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Relinquishing solipsim.

Shawn May 11, 2020 at 22:16 7850 views 34 comments
There's nothing scarier than becoming a solipsist.

In many ways splitting one's self off from the rest of the world is scarier than suicide. The soul goes on living in a self-made purgatory.

Yet, there seems no way out of this predicament, or is there?

How does one stop being a solipsist once one?

Comments (34)

Pfhorrest May 11, 2020 at 23:23 #411950
Reply to Shawn By realizing the triviality of it. Even if solipsism is correct, the solipsist still finds themselves having experiences of something that is seemingly beyond their awareness or control, even if they think that that something is just another part of their own mind. The difference between "the part of my mind I am directly aware of and in control of" and "the part of my mind beyond that" is in practice indistinguishable from the difference between "myself" and "the rest of the world". You've still got to deal with that unknown "other" even if you think it's just an "other part of me", try to figure out how and why it works and how to make it better. And trying to do that cooperatively with other "figments of your imagination" requires granting them equal status as yourself: if the greater part of your mind that's beyond your awareness and control can contain things that superficially seem like you, what's to suppose that "you" yourself aren't just like them, and that that greater you isn't also looking at you through the eyes of those other "figments of your imagination"?

The solipsist may deny that there is really anybody in disagreement at all, but will nevertheless find no traction in convincing what he thinks to be a figment of his imagination who seems to disagree with him that they are not real and so that their take on what else is or isn't real doesn't matter, especially if that supposed figment of his imagination is himself also a solipsist and so thinks that the first person is the actual figment of the imagination. The egotist, likewise, will find no route to moral agreement with someone whom he explicitly thinks is of no moral consideration, especially if that other person is also an egoist and thinks likewise of the first person.

So even if solipsism is true, it makes no practical difference on how to go about life. You need to act the same way anyway.
Shawn May 11, 2020 at 23:31 #411954
Reply to Pfhorrest

Regarding the first paragraph, there's are subconscious and unconscious entailments here.

Regarding second, I don't think solipsism in some Solaristic sense excludes the potential for disagreement. Psychological issues, would be dealt with at such a fast rate that people would literally overnight become perfect.

DrOlsnesLea May 11, 2020 at 23:38 #411956
One harder notion of Solipsism, yet not so extreme:

So let's assume that the impression of nature, of beauty, of colors have qualia to them in such a fashion that context of them in the brain, in the soul (that I think exists) makes them special to the person in space and time by the unique experiences they make in a person's mentality. This creates a special kind of solipsism as well such that the true magnificence of experiences overall has this subtle, non-investigative quality of person that is firmly set by context, a contextualism in the brain, in the soul. Sure, overt feelings are now fairly easy to determine by for example fMRI and other. But this is not the issue, it is the depth of contextuality in the mind that makes those other qualities of feelings inaccessible overall because they are impossible to describe and impossible to entirely investigate.
The mystery of the World, one type of religious experience, "God's temple" in us in the grand World, much stronger too with the enhancement of science and questions over existence. So I say that to live is to have qualia, solipsism and contextualism in this fashion, the imprint on each and everyone by the World as a whole!

Good life, everyone!

Note: One account of Qualia can be found in Philosophy of Mind, 2nd ed. by Jaegwon Kim, chapter 8, for instance.
Note 2: I use Solipsism in the Contextual Solipsism sense.
Note 3: I think it's fair to say there are degrees of Solipsism.
Nils Loc May 11, 2020 at 23:42 #411957
Quoting Shawn
How does one stop being a solipsist once one?


Stop thinking about it.
Shawn May 11, 2020 at 23:54 #411958
Quoting Nils Loc
Stop thinking about it.


Worst possible outcome?
QuixoticAgnostic May 11, 2020 at 23:57 #411960
Reply to Shawn What do you understand solipsism to mean?
ernestm May 12, 2020 at 00:02 #411964
Quoting Shawn
There's nothing scarier than becoming a solipsist.


Why is there continued fascination with this topic? it gets beaten to death on this forum at least once a month.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 00:03 #411965
Quoting QuixoticAgnostic
What do you understand solipsism to mean?


https://www.google.com/search?q=solipsism+definition
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 00:05 #411967
Quoting ernestm
Why is there continued fascination with this topic? it gets beaten to death on this forum at least once a month.


It is not implausible that a solipsist might arise.
QuixoticAgnostic May 12, 2020 at 00:11 #411970
Reply to Shawn Okay, so we're just talking about knowledge then. In that case, what do you care if all you know is your own existence? Does the taste of a strawberry feel any less different? That's my crude, off the cuff response.
Outlander May 12, 2020 at 00:13 #411972
Reply to Shawn

Perhaps but it doesn't necessarily have to be all that you've entailed. From my understanding of solipsism, it seems like a rational fallback point in beginning to question what is an objective/absolute truth. Perhaps I'm mistaken as one of the main principles seems to be the self conscious is all that can be known as opposed to all that is known for sure, presumably based on some sort of 'ism' that insists perspective ie. what can be observed or known with the human senses are inherently subjective. Might be a deviation (or simply not solipsism at all) but I imagine a rational thinker would use this as a mental floor to stand on and build so to speak as opposed to a mental ceiling to be trapped under. Anything to that effect, where the person actually begins to feel as you describe could be 'Solipsism syndrome' or depersonalization disorder at worst. Perhaps it may inevitably cause it? I subscribe to the idea there are some poison pill philosophies.

Some people especially online hold or debate views they don't neccesarily live by, often just for sake of debate. I've done so a few times. I'm sitting in my house right now. My cat is nearby on a table. What makes any of those objects 'real'? The fact I can see the walls around me, that I can touch the table, and if I pet the cat it will purr? Perhaps. But so would in a dream.

I imagine a solipsist would begin to gravitate away from the idea when they realise the premise that just because you can see, hear, and feel something doesn't mean it exists really doesn't grant anyone any special privileges. What if the Alexa machine had a glitch and decided it was real? Would it be your new roommate and your equal?

Anyone interested in the idea should watch "Twilight Zone - Shadow Play". It's a really good episode about a stubborn solipsist ... who just so happened to be right. :)
neonspectraltoast May 12, 2020 at 00:18 #411973
All you can reasonably do is try and eat everyone in the world's brain.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 00:25 #411974
Quoting QuixoticAgnostic
Okay, so we're just talking about knowledge then.


I think, so. What more is there to know apart from everything there is to know?

*Speaking as if God were a solipsist, which he/she/it is.
QuixoticAgnostic May 12, 2020 at 00:31 #411977
Reply to Shawn Oops, I meant to distinguish between "only the self exists" and "only the self can be known to exist". Which category do you fall under? And why, while we're at it.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 00:31 #411978
Quoting Outlander
Anyone interested in the idea should watch "Twilight Zone - Shadow Play". It's a really good episode about a stubborn solipsist ... who just so happened to be right. :)


I'm actually torrenting it right now.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 00:33 #411979
Quoting QuixoticAgnostic
Oops, I meant to distinguish between "only the self exists" and "only the self can be known to exist". Which category do you fall under? And why, while we're at it.


Both, haha. Dunno, why are you asking?
QuixoticAgnostic May 12, 2020 at 00:58 #411985
Reply to Shawn Because you seem to be feeling some sort of existential dread and I'm trying to figure out why. So you think the only thing that exists is you. Strawberries don't exist. But do they still taste the same? Does a sandy beach still burn your feet? Do you still fear death? Do you still feel? And what is existence, if not feeling?
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 01:03 #411986
Reply to Outlander

The most horrifying in my life has been seen.
ernestm May 12, 2020 at 01:07 #411987
Quoting Shawn
It is not implausible that a solipsist might arise.


What? Did I think something out loud again? :D
Nils Loc May 12, 2020 at 01:23 #411990
Quoting Shawn
Worst possible outcome?


Hell has exits, one hopes. The Buddha on your shoulder might whisper something about "mindfulness" and the imaginary friend on the other might say something about benign distraction.

When a solipsist isn't thinking that he is a solipsist, is he a solipsist in that moment?

Solipsism is a manifestation of loneliness most likely. Find a distraction and don't indulge in nightmares.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 01:29 #411991
delete
NOS4A2 May 12, 2020 at 19:17 #412168
Reply to Shawn

I cannot for the life of me see how solipsism is even tenable. The solipsist must make the silly assumption that he, The Self, is the center of the universe, which is of his own mind’s creation. Meanwhile others, who are the features of his universe, can watch him grow old and die, bury him, while the universe remains unaffected.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 19:47 #412175
Quoting NOS4A2
I cannot for the life of me see how solipsism is even tenable.


Isn't that a natural thing to say?

Quoting NOS4A2
The solipsist must make the silly assumption that he, The Self, is the center of the universe, which is of his own mind’s creation.


Yes, of course.

Quoting NOS4A2
Meanwhile others, who are the features of his universe, can watch him grow old and die, bury him, while the universe remains unaffected.


Technically, yes, but, to some point, no?
NOS4A2 May 12, 2020 at 19:52 #412176
Reply to Shawn

I think it revolves around what you think the Self is. What is at the center of this universe? Who or what perceives it? Where does the Self end and where does the universe begin? It seems to me these questions are either unanswerable or completely avoided.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 19:54 #412179
Quoting NOS4A2
It seems to me these questions are either unanswerable or completely avoided.


What makes you say that, Nosferatu?
Deleted User May 12, 2020 at 20:17 #412184
Quoting Shawn
Yet, there seems no way out of this predicament, or is there?


It's helpful to come to terms with the fact that you aren't actually a solipsist.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 20:17 #412186
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
It's helpful to come to terms with the fact that you aren't actually a solipsist.


I never want to become one, even though I always end up being one at night...
Deleted User May 12, 2020 at 20:23 #412189
Quoting Shawn
I never want to become one, even though I always end up being one at night...


I've toyed with solipsism and have found it psychologically unsustainable. The only real solipsists are schizophrenic.

See Louis A. Sass's Madness and Modernism for details. I may have mentioned this book before.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 20:25 #412190
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
Louis A. Sass's Madness and Modernism


I'll give it a read sometime. It seems like a hot pick nowadays.
A Seagull May 12, 2020 at 20:27 #412191
Quoting Shawn
What do you understand solipsism to mean? — QuixoticAgnostic
https://www.google.com/search


"the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist."

Quoting Shawn
How does one stop being a solipsist once one?


It is quite easy really. Once you know that your self exists, you can infer the existence of other things and people.
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 20:28 #412192
Quoting A Seagull
It is quite easy really. Once you know that your self exists, you can infer the existence of other things and people.


Brilliant!
Shawn May 12, 2020 at 20:31 #412194
So, it's like a delusion, plain and simple?
Deleted User May 12, 2020 at 21:03 #412201
Quoting Shawn
I'll give it a read sometime. It seems like a hot pick nowadays.


A lot of first-hand accounts of true schizophrenic solipsism by extremely intellectual and articulate schizophrenics.
A Seagull May 13, 2020 at 06:08 #412292
Quoting Shawn
So, it's like a delusion, plain and simple?


Were you referring to my post? not sure....

What is a delusion?

If you want to go down that path, then life itself is a delusion ... and certainly truth is a delusion.