You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

Judgment

Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 02:12 8750 views 25 comments
Ceteris paribus, who is more likely to make a poor judgment call?

Someone who believes what is not true and makes judgments based on those beliefs.

Or

Someone who believe what is true and makes judgments based on those beliefs.

Comments (25)

BC December 24, 2016 at 04:45 #40837
Since the answer would seem to be obvious (Someone who believes what is true and makes judgments based on those beliefs) and since there would be little point in asking a question with a very obvious answer, I assume there is something lurking that is not obvious.

Who is more likely to make a bad judgement call would seem to depend on the relationship between what is believed (whether it be true or not true) and the nature of the judgement call. One could believe in both a flat earth and an earth-centric cosmos, but make perfectly good judgements about when to sell property. One could be an astrophysicist, fully understand the true nature of the solar system, and make a bad judgement call about whether to continue to support the Hubble Telescope.

Now, if the judgement call is directly related to what is believed, then I would suppose that the best person to make a judgement call about Hubble would be the astrophysicist rather than the flat earther. But that person might still make a bad call.

Ceteris paribus, people make bad judgement calls all the time regardless of what they know for sure, and whether what they know is true or not sure.

So what was I supposed to derive from your question that I didn't get?
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 07:41 #40840
Quoting Bitter Crank
Since the answer would seem to be obvious (Someone who believes what is true and makes judgments based on those beliefs) and since there would be little point in asking a question with a very obvious answer, I assume there is something lurking that is not obvious.


There is nothing lurking, and that is the issue. It is a simple straight forward truth that is too often over looked because we work hard to convince ourselves there are no consequence to being wrong.

Quoting Bitter Crank
Ceteris paribus, people make bad judgement calls all the time regardless of what they know for sure, and whether what they know is true or not sure.


That is why it says "more likely."
BC December 24, 2016 at 18:44 #40925
Quoting Jeremiah
There is nothing lurking, and that is the issue. It is a simple straight forward truth that is too often over looked because we work hard to convince ourselves there are no consequence to being wrong.


True enough, there are often major negative consequences resulting from being wrong. And there are (at least) two additional problems:

a) We can't always tell whether we have latched on to truth or non-truth.
b) Even if we think we have the truth, it may not be clear what "good judgement" would therefore be.

Take Syria:

T or F Assad is worse than "the rebels"
T or F At least some of the rebels are worse than Assad
T or F Regardless of who is better or worse, continued combat will kill a lot of non-combatants
T or F Russia is inherently evil for assisting Assad.
T or F US is inherently evil for not assisting the rebels.
T or F It would have been possible to evacuate non-combatants from Aleppo if "we" had tried.

And so on. Lots of people believe they know what is true and false about Syria. Knowing what is true, if it is true, doesn't seem to have helped everyone make good judgements. Even if they made good judgements, the resulting actions (or inaction, as the case might be) haven't always worked out well.

Syria is very complicated, but truth and good judgement may be difficult to determine in simpler situations.
Terrapin Station December 24, 2016 at 19:21 #40941
Quoting Jeremiah
Ceteris paribus, who is more likely to make a poor judgment call?

Someone who believes what is not true and makes judgments based on those beliefs.

Or

Someone who believe what is true and makes judgments based on those beliefs.


Not enough information in my opinion. There are way too many variables that factor into this.
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 19:42 #40943
Quoting Terrapin Station
Not enough information in my opinion. There are way too many variables that factor into this.


All other variables are being held at a constant and/or are equal.

People always want to add context that simply is not there, but what you need to keep in mind is that this is not an end all be all statement about truth, and I am not asking what is always the case but what is more likely to happen.

It seems like such a simple question, but you get a lot of different reactions from people. I typically get about a half and half response to this question, half of the people see it clear as day, while the other half have problems accepting it.

Terrapin Station December 24, 2016 at 19:57 #40946
Reply to Jeremiah

For example, it depends on just what the judgment is about. Just what beliefs are we talking about? There are certainly beliefs where someone who believes something that isn't true might make a better judgment (in my opinion--and that's another variable here) than someone who believes something that is true.
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 20:41 #40968
Reply to Terrapin Station

That is a possibility, but the question is what is more likely to happen.
Terrapin Station December 24, 2016 at 21:17 #40972
Reply to Jeremiah

I don't believe there's any plausible way to estimate likelihood for this.
jkop December 24, 2016 at 21:19 #40973
Peer pressure, politics etc. might increase the likelihood that people make judgements based on false beliefs (or opportunism regardless of the belief).
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 21:59 #40975
Quoting Terrapin Station
I don't believe there's any plausible way to estimate likelihood for this


Do you think it is important to be well informed before you make a decision?
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 22:03 #40977
Quoting jkop
Peer pressure, politics etc. might increase the likelihood that people make judgements based on false beliefs (or opportunism regardless of the belief).


All other variables are being held at a constant and/or are equal.
Terrapin Station December 24, 2016 at 22:10 #40979
Reply to Jeremiah

If it's some major decision--career, where to live, whether/who to marry, etc., sure. I prefer to be informed about the aspects that are important to me.

For other sorts of decisions, sometimes I prefer to have as little information as possible or even to make them randomly.

So it depends on the decision .
BC December 24, 2016 at 22:11 #40980
Reply to Jeremiah Jerry, would you mind responding to my post?
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 22:11 #40981
Quoting Terrapin Station
If it's some major decision--career, where to live, whether/who to marry, etc., sure. I prefer to be informed about the aspects that are important to me.


And for these decisions why do you prefer to be informed?
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 22:25 #40983
Quoting Bitter Crank
Jerry, would you mind responding to my post?


Well, for the premise of the OP we don't need to worry about a) as we are assuming one believes what is true and one believe what is not true.

As for b) once again I have to point out we are talking about what is more likely.

Simply because you have ascertained the truth of something, that does not mean you will necessarily make a good judgement call or even be able to find a good solution. But your judgment is likely to be better than if you don't understand the truth, or if you believed something other than the truth.

Personally I believe truth and good decisions are linked, and it is one of the reasons I strive so hard to be as accurate as I can. Is it possible for me to reach a poor conclusion while being well informed? Yes, but I am far more likely to reach a poor conclusion when I am poorly informed, or when I believe what is not true.
BC December 24, 2016 at 22:37 #40985
Quoting Jeremiah
Personally I believe truth and good decisions are linked, and it is one of the reasons I strive so hard to be as accurate as I can. Is it possible for me to reach a poor conclusion while being well informed? Yes, but I am far more likely to reach a poor conclusion when I am poorly informed, or when I believe what is not true.


Seems reasonable. Because, "garbage in, garbage out" as they say in data processing.

Now, how much more likely are good decisions based on good information, when we are paying attention and when we are trying to make a good decision?

I'm not a futilitarian. Futility doesn't universally apply, but it is possible.
Jeremiah December 24, 2016 at 22:47 #40989
Quoting Bitter Crank
Now, how much more likely are good decisions based on good information, when we are paying attention and when we are trying to make a good decision?


Well, when you ask "how much" we would be getting into a quantitative measurement of probability, which I would need some data to to figure out. I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility to reasonably figure out, but it is beyond my resources.
Terrapin Station December 25, 2016 at 00:11 #40998
Quoting Jeremiah
And for these decisions why do you prefer to be informed?


I'm not sure how to answer that. Preferring something is just being in a state where you have more positive feelings towards one option rather than another.
Jeremiah December 25, 2016 at 15:42 #41090
Reply to Terrapin Station

Right. . . . because there is no clear advantage to being well informed.

At this point I have to believe you are just being stubborn.
Terrapin Station December 25, 2016 at 16:30 #41100
Reply to Jeremiah

Well, I see the advantage here as being about preferences though (and probably I always see advantage as being about that).

For example, for the things where I prefer to not be well-informed--say when I'm picking out films to watch for example, where I prefer to know as little as possible prior to watching a film (I just need a couple small facts--sometimes just the genre and an idea of the budget/studio is enough, or just the genre and an actor, or sometimes even just one actor, etc.), someone with different preferences could say that an advantage arrives with being better informed, so that they'd know quite a bit about the plot, they've maybe read reviews, etc.. But I don't like that experience as well. I prefer watching films relatively "blind."

So it seems to be the same sort of thing to me for things where I prefer to have more information prior to making a decision. Someone might prefer making those decisions with less information. I don't think that one is inherently better than another. And of course, I don't think that anything is inherently better than anything else in any non-conditional context (where the conditions on my view are always limited to what people desire).
BC December 25, 2016 at 17:39 #41107
Quoting Terrapin Station
picking out films


For picking out paperbacks and films, I find that a reasonable amount of information improves my selection success, which given the gravity of choosing a paperback or movie rental, isn't exactly a life-and-death matter.

Oddly, I have made choices that were a good deal more likely to have had life-and-death implications with a good deal less information than I had for deciding to watch XYZ movie or reading XYZ paperback.
lime green zesty citrus December 25, 2016 at 17:45 #41108
I always find the news, and the hard copy, and on the computer and the television, relevant to me. But with a caution that a lot of it is just propaganda.
BC December 25, 2016 at 18:06 #41109
Reply to lime green zesty citrus Welcome to The Philosophy Forum.

Sometimes it is important to know what the propaganda is, even if it is 85% false.
lime green zesty citrus December 25, 2016 at 18:09 #41111
Oh yes, it takes a lot of discernment and common sense. Thank you for your comment. Most appreciated.
Terrapin Station December 25, 2016 at 18:32 #41112
Quoting Bitter Crank
Oddly, I have made choices that were a good deal more likely to have had life-and-death implications with a good deal less information than I had for deciding to watch XYZ movie or reading XYZ paperback.


For a lot of things, I prefer to be surprised or have it be like an adventure where I'm heading off into uncharted waters. I'll do that often when I'm bike-riding somewhere, and sometimes I'll even do it when I'm driving--I'll head down a path/take a road where I haven't the faintest idea where it goes, simply because I like the experience of that. And while I haven't done it for awhile, sometimes driving I used to intentionally try to get myself lost for adventure/exploration's sake.