Questions

If I follow your meaning, no and no.

What you're talking about are sense patterns or mental representations. We couldn't recognize sandpaper or a particular sound without mental representations of them. If there were no mental representations to simulate then there would be nothing to mentally simulate.

Reply to praxis and is every mental representation in the form of images or "sounds" made by my inner voice? or am I missing some other type of mental representation?

Quoting Daniel

?praxis and is every mental representation in the form of images or "sounds" made by my inner voice? or am I missing some other type of mental representation?

Yes you are. Nostalgia is a mental representation that's not represented by any of the things you associate with it -- happy, longing, past. I'm sure there will be objection to this, but let's dissect it.

Reply to Caldwell Let's do it. I agree, they all are mental representations, although I'd say "past" is more complex than the rest. Let's not include it in the dissection. So, I'd like to ask you, what do you feel when you think of nostalgia? What is it represented by?

Quoting Daniel

So, I'd like to ask you, what do you feel when you think of nostalgia? What is it represented by?

Well, the same way others feel when experiencing nostalgia -- happy, familiar place or object. Or just a longing of something positive that I've experienced in the past. But if we actually think about it, nostalgia is a different representation than just the quality of a place or object, such as the sound and smell of the ocean, an old turntable, or even an ice cream shop. These objects cannot contain "nostalgia" nor can they produce nostalgia.

The sense data of the ocean, a turntable, or an ice cream shop may contribute to the feeling of nostalgia, which may be better described as a socially constructed emotion concept than a mental representation. Mental representation like the smell of the ocean are independent of emotion concepts and any sort of social consensus.

Quoting praxis

The sense data of the ocean, a turntable, or an ice cream shop may contribute to the feeling of nostalgia, which may be better described as a socially constructed emotion concept than a mental representation. Mental representation like the smell of the ocean are independent of emotion concepts and any sort of social consensus.

But that's the thing -- it's more than emotion. Nostalgia must have the empirical experience in order for it be nostalgia. Otherwise, we could just be attached to tubes in a vat being fed experiences.

Reply to Caldwell

Right, emotions respond (hopefully adaptively) to experience or situations. A brain in a vat could be feed sense data (raw experience) which could include social constructs.

Reply to Daniel

I love this topic. Sad to see it in the Lounge, as usual, nowadays.

I would hesitantly take nostalgia one step further and say that, not only is it sense data memory -> emotional response, but there's one further arrow, which is -> meaning. Nostalgic experiences feel like they get at the root. It may be a total illusion, and maybe that feeling is just a more complex emotion working unconsciously.

This is a great topic! Real philosophy is the accurate description and analysis of reality. Phenomenology.
I think you can do both without seeing or replicating the sound internally. Its interesting when your talking with someone you dont have to visualise or replicate if they refer to the items you mentioned,but you CAN depending on the context. @Daniel

Reply to Caldwell I think I made a mistake in my last comment where I asked you to describe what you felt when you thought of nostalgia. I think there are mental representations and composites of mental representations; nostalgia would be a composite of mental representations. However, when I think of nostalgia without thinking of the entities that make me feel nostalgic I sigh and I feel all my body go "numb" for like 1s, and I also feel a void in my chest sometimes. Now, I wonder if these feelings are a mental representation, too; so, when I imagine myself feeling nostalgic (which is different to thinking of nostalgia), to that representation of myself I give it the sigh and also the feeling, and I cannot imagine myself feeling nostalgic without feeling my body go numb or without feeling that sensation which I get when I think of nostalgia.

I guess something similar happens in relation to fear, and other feelings.

Reply to praxis could the sensation of fear which you feel in your body when you are afraid be a mental representation when given to an object of the imagination? Or are mental representations just images and sounds? When one imagines oneself being afraid without being in an actual fearful situation, would the replica be complete without that body sensation?

Reply to Noble Dust I posted it here. It wasn't moved.

Reply to Caldwell Reply to praxis Reply to Noble Dust Reply to Asif

Is there a fundamental unit(s) of thought? is the question clear? better... what are the fundamental blocks of thought (in terms of imagination)?

@Daniel I think we have to be extremely careful with reductionism in this analysis. There are always multiple thoughts and feelings present simultaneously,we can focus and abbreviate on one but even a single thought Carries a context of other thoughts/feelings and implications.
Thought as multiplicity and continually evolving.
Asking for a unit of thought is similiar to asking for a unit of duration. Duration in terms of felt time not clock time.

Quoting Noble Dust

I would hesitantly take nostalgia one step further and say that, not only is it sense data memory -> emotional response, but there's one further arrow, which is -> meaning. Nostalgic experiences feel like they get at the root. It may be a total illusion, and maybe that feeling is just a more complex emotion working unconsciously.

Good point, nostalgias link to our personal narrative would make it more core and meaningful, I would think.

Quoting Daniel

could the sensation of fear which you feel in your body when you are afraid be a mental representation when given to an object of the imagination? Or are mental representations just images and sounds? When one imagines oneself being afraid without being in an actual fearful situation, would the replica be complete without that body sensation?

Not sure what you mean by "when given to an object of the imagination." The 'sensation of fear' is inextricably tied to the body and therefore is not entirely a mental representation. So, the 'replica' could only be incomplete if the mind were severed from the body, and since minds don't exist without bodies to support them, I guess the answer is no.

Quoting Daniel

Can you think of a sound without replicating it with your inner voice?

Can you think of the feeling of touching a rough surface (i.e., sand paper) without "seeing" the act of touching the rough surface in your mind?

When you think of a chainsaw do you replicate its image in your mind? When someone talks about the noise they make, do you replicate the noise in your head?
I don't. I can't even image what it would be like to have all of the sounds that you thought about being replicated with your inner voice.

Any sensory input that is in your memory can be recalled, possibly even relived to a certain extent. But I have to actually try to replicate the sound of a ships horn before I can "hear" it in my mind. I can think about the chirping of birds as well without having to have the chirping replicated.

Quoting Daniel

Is there a fundamental unit(s) of thought?

If there is, we certainly don't have a word or concept for it. Which brings up the question of to what extent it actually exists, and on what level (or in what sense), if it does...metaphysical? Conceptual? Physical? Spiritual? Mental?

Quoting Noble Dust

It may be a total illusion, and maybe that feeling is just a more complex emotion working unconsciously.

Sorry, there is no maybe here, not a total illusion. What if I tell you that nostalgia is an involuntary information retrieval, manifested not as touch, smell, sound -- but like a secondary bacterial infection, for lack of a better word -- after exposure to sense data of touch, smell, sound?

Quoting Daniel

Now, I wonder if these feelings are a mental representation, too; so, when I imagine myself feeling nostalgic

See my above response to Noble Dust.

Quoting Daniel

Is there a fundamental unit(s) of thought? is the question clear? better... what are the fundamental blocks of thought (in terms of imagination)?

I don't think there is. What would it be like to think in "units" of thoughts? Think Wittgenstein on this.

There is, however, fundamental units of sound and speech.