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Buddhism vs Cynicism vs nihilism

Gregory September 05, 2020 at 12:18 5525 views 17 comments
I was learning a little bit about Cynicism this morning. To me it sounded like ancient Greek nihilism. Some people when they give up on life become humble or what people generally think of as quiest. But "letting go" in some people leads them to act out in anti social ways in order to reach recognition. Diogenes the Cynic would masturbate in public it was reported. Cynicism and nihilism basically are under the umbrella of quietism though in my opinion. To my Western eyes, Buddhism too seems, as to its practical advice, to say "slither away, be quiet, think no more". Which turns around and then just feels like nihilism. What do you think?

Comments (17)

TheMadFool September 05, 2020 at 12:28 #449578
Quoting Gregory
"slither away, be quiet, think no more"


Perhaps that's the end result, the culmination as it were, of deep thought, countless hours of intense focused ruminations, years of intense study.
Judaka September 05, 2020 at 14:07 #449591
Reply to Gregory
What is your definition of nihilism?
Outlander September 05, 2020 at 14:20 #449595
They share one core philosophy: suffering is part of life and is unavoidable.

The differences are:

Buddhism: suffering can be reduced by detachment to worldly desires.

Cynicism: suffering defines life and it may or may not matter, therefore, blah.

Nihilism: none of it matters, therefore find/interpret joy or dissatisfaction as you will.
Gregory September 05, 2020 at 14:30 #449601
Reply to Outlander

That is very impressive, I like that. Off the bat i'd say i am more a Cynic than the other two options. In response to Judaka I was going to say that I thought nihilist got tired of suffering and fell into a position where they found that they had no foundational beliefs
180 Proof September 05, 2020 at 14:36 #449605
Quoting Gregory
I was learning a little bit about Cynicism this morning. To me it sounded like ancient Greek nihilism.

The Cynicism of Diogenes of Sinope & co is, I've always thought, a reaction against and active subversion of 'the nihilism' (i.e. unjustifiable arbitrariness) of social conventions and docile conformity. This isn't "quietism", as the OP suggests; that is, not at all merely renunciative or submissive. Neither are many Buddhist traditions and practices. Cynics, more or less like Buddhists, affirm a 'deflationist' interpretation of nature - that we are 'mere natural creatures' first and foremost - by negating, or rejecting, anti-nature (i.e. artificial, prophylactic) stances toward nature which they deem bad habits, or vices (not unlike karmic attachments that cause dukkha.).
Gregory September 05, 2020 at 14:41 #449607
Reply to 180 Proof

Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to group them tightly and might have overlooked important details

Yet wouldn't Buddhism be insanity in Einstein's eyes: "doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result"?
180 Proof September 05, 2020 at 14:44 #449608
Gregory September 05, 2020 at 14:54 #449611
It seems to me that intense meditation and use of loans violate Einstein's principle, but maybe craziness is the end result of all human life
TheMadFool September 05, 2020 at 15:28 #449617
Reply to 180 Proof In my humble opinion, cynicism has its roots in human nature, depraved as it is most of the time and that's what counts, plus the depressing indifference of the universe as to our plight.

Nihilism is, at heart, a denial of all values, values that, even if baseless on examination, could do some good, you know, for society, for the tribe, for the indivdual, whomsoever cultivates these values.

Buddhism, as far as values having no leg to stand on, is on the same page as nihilism but the difference being Buddhism recommends that values that have a positive impact be nurture and memetically propagated, even if only in an utilitarian sense.

Cynic: Buddhism is as self-serving as Nihilism

Nihilist: Buddhism is as empty of value as Cynicism

Buddhist: Cynicism is as dangerous as Nihilism



180 Proof September 05, 2020 at 16:30 #449626
Quoting TheMadFool
Cynic: Buddhism is as self-serving as Nihilism

Nihilist: Buddhism is as empty of value as Cynicism

Buddhist: Cynicism is as dangerous as Nihilism

Maybe, but I don't agree.

Nihilist: Nothing matters.
Cynic: "Nothing matters" also doesn't matter.
Buddhist: Nothing lasts, except nothing.


praxis September 05, 2020 at 16:57 #449629
Emptiness is meaningful for Buddhists.
TheMadFool September 05, 2020 at 17:05 #449630
Quoting 180 Proof
Maybe, but I don't agree.

Nihilist: Nothing matters.
Cynic: "Nothing matters" also doesn't matter.
Buddhist: Nothing lasts, except nothing.


Cynic: I found out that nobody cares and if someone cares s/he only cares about herself/himself. Wary.

Nihilist: I searched for good reasons to care about something but found none. Now, I don't care. Disappointed.

Buddhist: I care even if there are no reasons to care and even if nobody cares and even if people care only about themselves. Happy.
Banno September 06, 2020 at 01:28 #449791
Quoting Gregory
Some people when they give up on life become humble or what people generally think of as quiest.


Quietism?

That would be pointing out that the debate is a bit pointless, rather than giving up on life.
Gregory September 06, 2020 at 02:15 #449794
Autocorrect changed koan to loan in my last post. That's why it didn't seem to make sense lol
Gregory September 06, 2020 at 02:26 #449797
A traditionalist Aristotelian once told me that Buddhists were stupid people. He would have accepted G.K. Chesterton's quotation that "a healthy mind can accept a paradox", but failed to implement this thru a realization that there is an Easy and West in all of us. The mind wants to dominate, and reasonings can be a whore (said Luther).
Gnomon September 07, 2020 at 18:15 #450184
Quoting Gregory
I was learning a little bit about Cynicism this morning. To me it sounded like ancient Greek nihilism.. . . . To my Western eyes, Buddhism too seems, as to its practical advice, to say "slither away, be quiet, think no more".

The hyper-critical Cynics were the Punk Rockers of their day : act like an animal, "don't give a sh*t about anything". Theirs was an extreme opposite reaction to the prevailing conventional bullsh*t of the day : abandon arbitrary social rules, instead "do it like you feel".

I too, was turned-off by the seeming nihilism of Buddhism. But now I realize that the Buddha offered a legitimate philosophical contribution to improving the world, by improving yourself first. Mindfulness Meditation was an early form of modern Rational Cognitive Psychology. I got that last opinion from the book linked below. :smile:

Why Buddhism Is True : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Buddhism_Is_True
Note : the book is not about religious doctrines, but about psychological methods of self-control.
Pinprick September 07, 2020 at 18:41 #450188
I don’t think nihilism can honestly promote any particular lifestyle or way of approaching/confronting life, as all lifestyles/approaches are meaningless. Whereas cynicism and Buddhism do promote particular stances, etc.