What happens after you no longer fear death? What comes next?
I've been pondering death quite a bit, as usual. It is a constant thought of mine, partly because I never expected to live a long life and have faced it quite a few times. The compulsive thoughts are not due to fear, but instead a loss of what to do next, and a curiosity in the loss of fear to be some sort of abnormality that would effect optimizing function and habits.
One could argue "suicide," but I find this lacking in reason. What reasonable argument could be made for suicide? There is no reason for me to commit suicide; because there many reasons to live.
Loss, dying, death, persist and continue, as a cycle. I would not be surprised if I myself, am dying.
I can comfortably say I no longer fear death or dying, and am feeling the inevitable "spiral". There are still, however, many people I recognize how death fear manifests within their life, lifestyles, and behaviors. Many do not understand why I behave in the manner that I do, but it is only because I am filled with a bland existence in the beauty of it all. They say I cannot see the beauty of life, but it is all I see, and there all there is, because there exists no fear of death or leaving it.
There is a silent peace of mind; but no one speaks of the blandness to follow. I've taken to nature/beauty, the arts (creation and appreciation), music, and more to distract myself now not from "death fear," but from blandness and boredom.
Others have said a feeling of impulsivity and dangerous/reckless behaviors typically follow, but I feel the exact opposite. I felt the desire for "you only live once," activities when I was attempting to find life, I was severely disconnected, attempting to connect to a liveliness. I was not at peace, and not connected to life as I am now.
My main question is for those that do not fear death or dying. What comes with the peace? Is there anything to follow?
One could argue "suicide," but I find this lacking in reason. What reasonable argument could be made for suicide? There is no reason for me to commit suicide; because there many reasons to live.
Loss, dying, death, persist and continue, as a cycle. I would not be surprised if I myself, am dying.
I can comfortably say I no longer fear death or dying, and am feeling the inevitable "spiral". There are still, however, many people I recognize how death fear manifests within their life, lifestyles, and behaviors. Many do not understand why I behave in the manner that I do, but it is only because I am filled with a bland existence in the beauty of it all. They say I cannot see the beauty of life, but it is all I see, and there all there is, because there exists no fear of death or leaving it.
There is a silent peace of mind; but no one speaks of the blandness to follow. I've taken to nature/beauty, the arts (creation and appreciation), music, and more to distract myself now not from "death fear," but from blandness and boredom.
Others have said a feeling of impulsivity and dangerous/reckless behaviors typically follow, but I feel the exact opposite. I felt the desire for "you only live once," activities when I was attempting to find life, I was severely disconnected, attempting to connect to a liveliness. I was not at peace, and not connected to life as I am now.
My main question is for those that do not fear death or dying. What comes with the peace? Is there anything to follow?
Comments (38)
Does the boredom cause sadness in you? It doesn't for me all the time, but I have depressive states, which is where nature, arts, etc.. come in. Nothing much else gives or brings me any form of joy that is not simply fleeting.
There isn't this great burden, this urgency to accomplish, you are ready to accept the end and thus can focusing on just living. Death is a clean slate, wipes clean all success and failure, all joy and misery, to nothingness. Meaning is meaningless but you have one life to live, so live well but live free.
If you cease to identify with the little ego then you are free to explore the full extent of life. Worrying about the shortness of one lifetime just takes energy away from the appreciation of the expanse of the collective life. You are part of a process. The material bits change, but the symbolic elements continue to grow and evolve.
Here I was completely happy, and at more peace in my life then I had ever been. I woke up enjoying each day, doing what I wanted. Yet a part of my mind nagged at me. "Shouldn't you be trying to plan for something else next?" I wondered if it was laziness. But then I just realized my mind was still in the mode of "next goal", because I had been in it so long. Like you, I enjoy life, and do things which enrich my day. Am I "bored"? I'm not. If I feel bored, I do something which eases that boredom. I don't particularly fear death, because I've accomplished everything I've wanted to. Still, I do get flashes of fear if I think about the end. So perhaps I don't quite fit your experience.
But what I do have, is a sense of peace, and no worry about what I'm going to be having to do for the future. I don't think about what comes next. I just live and enjoy life. So few people have that in life, it was my goal, so I learned to love it and appreciate it without worrying about what comes next. Life will come, and I will handle it. Death will come, and I will handle it. For now I can be a rare human who has found their heaven on Earth, and can enjoy the rest of their days, savoring each moment until the end. The goal of life is not to always work towards the next thing. The goal of life is to find the place of the present that makes us fulfilled, happy, and good.
Very interesting premises here. The beauty in life is all you see, yet you don't seem to have any explicit attachment to it. I gather you've had a rather pleasant existence. Nothing you'd like to get done, people you'd like to look after, causes or purposes you'd like to help champion or at least contribute to.
What do you care about in life, OP?
I may or may not be your intended audience. I don't "fear" death or dying per se as much as I would view it like getting caught in bad weather on the way to somewhere important. I would seek to avoid it when possible with a high degree of care. And would be rather annoyed in the process. At present at least. Crap to do, you know.
It would be like measuring a small curve on a football. If the Universe has no limitation, then i suspect we dont either, that we are eternal.
Being eternal means all is mundane, even genocide. At 63, i can attest to life being a constant repeat, of the same thing repeating over and over. The challenge there is to change it. Changing yourself is a mountain to climb.
So death becomes a fruitful forgetting, and birth a new challenge to improve yourself, over and over, because being human is a low form of existence. I dont know that for sure, but it must be. Yes i am religious, there has to be a god, without one life is surely horrendous.
There has to be something wonderful somewhere, or as with the expression of evil, its all a waste of time, or no time. How you spend eternity is up to you. I am seeking the garden of Eden without the serpent.
What do you mean? I am not worried about the shortness of life and appreciate life very much.
Thanks for the response. This is exactly what I feel. But living seems to consists of various behaviors and activities that are molded specifically around death fears that I do not really care to be apart of.
Personally, as opposed to having a "bucket list", I have a kind of compulsion to be better off today than I was yesterday, I start to feel depressed when I feel like nothing is changing. Perhaps instead of searching for events, you could involve yourself in a process. Build something, improve at something, watch something grow. Life shouldn't feel like you're just standing still, even though the road you're on leads to a dead-end, you still need to walk the walk.
I'm 26 and don't necessarily feel there is a next. The next isn't a compulsive thought, I suppose. The goals I once set now seem trivial and unnecessary. There is no need to be ambitious and I do not feel a lack of contentment or unease to do anything outside of what I feel necessary to do with the occasional hobby, for instance. A bulk of my free time is spent in this way.
Quoting Philosophim
This is interesting, does constantly "easing" the boredom itself feel like a routine? Do you have an awareness of your distractions to distract from the boredom? (Apologies if that doesn't make sense).
What fleeting fear I feel in regards to death is more so not wanting to be in pain at the moment, not necessarily a fear of dying, the end, or death itself. I guess my boredom is somewhat existential than immediate. I fill up my time with things that enrich my life but it is only for ethical reasons. I've lost all sense of ambition, but it isn't a bad thing to me.
There are still things I would be curious in accomplishing, such as going on to get my JD and pass the bar, but I don't see why I would.
What comes next is unknowable, but different religions & cultures have imagined a variety of sequels to our "brief candle", some good, some bad : the grave; gloomy Hades; non-existence; eternal existence in Heaven or Hell; punishment for sins during life; alternative afterlife as ghost; sequential lives in various animal bodies; transference into a new human body; promotion to ruler of a new planet or world; a new role in a parallel world or astral plane; and so on, ad infinitum. Hence, your attitude toward death may depend on how you envision the afterlife. Some may dread eternal torture, or look forward to an afterlife of bliss, or simply accept whatever happens with equanimity.
Regarding "what to do next", I'd say that if you can plan your afterlife like a European Vacation, or Mediterranean Cruise, you should start by making reservations. Or, if you have lived an unworthy life of egregious sin, it's time to "get right with god" --- whatever you conceive that to be. But if the after-death is not under your control, there's no need to worry about it : whatever will be will be. In my case, as I approach The End, I simply assume that the Afterlife will be similar to the Before-life : nothingness. So, I have nothing to worry about, nothing to fear, nothing to plan for. Is that attitude "abnormal"? Since I was raised as a fundamentalist protestant Christian, it is indeed. :smile:
Compulsive Thoughts : https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/intrusive-thoughts#causes
Bearing in mind death is the end of life- which is the real death? One that can be experienced and witnessed here and now via pessimism or a simple unknown? You tell me. More importantly, you decide for yourself.
Thanks for the response. What do you mean by explicit attachment? I am happy and appreciative of being alive, but there isn't an explicit attachment (assuming I know what you mean by that), to life, beauty or living. I don't see why there would need to be.
Not exactly. In fact, my life has been mostly unpleasant and negative experiences since childhood. It's then where I established a lot of my unease was a fear or lingering anxiety of death, dying, and this fact. I set it as something to overcome, and overcome as quickly as possible, since these are inevitable things and if I were/am to live long I do not want to constantly return to or live by this fear. Being forced to face and look death in the eye myself as assisted some.
Quoting Outlander
Good question. I do care about others, nature, arts and beauty. I would say animals, but I find it difficult to form attachments to them as I do the other things.
There are more superficial things I care about that I shouldn't, and I'm actively working on, or attempting to care a lot less.
I appreciate your response. I don't seek to avoid death or dying, I'm not sure why I would and don't feel a desire to.
I do seek not to hurt or harm myself or others. I find that irrational, there is no reason to harm or hurt myself or others.
Haha, thanks for the honesty.
I am fascinated by those who are older that seem have to grown content or fond in this. Or have at least, learned how to managed that feeling of repetitiveness. How would say this repetitiveness has e/affected you over the years? Is it now an enjoyment you've found?
What is life like now for you, how do you view it versus when you were younger?
No, it does not feel like a routine. Boredom to me is not something I distract myself from. It is an indicator that I need to stimulate my mind with something new. I do understand what you mean though by "doing something to distract from boredom". Sometimes when I'm programming, I'm bored. At those moments I play some music, or some type of distraction. But that is only at work, and rarely on my free time.
My hobbies are often entertainment or thought that is new. I enjoy writing philosophy, reading the news, and playing new video games. For me, I have to be "doing" something. Passively taking in things or repetitive chores quickly wear me out. And at that point, I simply stop doing them. I only tolerate boredom at my job, never boredom in my own life.
But, I also know exactly what I enjoy on my free time. Perhaps you need to shake things up a bit. Get out of your comfort zone a little. The other thing is you could be depressed. Depression is not sadness, it is the absence of all motivating emotions. When nothing brings you any emotional joy, dread, or anything in between, that is a sign. Nirvana is not actually heaven, it is often times a grey hell.
Finally, it could be that you are re-evaluating what others have imparted to you as important, versus your own sense of what is important. As we are raised, many things are pushed upon as as "valuable". Upon spending a few years having to actually live the life we put forward, many of us realize that this "valuable" thing might be valuable, but not to us.
You may be concerned that certain things others consider valuable no longer has any hold over you. That is not a loss of ambition. It is gaining your own perspective on what is valuable to yourself, and what is not. That is where true freedom lies, and the chance to pursue a life that is not one of boredom, but one of fulfillment.
Thanks for taking the time to write that out, Gnom. It was pretty poetic to read. I do find it interesting how all others deal with this, from reincarnation into animals or nothingness, so my intended audience is for everyone. How has nothing to fear, worry about, or plan for manifested in you? Did/do you also experience the peace of mind?
This portion here is how I feel. I've been irreligious since I was 18 and was able to leave Christianity and the church for numerous reasons, e.g., after my own studying and research. I am godless, and content on this, so I do not believe there to be an afterlife. And if there is any possibility of an experience to be had after death, it would be similar to before life. This isn't something I fear and doesn't bother me at all.
Waiting.
Waiting for death.
Once people don't have much if anything to live for, they cannot live the life they used to, then they can really say that they are totally OK with dying. Usually it comes with when your companion in life and closest friends have already died and one can see that you really aren't needed by the younger generations. These people rarely contemplate suicide, they just wait.
Jeez. So there was no point in living other than selfishness. Sorry for other people who bring them joy. Same thing. Meanwhile plenty of other people find joy in helping others and yeah perhaps themselves in the process. I suppose the selfishness aspect cannot be avoided. Still. One looks better than the other.
Oh you think that people that are totally alone are selfish or what?
Jeez.
As I earlier said, if you are important for others, if you have some role, if you have something to do, that gives life purpose. If people find reason for life, you might not be scared of death, but you surely won't be indifferent about it. Many people will say they aren't afraid about death, but they surely aren't indifferent.
Funny you mention this. I just got back from a nature walk. I try to walk and get out into nature daily, visit parks. I grow flowers and vegetables, and do indoor and outdoor gardening as a hobby and lifestyle choice for good eating; I love to watch things grow. I recently built an art desk to better work on my arts.
I've also recently beat a game, and the list goes on I suppose. I think maybe I have given the impression that I do not do anything.
I enjoy my hobbies and free time very much, but I do recognize them as distractions from a certain blandness and boredom that comes with having not much to fear; especially not death.
I suppose it is the end that we all endure, and there's nothing left to do but "wait" for death as another user said. I simply cannot be engrossed in hobbies all the time. Sometimes I must sit still, sit still and think. Passively observing and taking in things has never bothered me. And then in this silence do I feel it. The option is to sleep. I don't necessarily think there is a problem to fix, only things to discuss regarding this reality and curiosity how others deal with it.
C'est la vie.
Quoting Philosophim
I do have chronic depression since childhood, but I've never found anything to alleviate it. Even with exercise, healthy living, hobbies, helping others and living a (mostly) ethical and frugal lifestyle, and taking numerous forms of anti-depressants and stimulants it persists.
It doesn't bother me, it is just something to live with at this point. I can override it when I want to motivate myself. It is genetic, non-suicidal and without cure.
Quoting Philosophim
Thanks for giving some perspective with this. This could be it. What most people value, I tend not to. I just want a frugal, quiet life until death with minimal to no ambitions.
Thanks for the response. I really appreciate it. Maybe this is what peace is like. Haha. I'm currently working through three books. They're all philosophical, but it takes me some time to get through them because of the density of information.
I am not religious and don't think I'd ever have an emotional need for religion, the supernatural or anything of that nature. I'd prefer to keep clean of that sort of stuff, if this is what you call the next level. I do not shy away from the torture, genocide, gore, or things of those nature and do indulge for fascination's sake in sporadic doses to remain grounded.
Are you saying hell is far worse than death? If I believed in Hell as an inevitability, I would treat it similar to death and seek to overcome this fear of it as well.
Sleep. In my late twenties I lost any shred of ambition I'd had and for no reason other than I felt like I was wasting time today (mostly) 'living for tomorrow'. So then I learned to focus experientially on each day as a journey from waking to falling asleep again, still making and seeing-through my practical plans, yet without racing through my days like a tourist or commuter with tunnel vision bent on just going from A to B to C ... and back to A. My goal each day became the same: avoid whatever diversions or distractions would trouble my health, my calm and my easy sleep. More often than not, now in my fifties, I wake up on the right side of the bed and exhaust myself with full - not necessarily busy - days so that easy "sleep comes like a drug" (as the song says). Bouts of boredom & misery unavoidably come too, of course, and I endure them attentively.
"To sleep, perchance to Dream."
:death: :flower:
Hey, thanks for the response, as usual. :eyes: You may have an idea of who I am (broken silence).
I have somewhat come to the similar conclusion that sleep is the only option left. When you are faced with the peace of mind, and also a certain blandness, for me, the only break from the boredom is to sleep and I suppose pass time. It is not so much that I have an absence of things to do, but that I feel an awareness to these activities being a distraction for the reasons as to why I do them.
The fleeting boredom and inevitable miseries are not problems to fix or anything I strive to necessarily rid of. I've made peace with whatever is to come.
Could you care to elaborate? Are you suggesting that those with death fears are not necessarily "living," or that you simply carry on?
Most of my life I had no fear of death, and was also a generally happy person; during a time when I was unemployed and living in a tool shed next to my dad's trailer, someone once asked why I was in such a good mood that day, and I answered simply that I had nothing I needed to be worrying about right then.
As I got older I started worrying more and more and further and further into the future, and I considered this a wise, pragmatic thing. Then last year I was struck for no particular reason with an existential crisis during which I could rarely ever tear my mind off of fixating about the inevitable death of the universe as a whole, not just myself; but myself too, and every other person, animal, etc. (I started being vegetarian then too, because I couldn't stomach food when it reminded me of death; I could barely stomach food at all anyway, from the anxiety).
Part of getting over that crisis was just physiological, which is what I expect brought it on, but another part of it was learning to accept that the future is largely unknown and uncontrollable, and that there is an important balancing point between doing the things you can do, and accepting the things you can't do anything about.
I stopped (for the most part) fixating on the largely uncontrollable high probability of some kind of eventual death at some point, and instead focused on, first, doing whatever things within my control that there were to do to maximize the length and enjoyment of my life, and then, once I had done the things I could do, just enjoying the present moment as much as I can. (E.g. I started doing nature photography while hiking, as a way of drawing my attention to things of beauty around me).
Beyond enjoying myself now, and doing what I can to prolong enjoyment as much as possible, there's a big fuzzy future where I don't know what will happen or what I can do about any of it. And there will always be. Even if we cure aging, go 100% solar, build a Dyson sphere, starlift all the stars and fit them with stellar engines to build some unfathomable contraption to harness all the energy stored in the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy, and then in the uncountable *illions of years that that buys us, figure out how to tap dark energy to perpetuate life forever in principle -- there are still always unknowns. And we can't sit paralyzed by them, or else we might, if we are lucky, spend eternity perpetually staring into the abyss of the unknown future that we will never fully illuminate.
I admire your spirit. All I wanted to do was inform you that death isn't the biggest threat there is. All things being equal, it is but, the notion of hell as an eternity of pain, the feeling of heightened dread it brings on, suggests to me that death, under certain circumstance, isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Does suicide ring any bells?
I don't know you and don't pretend to, it's just that you said that activities and behaviours in life are formed around death fears, though I would say something like gardening clearly isn't. Perhaps you are giving certain types of people too much credit? Your characterisation of these "activities" and "behaviours" in life may be lopsided?
Honestly, for me, after accepting the possibility and eventuality of death, I stopped thinking in these terms. I think that when one truly accepts and comes to terms with their mortality then they will stop thinking about death. As opposed to thinking about how death doesn't bother you when it doesn't bother you, you won't be thinking about it anymore.
The reason I advocated processes is that if we are looking at fear as a motivator - for instance, the need to complete things before death. Then it seems pertinent to talk about other motivators, most of which come from being involved in a process. Events, particularly ones you aren't excited about, are not good motivators. You do the activity, it ends, you find the next activity - that is boring and boredom is the motivation here. You only do the next activity because doing nothing is boring. Gardening and art are good but do you feel like you're good at these things, do you want to be better? Do you see yourself in a positive light due to your skill at these things? Because without that, these activities just become something to do, with not great meaning or importance. It can suck to be motivated by just boredom all the time, boredom and necessity. I've been through periods like that and it always made me feel depressed and longing for meaning.
I say "you" a lot but I really just mean "one", a person, and not you specifically.
EDIT: I do want to note, you said that you are young but have been close to death and didn't expect to live a long life. I doubt many posters can relate, I can't relate and honestly, it is quite normal for you to be thinking about it more than the average person. I forgot about that when I was writing this comment, just take it as a message to myself rather than to you, as these are things I have thought to myself in the past as well.
If you entered counselling, it would be interesting to see where those things led. Are you angry, or stuck? Depression can be anger turned inward, most of it probably is. Look inwardly and be honest with yourself.
Trying to understand problems in life is not only an intellectual exercise, its an emotional one. To answer your question, life is one thing after another, whether it becomes Lasagne or salt is something else. Keep an emotion diary, identify what makes you unhappy, then begin to change it. One measure of intelligence is being able to solve your own problems, but the first hurdle is emotional, to accept it exists at all.
It took me many years to deprogram my youthful propagandizing to fear death without God's seal of approval. Other than the nagging question of losing a one-way ticket to heaven, I've never been much of a worrier about future events that I have no control over : que sera sera. Instead, my "peace of mind" probably results from an innate attitude toward Life & Death that is similar to Buddhism. I'm not talking about the various Buddhist religions, but the philosophical core of the Buddha's teachings regarding the mysteries & uncertainties of life. His precepts tended to be rational & objective instead of the emotional & subjective approaches of traditional religions. His key to peace on earth is not political activism to gain control over mass government, but to focus on gaining control over your "Self". Toward that end, he recommended the dispassionate notion of "no-self". By observing your inner neurotic feelings of Fear, Anger, and Anxiety objectively, you may learn to manage your irresistible urges and unconscious motivations. When you no longer "suffer" from the self-abuse of out-of-control feelings, you may begin to "experience peace of mind".
I should point out however, that while I am not religious, I am still "spiritual" in the sense of an interest in the metaphysical aspects of reality. I have developed my own personal worldview, to replace the abandoned religious mindset of my upbringing. And, ironically, the core axiom of that science-based overview of reality is what I call "G*D". That hypothetical Cause of Reality is not imagined as a personal Father-in-heaven or Lord-of-Lords, but as the Abstract Force behind the Creation and upwardly-mobile Evolution of our imperfect, but progressing, natural world. That rational conclusion doesn't inspire chop-licking anticipation of personal salvation for My-Self, but it does contribute a positive rationale for my day-to-day peace-of-mind. :cool:
G*D :
[i]An ambiguous spelling of the common name for a supernatural deity. The Enformationism thesis is based upon an unprovable axiom that our world is an idea in the mind of G*D. This eternal deity is not imagined in a physical human body, but in a meta-physical mathematical form, equivalent to Logos. Other names : ALL, BEING, Creator, Enformer, MIND, Nature, Reason, Source, Programmer. The eternal Whole-of-which-all-temporal-things-are-a-part is not to be feared or worshiped, but appreciated like Nature.
I refer to the logically necessary and philosophically essential First & Final Cause as G*D, rather than merely "X" the Unknown, partly out of respect. That’s because the ancients were not stupid, to infer purposeful agencies, but merely shooting in the dark. We now understand the "How" of Nature much better, but not the "Why". That inscrutable agent of Entention is what I mean by G*D.[/i]
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page13.html
Why Buddhism Is True : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Buddhism_Is_True
This is merely one aspect of coming to terms with reality. However, release from this fear gives one the ability to move beyond the false enticements of idealism's abstractions. In their crudest expressions these take the form of celestial utopias, heaven, eternal rewards, new worlds, end of suffering etc. In more sophisticated expressions idealism takes the form of universal logical structures, private property, social hierarchy based on wealth or power.
I believe it was Mark Twain who said, 'it's a strange thing that people who have had to live should be afraid to die.'
What you are speaking of is only the smallest beginning of existential orientation. There are other things of which you must become aware, like the fact that your life is processed through a social structure, this structure accounts for and determines the nature of your social being. It is not enough to be a hedonist, this merely manifests that one is a nihilist, even if they don't confess to the term. Intellectuals have a social responsibility in society, it is not good enough to merely pursue one's own interest.
Hey, I've read this multiple times and appreciate the response and the time you took to expound a bit better.
I suppose when I say fear of death, it is not necessarily readily apparent. I would say many young people do not have a fear of death, but do live somewhat through death fears. It doesn't exist so much as an apparent fear, as it is so ingrained in all of human traditions, religions, behaviors, and norms. It's sly, and creeps up on you. It is a slow killing disease, and you wouldn't know it is there and you live accordingly by its infection until you have a few lapses that cause just enough sanity to philosophize your way into living.
And then in those with more keen awareness of immediate and sudden death, this is an anxiety, one you'd see in depressed and anxious patients, among others. I am talking more so of the former.
I think you've diagnosed your own frustration right here. You say you no longer fear death, but you are clearly still very fixated on it. Seeing life through the prism of death is trying to understand a thing solely by considering its absence. You may not fear it, but it consumes your thoughts nonetheless.
Shift your focus. This is easy to say, hard to do. It requires daily effort and the willpower to maintain that effort over a period of time. There are various tools to help with this. Meditation, mantras, routinized physical activity such as yoga or tai chi, counseling, or joining a support group. The idea is to rewire where your mind goes by default in its resting state. Yours goes to death. No wonder you can't seem to "get into" life.
Choose your own reality. All reality is agreement reality anyway. Imagine yourself as you wish you were and then take logical steps to become that person. You say you wish you were not bored. What does that mean to you? Imagine a not bored person. Can you? What is that person like? What do they do? Visualize and emulate.
If you don't, you don't. There are no judges, no prizes, and no "answers". Life is truthfully what you make it. The key to it all is the "you" part.