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Clock of life, thought experiment.

Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 03:09 8975 views 53 comments
Here's a thought experiment i came up while gazing at the stars today.

Think of yourself as a clock, which has a limited amount of time, depending on it's battery. Once time runs out, clock stops ticking, end of life. Your actions have effect on it, either positive or negative. How should you act in a situation like this?

By benefiting humanity, you increase the chances of getting a new battery, new battery gives you a certain amount of time, until that battery runs out again. Do you benefit humanity enough, that you'll be able to obtain a new battery, before the time of your clock ends?

Comments (53)

Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 03:13 #452289
Quoting Yozhura
By benefiting humanity, you increase the chances of getting a new battery, new battery gives you a certain amount of time, until that battery runs out again. Do you benefit humanity enough, that you'll be able to obtain a new battery, before the time of your clock ends?


Immortality can only be achieved by egoism. You, a human Being, is finite in existence, but your ego is not – as in the meaning of legacy –. Egoism is the only way to exist that eternalizes something finite – like Being – in something infinite– in ideas and in the world outside the individual –.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 03:19 #452293
Quoting Gus Lamarch
Immortality can only be achieved by egoism.


I do agree that human ego is the driving force of humanity, because we are finite, we need to obtain more as fast as possible. That is possible only, because of our ego.
Outlander September 15, 2020 at 03:23 #452295
Quoting Yozhura
By benefiting humanity, you increase the chances of getting a new battery


How so. To benefit others you have to sacrifice something.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 03:28 #452296
Quoting Outlander
To benefit others you have to sacrifice something.


By benefiting others, you're also improving the quality of your life. By sacrificing something for others, you're gaining more back.
Outlander September 15, 2020 at 03:30 #452298
Quoting Yozhura
By benefiting others, you're also improving the quality of your life. By sacrificing something for others, you're gaining more back.


Is that really a sacrifice then or a mere investment? I like the idea. List a few examples for us.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 03:31 #452299
Quoting Yozhura
I do agree that human ego is the driving force of humanity, because we are finite, we need to obtain more as fast as possible. That is possible only, because of our ego.


I would go so far as to say that human nature is that of egoism. The moment we move from the state of Not Being to the state of Being, we become egoists. Existence demands the realization of the individual.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 21:32 #452516
Quoting Gus Lamarch
Existence demands the realization of the individual.


We are at the point, where we're realizing our individuality, but what is the next step? I think becoming an individual being called humanity is the next step for our species. Collect all the knowledge individual humans have obtained and gathering it into a single point. Hivemind is a pretty close term for that.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 21:34 #452519
Quoting Yozhura
Hivemind is a pretty close term for that.


Humanity has idealized this since its beginnings – God.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 21:37 #452522
Quoting Outlander
List a few examples for us


You should look to improve yourself for the sake of humanity, not because of yourself. Find the strengths and weaknesses you have and decide a path, that works for you. You shouldn't look to benefit yourselves, like our current society works, because that causes a lot of problems. When you benefit other individuals with your actions, they will benefit you, because you have been of benefit for them. If we act in a way that is beneficial to others, those benefits accumulate and you will always gain more back, hence you could call it investment instead of sacrifice. Quoting Outlander
Is that really a sacrifice then or a mere investment?


Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 21:41 #452524
Quoting Gus Lamarch
Humanity has idealized this since its beginnings – God.


Indeed, that is the path we've been going towards since the beginning, there is no way to stop it. How fast and how safely we get there, that is something we can affect and should affect. You could say, that the big bang was the first clock to be wound up. We as humanity need to be able to change that battery, before our universe comes to an end.
god must be atheist September 15, 2020 at 21:42 #452526
When you change the batter, the unit is temporarily out of service.

If the unit itself sets out to change its own battery, then it will never happen; it may be able to take out the old battery, but the unit can't put a battery in while it's inoperational due to not having battery power.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 21:45 #452527
Quoting god must be atheist
If the unit itself sets out to change its own battery, then it will never happen; it may be able to take out the old battery, but the unit can't put a battery in while it's inoperational due to not having battery power.


Exactly, You need someone else to change your battery, that is the reason we should always try to work together. By working together, you're increasing the chances of someone, whom you've benefited, to be there to change your battery for you, when the time is nigh.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 21:49 #452530
Quoting Yozhura
We as humanity need to be able to change that battery, before our universe comes to an end.


If we are going to get into astronomy here, I'll already tell you my position on this subject: Humanity will not go beyond our solar system - if it continues to act and think in the way it currently does and has always done -, imagine becoming "One". At the monumental dimension of the Universe - whatever it is - we are nothing.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 21:54 #452533
Quoting Gus Lamarch
if it continues to act and think in the way it currently does


Exactly, that is why we need change. Individuality comes at a price, when your population grows too big. That is the reason we need to become whole again. We started as a whole, which split apart at the beginning. Now is the time, for that to happen again, but this time, we as humanity have to become whole.
god must be atheist September 15, 2020 at 21:54 #452534
Quoting Yozhura
ou need someone else to change your battery, that is the reason we should always try to work together. By working together, you're increasing the chances of someone, whom you've benefited, to be there to change your battery for you, when the time is nigh.


Rght. But when you battery stops, do you get the same identity back when the new battery gets put in? Does your system not go back to factory condition?

It does not necessarily have to go back to that, but according to the metaphor the battery sustains life. Once life stops in you, it can't be restarted. Not in the case of humans, anyway. So... your body may be resurrected, but it will be a different person, and your memories, personality characteristics, abilities, etc. all might be different, not to mention that you won't have the same conscience.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 21:55 #452535
Might start writing a story/book around this subject. I was enlightened yesterday, when i thought this up. It totally changed the way i view myself and humanity. Everything makes so much more sense, once you think of life this way.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 21:56 #452537
Quoting god must be atheist
But when you battery stops, do you get the same identity back when the new battery gets put in?


That is something, that we will have to see in the future. There is no promise, that a battery change wouldn't change your being. It is a large part of yourself as you may imagine.
god must be atheist September 15, 2020 at 21:57 #452538
Quoting Gus Lamarch
At the monumental dimension of the Universe - whatever it is - we are nothing.


Interesting. I always thought that at the monumental dimensions of the Universe, any finite object is nothing. But apparently it's just us? Others are not nothing, compared to the monumental dimensions of the Universe? Would be interesting to hear your point of view on that.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 21:59 #452540
Quoting Yozhura
We started as a whole, which split apart at the beginning.


When did this happen? My knowledge - which I admit to be basic - in biology says that the only point where we "all" were the same was more than 3.5 billion years ago when the first forms of life began to emerge. Humanity - as far as Homo Sapiens Sapiens is concerned - appeared less than 200 thousand years ago, and even then, we were never from a hegemonic culture, or biological race. When you become, you are already unique and individual.
god must be atheist September 15, 2020 at 21:59 #452541
Reply to Yozhura Quoting Yozhura
There is no promise, that a battery change wouldn't change your being. It is a large part of yourself as you may imagine.


No, sir, the battery won't change you. It is simply a power supply. What will change you is that you lose everything at the time of death; and the new you, that is, the body that the new battery brings to life, will have different experiences from the body you first had.

I don't know if you can see that. If not, I can explain.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:06 #452546
Reply to Gus Lamarch
You could say that there was nothing, before our universe began. If this is not correct, it would change a lot. A big bang, the beginning of our universe, that is the moment when everything was whole. Individuality started to split from the whole, creating everything in our universe.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:10 #452547
Reply to god must be atheist
I understand what you're implying. I think this idea could go well with the ouroboros? If your battery is replaced (reincarnation), you might not know of your past time, even though you're the same unit with a different energy source.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 22:11 #452549
Quoting god must be atheist
Would be interesting to hear your point of view on that.


I was referring to humanity's stereotyped concept of projecting itself into the future and controlling the galaxy, bringing democracy to other species and being technologically highly evolved. The most plausible view today is that the entire contemporary society will collapse in the next 100 or 150 years and we will enter a new dark age. But you never know what the future can bring us; it can be much worse.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:13 #452551
Quoting Gus Lamarch
The most plausible view today is that the entire contemporary society will collapse in the next 100 or 150 years and we will enter a new dark age.


Are you knowledgeable of the Great Filter?
god must be atheist September 15, 2020 at 22:16 #452554
Quoting Gus Lamarch
I was referring to humanity's stereotyped concept of projecting itself into the future and controlling the galaxy, bringing democracy to other species and being technologically highly evolved. The most plausible view today is that the entire contemporary society will collapse in the next 100 or 150 years and we will enter a new dark age. But you never know what the future can bring us; it can be much worse.


Thanks. I agree on every point. How does that compare to the monumental dimensions of the Universe, though?
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 22:16 #452555
Quoting Yozhura
You could say that there was nothing, before our universe began. If this is not correct, it would change a lot. A big bang, the beginning of our universe, that is the moment when everything was whole. Individuality started to split from the whole, creating everything in our universe.


I still prefer not to give an opinion on the beginning of the Universe, because the most advanced scientific theories that we have today - such as the Big Bang - bring us at most an "possibly" as an answer.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 22:20 #452556
Quoting Yozhura
Are you knowledgeable of the Great Filter?


Yes.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:21 #452557
Quoting Gus Lamarch
the most advanced scientific theories that we have today - such as the Big Bang - bring us at most an "possibly" as an answer.


Exactly, no matter how much we hypothetically think of the problem, our technological advancements aren't enough to determine what is life and our universe.

However, in my opinion, we should start thinking of all the possible futures and act towards the best one. Technology advances at an exponential rate, which means, how many more folds do we need?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmFMJC45f1Q

Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 22:21 #452558
Quoting god must be atheist
How does that compare to the monumental dimensions of the Universe, though?


The enormous scale of the Universe cannot be compared. We like to pretend that we can achieve this greatness of it.
god must be atheist September 15, 2020 at 22:23 #452561
Quoting Gus Lamarch
The enormous scale of the Universe cannot be compared. We like to pretend that we can achieve this greatness of it.


Aha. Okay.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:23 #452562
Quoting Gus Lamarch
The enormous scale of the Universe cannot be compared.


It might be possible in the future, string theory highly suggests of multiverses. Once we find another one, we can compare them. Then again, theory works, until it is proven wrong.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:29 #452566
Quoting god must be atheist
the monumental dimensions of the Universe


Could you open what this means, I'm not knowledgeable of the term, thanks.
god must be atheist September 15, 2020 at 22:32 #452568
I believe @Gus Lamarch used it, I just quoted him. Please ask him instead of me, seeing it is his expression, not mine.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:35 #452571
Quoting Gus Lamarch
We like to pretend that we can achieve this greatness of it.


Ah yes, i'm understanding it a little bit more. Isn't this what the large hadron collider is for? To learn more about our universe, because we know so little?
BC September 15, 2020 at 22:44 #452582
Quoting Yozhura
Think of yourself as a clock, which has a limited amount of time, depending on it's battery. Once time runs out, clock stops ticking


Here you want to pose cosmic questions and you haven't got the clock right. A clock powered by a spring goes "tick tock" as the escapement meters out the power wound into the spring. A clock powered by a battery (LCD display) is silent, or if it the little motor turns 'hands' it might make a clicking sound, but no tick tock.

Quoting Yozhura
Exactly, no matter how much we hypothetically think of the problem, our technological advancements aren't enough to determine what is life and our universe.


How can we understand the universe when clocks baffle us?

However, I want to be wound up regularly, giving me another crack at showering humankind with the blessings of my fecund mind. Hey!!! I'm 74; get over here and wind me up; time is running out!
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:47 #452585
Quoting Bitter Crank
you haven't got the clock right.


Is the definition of clock wrong in my experiment, or can you think of something multiple ways? Once you give enough context for something, you can paint a picture, even though it could be painted in another way.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 22:49 #452586
Quoting Yozhura
Isn't this what the large hadron collider is for? To learn more about our universe, because we know so little?


That's why I said that the future can be completely different than we hope. It could be much worse.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:49 #452588
Reply to Gus Lamarch

totally agreed with, what you said there.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 22:57 #452593
Quoting Yozhura
Technology advances at an exponential rate, which means, how many more folds do we need?


If that is true, humanity as organic beings will not be the future.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 22:59 #452595
Quoting Gus Lamarch
humanity as organic beings will not be the future.


This is the most probable conclusion, or that we are in a simulation. You can think of the folds as years, we're at a point, where every year will bring huge changes and those changes can't be imagined.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 23:01 #452597
Quoting Yozhura
we're at a point, where every year will bring huge changes and those changes can't be imagined.


I still think we are going to fall in the near future.

Quoting Yozhura
or that we are in a simulation.


If this is true, whats the meaning of this simulation? If there are creators, the simulation hypothesis could be considered a theist hypothesis?
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 23:04 #452599
Quoting Gus Lamarch
I still think we are going to fall in the near future.


Agreed.

Quoting Gus Lamarch
whats the meaning of this simulation?


We as humans are already simulating universes in many ways, our technology just isn't advanced enough to create simulation that is indistinguishable from reality, but at some point that will be the fact. Unless we can prevent our extinction before we're able to make one. The chance of us being the base reality is highly improbable.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 23:05 #452600
Quoting Yozhura
The chance of us being the base reality is highly improbable.


Quoting Gus Lamarch
If there are creators, the simulation hypothesis could be considered a theist hypothesis?


Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 23:07 #452602
Quoting Gus Lamarch
the simulation hypothesis could be considered a theist hypothesis?


That is what i think at least, not sure if it's a correct way to think. If someone can prove it otherwise, that is what i believe.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 23:12 #452606
Quoting Yozhura
That is what i think at least, not sure if it's a correct way to think.


It is the correct way to think.

Concept of God:

"The sole Supreme Being, eternal, spiritual, and transcendent, who is the Creator and ruler of all and is infinite in all attributes"

If we are in a simulation, we can guarantee that there is a creator, or creators, and that they would therefore be God. Finally, the simulation hypothesis is necessarily theistic because it believes that our Universe is the creation of some other higher being.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 23:17 #452609
Quoting Gus Lamarch
If we are in a simulation, we can guarantee that there is a creator, or creators, and that they would therefore be God. Finally, the simulation hypothesis is necessarily theistic because it believes that our Universe is the creation of some other higher being.


God is something we ourselves have defined, once we made the hypothesis, that simulation is a possibility. We created a god. Everything we can't understand is defined as a higher power, a god. But the question still remains, is there a supreme god among all the gods, that we've created?
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 23:21 #452611
Reply to Gus Lamarch
Quoting Yozhura
is there a supreme god among all the gods, that we've created?


Let me quote myself for a bit, If there always has to be a god. Wouldn't even the highest of being, the highest of all gods, still have a god for himself, even if he is the actual God of everything.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 23:23 #452613
Quoting Yozhura
But the question still remains, is there a supreme god among all the gods, that we've created?


We are trying to answer this question for more than 5.000 years. And at least until now, no one has any clue...
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 23:24 #452615
Quoting Gus Lamarch
at least until now, no one has any clue...


Exactly, quite interesting isn't it.
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 23:26 #452618
Quoting Yozhura
even if he is the actual God of everything.


If he is all-powerful, omniscient, and omnipresent, he would not need a God, because he already is the maxim of Being. He is but he is not.

Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 23:27 #452619
Quoting Gus Lamarch
If he is all-powerful, omniscient, and omnipresent, he would not need a God, because he already is the maxim of Being


Even if that was the case, wouldn't that God want to create a higher entity than himself?
Gus Lamarch September 15, 2020 at 23:30 #452622
Quoting Yozhura
higher entity than himself?


I don't think so. This discussion in leading nowhere, so I'm out. Thank you for your time.
Yozhura September 15, 2020 at 23:39 #452626
Quoting Gus Lamarch
Thank you for your time.


Thanks for your time as well.