure we know such things.
We can only know what is available to us. We know that the brain is where our ability to think comes from. Take some brain damage, and you're not going to be the same person. Loads of science backs this. We know that when you die, the brain stops working. Anything else is something from the imagination.
You and I will cease to exist Hippyhead. We are no different from the matter that is all around us. It too will change forms, break apart, and join into something new. But you are only "you" when matter organizes into a human being with your particular working brain. The glow from my screen only happens when matter organizes in that particular way. There is no heaven for your brain. There is no heaven for my monitor.
That being said, can we postulate that there is something underlying all of matter on Earth? Perhaps that we are part of some greater living consciousness, or that there is something beyond our observation? Absolutely. But that is not what we can know. Generally, we make decisions about how to live on what we know, not on what we imagine. For all you know, you have one chance at being you before you meet your permanent end. It is best you live your life according to this knowledge, as it would be a terrible tragedy for a person to live on the prediction of a fantasy.
If a religion is an ideal that you live your life by in regards to what is beyond it, I suppose it IS a religion. We can call it the YOLO religion. What do you think?
Technically we probably shouldn't call atheism a religion, but yea, it's a faith based big picture perspective which does have real world implications for we the still living.
I remember hearing a show about suicide on NPR awhile back. The entire show was experts discussing how we should work to prevent suicide. Very good intentions, kinda sloppy philosophy. I couldn't help but hear this message blaring from the show...
Dear person considering suicide: Ok, so your life really sucks, we hear you, but suicide should be avoided at all costs, because the alternative to your sucky life is even worse! We hope you feel better now.
You Only Live Once
I think that it's OK to fear death. It's the one thing it's impossible to recover from. A true point of no return (for our conscience, at least).
Now, regarding "should," maybe that's highly dependant on culture and social environment. People do kill themselves regularly, out of a variety of reasons, so either they weren't afraid or they somehow overcame fear.
Perhaps "should fear" is too debatable to settle on anything. May I suggest "respect"?
I am not sure what asking about respecting death would mean. It sounds like something which would read in an equal opportunities policy. Also, my initial question was not really about fearing death in relation to suicide but about death which will face each one of us eventually.
In response to the issue of dementia I fear that terribly too, because I have worked with people with dementia and it made me so fearful of old age and infirmity.
I am aware that there is already a thread on euthanasia on this site already, but to my way of thinking it is extreme and subject to abuse for political ends.
However, while I think that euthanasia is an extreme but with some exceptions, such as with terminally I'll people who are suffering and wish to die, I think there is an opposite view pervading our culture. That is that life should be extended at all costs and this predominantly our current care system. Personally, I don't want to be kept alive on pots full of medication if I can barely remember my own name, cannot walk or even use the toilet myself.
But who knows whether I would say that if it really happened because I have seen people in extreme states of poor health who seem to cling to life very fiercely. Is it fear of death or the attachment to life in all its pain and glory?
To be clear, I'm not pro-Euthenising ones least favourite child. Just that no one should be imprisoned for mercy, decency, love and compassion.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Agreed. I mean, if you have private health care I guess do what you want. But this idea that it is better to live at all than to live well is, I agree, symptomatic of an unhealthy fear of death, and we shouldn't pander to it.
I am just saying in response to you that the healthcare I worked in was not private at all. The whole emphasis was on critical analysis of any deaths that did occur was mainly connected to managers' fear of the Care Commission inspections. The Care Commission reports were essential for funding.
Now, the Care Commission are floundering with Covid_19, but is it surprising that fear of death is subservient to money. Fear of death is abounding while austere measures are being taken in other aspects of society. Death may be quickened through poverty and homelessness.
That's fear of someone else's death, though. Different kettle of fish. Rather money is the anti-death insofar as those who have the most live the longest as a rule, but while it wins many battles, it always loses the war.
Quoting Jack Cummins
It certainly is.
Fear comes with the equipment. You are alive because of all the ways fear stopped you from from doing life ending stuff. Your ancestors honed this package down to you to on a cellular level. Each one of us is dangerous because of processes one cannot escape regardless of luck of birth or station in life.
Where there is a greater degree of freedom is the matter of expectation in life. Each day we wake up is not death. Whatever we make of that won't matter to what won't be there to witness when we are gone.
So, a lot of the anxiety about death involves agonizing about what we cannot witness. And that flashlight is its own thing, whichever way you want to point the thing.
We all want comfort. But how and whether that happens or not is, by definition, something we cannot give ourselves.
I agree that ,'Each day we wake up is not death' and in most cases it comes as a great relief. Our ancestors and each of us strive, probably instinctual, to stay alive.
Having created this strand I have to admit that I am afraid of death, but I am not sure that it is my biggest fear. I have plenty and I think the top one is becoming blind. But generally one interrelated question is whether death or a life which is truly unbearable. We can descend into our own hellish depths but while alive, in most cases we have some freedom to change outer and inner reality and overcome fear itself.
I am disturbed by my impending demise too. I agree we have some degrees of freedom to live with it or not. In saying we cannot comfort ourselves, I did not mean we could not look for it elsewhere. It is up to a person to try to find happiness but that one cannot give it to oneself through some kind of alchemy.
You might be interested in Unamuno's Tragic Sense of Life. He focuses upon the desire for a life rather than the fear of it ending. There are great passages of anger at the situation in the book. Noted as a response to your response that many different emotions are involved.
For myself, I am interested in how the fear of something i won't experience relates to moments I will. When I am afraid of doing things wrong at work, I have to start and keep working despite those feelings. The expectation of death is not that sort of adaptation. To respond the same way would be to hurry things up.
Slowing down experience is at least a protest to the inevitable.
If I wish to switch off I like on my bed, listening to music. Sometimes I take my books and go out, finding corners to read my books. However, I do try to immerse myself in creative acts, art and writing, to try to transcend fear and make the best of life, which is a kind of alchemy.