Is the knowledge of good and evil, good or evil?

Knowledge itself is not "good or evil"; rather using knowledge can be "good or evil" or neither (i.e. instrumental, pragmatic).

Quoting 180 Proof

Knowledge itself is not "good or evil"; rather using knowledge can be "good or evil" or neither (i.e. instrumental, pragmatic).

Adam did not use the knowledge he gained before Yahweh evicted him from Eden.

Can you use knowledge for good or evil when you have none?

Would Adam have been better off to never reproduce or know what that thing between his legs was there to do?

Was na godlike moral sense not worthy of his wanting?

Regards
DL

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

Adam did not use the knowledge he gained before Yahweh evicted him from Eden.

Sure he did. He used it to cover his and Eve's 'nakedness' from Yahweh.

Reply to Gnostic Christian Bishop
It must be Ialdaboath tricking them :wink:.

Reply to Gnostic Christian Bishop About the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" (Genesis 2:17) - it probably has nothing to do with good and evil as such. It's generally thought to be an example of merism: the combination of two contrasting words to refer to an entirety. For example: we searched high and low.It's a literary device that pairs opposite terms together in order to create a general meaning, so that the phrase "good and evil" would simply imply "everything."

Reply to Gnostic Christian Bishop Knowledge of both is essential to recognise them. Someone only interested in ‘the good’ is setting themselves up for denial of their potentially ‘evil actions’ as they are only ‘good’ in their mind.

It’s a really tough thing to look deep into our own sense of right and wrong rather than just blithely skirt around the difficulty of deciding where and when to draw the line.

Staying within religion, if the knowledge of good and evil were good then, god wouldn't have punished A & E. On the flip side, were it evil, god would've dealt with it in a much more severe fashion.

Neither good nor evil, it appears but wait...

If the knowledge of good and evil were not evil then why did god punish A & E? And if it were not good why was the punishment so light?

So, knowledge of good and evil is:
1. Good...light punishment
2. Evil...punishment
3. Not good...punishment
4. Not evil...light punishment

Of course, that there was punishment, notwithstanding the leniency which can be chalked up to god's mercy, suggests that, by and large, eating the forbidden fruit was evilish.

In what sense is knowledge of good and evil something evilish? Perhaps because it bespeaks a rebellious nature, an innate instinct to disobey - the seeds, as it were, of a tendency to violate rules and rules (laws) are a necessary feature for harmony, something that must surely be at the top of god's list of desiderata.

It seems, therefore, that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was nothing more than the embodiment of disobedience, disorder and chaos; that its fruit was "the knowledge of good and evil" is of no significance to the overall plot except if one is of the opinion that knowledge of good and evil are the highest temptations in god's arsenal.

I believe the bible is irrelevant. However...for the sake of boredom, yeah, I would argue that sky daddy punished them for simply disobeying his commandment. I assume it wouldn't have mattered what the commandment was, it would have been the same outcome, since god knew they would disobey and that he would punish them that way. The bigger question here is: Why did god create them, or anyone for that matter, if he already knew the outcome?

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

good and evil

If you accept that humans are not "bad" but in fact "selfish", you can see that, in fact, "good" is just a reflection of someone's selfish nature. So, in conclusion, good is unnecessary, but in order to exist as an option in life, selfishness is bound to exist.

Or maybe like Nietzsche knowledge is "beyond good and evil"

Knowledge is useless unless you act on it. Also, good and evil is just one's conditioning. Something that is good is evil to another. So in a nutshell, perceptions are reality.

Quoting 180 Proof

Sure he did. He used it to cover his and Eve's 'nakedness' from Yahweh.

Point to you. I was thinking of the reproduction angle.

God did the killing for the skins though. Bad Yahweh.

Regards
DL

Quoting schopenhauer1

It must be Ialdaboath tricking them

He does not have that power. No myth does.

Regards
DL

Quoting I like sushi

It’s a really tough thing to look deep into our own sense of right and wrong rather than just blithely skirt around the difficulty of deciding where and when to draw the line.

Insightful.

Critical thinking helps, but some of those evils are sure good and hard to pas up..

Regards
DL

Quoting TheMadFool

if one is of the opinion that knowledge of good and evil are the highest temptations in god's arsenal.

It is what Adam fell for. He even ignored the tree of life.

I guess he recognized that life without an education was just not worth living.

As to our rebelling. All should rebel against those who would keep us dumbed down and stupid, which is what Yahweh tried and failed to do with A & E.

Some have used that knowledge to praise a genocidal Yahweh and the more moral have used it to condemn his sorry ass.

Regards
DL

Quoting GTTRPNK

Why did god create them, or anyone for that matter, if he already knew the outcome?

Yes. It does seem like Yahweh was just bored and wanted slaves.

They had to invent a reason for Yahweh abandoning us and they used sin.

Regards
DL

Quoting Gus Lamarch

If you accept that humans are not "bad" but in fact "selfish", you can see that, in fact, "good" is just a reflection of someone's selfish nature. So, in conclusion, good is unnecessary, but in order to exist as an option in life, selfishness is bound to exist.

Insightful.

God is indeed unnecessary, and is in fact a hindrance to moral thinking, as shown by the supernatural god religions adoring a genocidal satanic god.

Regards
DL

Quoting prothero

Or maybe like Nietzsche knowledge is "beyond good and evil"

I do not see that as possible. Do you have an example?

Regards
DL

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

It is what Adam fell for. He even ignored the tree of life.

I guess he recognized that life without an education was just not worth living.

As to our rebelling. All should rebel against those who would keep us dumbed down and stupid, which is what Yahweh tried and failed to do with A & E.

Some have used that knowledge to praise a genocidal Yahweh and the more moral have used it to condemn his sorry ass.

Regards
DL

:ok:

Quoting Ugesh

Knowledge is useless unless you act on it. Also, good and evil is just one's conditioning. Something that is good is evil to another. So in a nutshell, perceptions are reality.

You are not talking of normal people. More like S & Ms.

Most of those will agree on what is good or evil, unless they are moral cowards who follow a genocidal god out of fear.

Stats show that better than 70% of us begin our moral thinking with the Golden Rule.

Regards
DL

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Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

Is the knowledge of good and evil, good or evil?

knowledge is power, power can be wielded for good and for evil. So it's neither and it's both, not necessarily one or the other. Good and evil are not determined by what we know or think we know, but instead by how we choose to act.

Quoting tim wood

Where does it say that?

Where Yahweh indicates that their eyes were opened after they ate from the tree of knowledge.

Regards
DL

Quoting Tomseltje

knowledge is power, power can be wielded for good and for evil. So it's neither and it's both, not necessarily one or the other. Good and evil are not determined by what we know or think we know, but instead by how we choose to act.

We act on what we think we know.

I E. If we think the road is icy, be it or not, we will likely slow down.

Is that knowing, even if wrong, better than not having no knowledge to make an opinion at all?

Regards
DL

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Quoting tim wood

And where does it say that? "Where" means where.

Do I know which of the many Christian fairy tale for adults you have?

I use a Jewish one so let me know if it matches yours.

? ???????????????, ?????? ?????????, ??????????, ???? ????????? ???; ????????????? ????? ???????, ??????????? ????? ???????.

Gen 3;7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig-leaves together, and made themselves girdles.

Regards
DL

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

Is the knowledge of good and evil, good or evil?

The Hebrew ( ???? ????????? ????? ??????) clearly indicates an "and" between the Hebrew words good and evil.

There's a brief informative Wiki on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_the_knowledge_of_good_and_evil

How you interpret this phrase is dependant upon the tradition you start with, with Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and secular views imparting different meaning to it. You'll note that the secular interpretation doesn't even consider the knowledge of "good and evil" to refer to moral knowledge specifically, but to all knowledge generally because "good and evil" is interpreted as from good to evil, as in from A to Z.

Quoting tim wood

Why are you so concerned with fairy tales?

Those fairy tales are literally believed by many and they use it to discriminate against women and gays without a just cause.

If you live by the Golden Rule, you too will be concerned for your fellow man and act to reduce the harm of homophobia and misogyny.

I have family that are women and gays and I owe it to them as well as everyone else to try to oppose those who discriminate against them without a just cause.

Regards
DL

Quoting Hanover

The Hebrew ( ???? ????????? ????? ??????) clearly indicates an "and" between the Hebrew words good and evil.

I did not change it.

I did use "or" in my question but did not use or for the TOK.

I agree that there is a scale between good and evil but that does not change my question.

Was Adam wise or dumb to seek knowledge to the point of ignoring god's command to stay stupid and with his moral eyes closed?

Regards
DL

It's actually quite simple what's the idea of the text, but, hm... people are quite dumb even for that. What is good and evil? It's the world of duality of course. The "forbidden fruit", was entering this world of duality from the world of oneness (i.e. "heaven"). Duality is a mental world. Hard to know whether there are other mental worlds, I suspect the answer is yes. But if you stand outside it, you can't be "mentally blind", you can be such only after you enter it, and you lack the wisdom to play the game. And all of us entered it like this, since duality means taking one of the sides - black or white, and not understanding balance. Actually - this is the trick, this illusion of polarities. In other mental worlds - it may be that understanding just exists as something consistent. In this mental world - it's broken into seemingly opposing forces.

But your statement, is like saying that someone sucks at particular game he never really played.You can't be "stupid" if you do not exist on that particular mental level. If such concept is difficult for you, imagine blaming an animal, that it's stupid since it doesn't know how to solve differential equations. It doesn't need to... Animals are intelligent on their own level of existence. If an alien came to this planet and see our math, it may look as a joke to it... Everything is relative.

Also, don't forget that Yahweh is a product of the human mind and specific cultural narrative. The "story" is somewhat wrong, since the One didn't blame us for anything. However the choice that was made to enter this particular mental game led to a fall of consciousness. This is our own perspective and actually we blame ourselves. The authors of many books love to elevate their own vision, and present it as something much more then their own opinion. The many texts of the Bible are not much different of course. Yahweh's character is just a projection of those who wrote the books. I'm not claiming they had divine inspiration or not. It's a fact they were humans like all of us, and wrote in the way they feel, not necessary what it is... The better question is - were they right overall about the fall of Adam, and my answer is yes, but this is much, much more complicated topic.

Quoting interim

The better question is - were they right overall about the fall of Adam, and my answer is yes, but this is much, much more complicated topic.

Get as complicated as you like. I doubt you will lose me.

If you are correct, tell us why Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh's plan.

Why should A & E have stayed too stupid to reproduce and with their moral eyes closed?

Were they wrong in not derailing Yahweh's plan?

Would you refrain if you were Adam and screw up the plan?

Regards
DL

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

I E. If we think the road is icy, be it or not, we will likely slow down.

You didn't ask whether knowledge of good and evil was good or evil in this particular situation, you asked it in general. All of a sudden narrowing it down to a specific situation as if the question in general no longer applies strikes me as attempting to argue a changing the goalpost fallacy.

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

We act on what we think we know.

What we think we know is not knowledge, it is called belief. Human beings need beliefs in order to act.

Eh. Is what you understand to be close and what is far respectively closer and/or further. Morality can be defined. That is a consensus can be reached. But it won't. What pleases me versus what pleases thee. Nothing new really.