Why do suicidal thoughts arise?

Reply to Shawn There's a lot of pssible answers to that question, from feelings of despair, though philosophical nihilism, to psychosis causing illogical thought processes.

Part of it is a person's internal value system. People just don't find continued physical exisience worthwhile. This extends beyond suicide itself to, for example, martyrs voluntarily letting themselves be fed alive to Nero's lions.

Pain. Wanting it to end. Not complicated really.

Some do have mental complexes that exasperate the problem. Of course others have just been dealt a horrible hand so to speak.

Not much more to think about then if I started jabbing you in the side and you decide you want to leave the room.

Quoting ernestm

There's a lot of pssible answers to that question, from feelings of despair, though philosophical nihilism, to psychosis causing illogical thought processes.

But, the issue seems to me to become one of a desire for self-annihilation. Why is that?

Quoting Shawn

But, the issue seems to me to become one of a desire for self-annihilation. Why is that?

As you are considering desire, and its value, perhaps you could also look to the buddhist monks who are immolating themselves to death in Tibet. After all, one's personal reaction to desire is a fundament of Buddhist philosophy.

Quoting ernestm

As you are considering desire, and its value, perhaps you could also look to the buddhist monks who are immolating themselves to death in Tibet. As the personal reaction to desire is a fundament of Buddhistm.

Are you talking about dukkha?

I read so many sad and self-destructive thoughts on that Discord. It's absurd. What is with people wanting to commit suicide?

Reply to Shawn
I'd also say untreated depression and untreated, deeper schizophrenia lead to (more) suicidal thoughts!

So I think it's wise to check yourself if you suffer during prolonged period. Let me also recommend Cipralex (Escitalopram) for depression and 3-step method, scientific ECT, medical sleep assistance (Diazepam-based) and Zyprexa (Olanzapine) for schizophrenia. It's also important to know that psychiatry is vastly superior to any psychological "tricks".

I've added some actual tips so that people may get help rapidly instead of going through a whole lot of trouble. I hope this is tolerated here. ?

Death solves all problems. It is the way out when there is no way out. In particular it solves problems of the form 'wherever I go, there I am'. We have formed a society that does not value individuals, but materials, and it is perfectly rational, if one is unproductive and therefore unvalued and unloved, to consider oneself a problem and a burden.

We know that depression and suicide vary widely according to social conditions, but curiously do not consider them symptoms of a social malaise, but make them personal problems. This makes things worse for those who manifest the problems and further isolates and stigmatises them.

Sorry to be lowly here but death may just be a huge re-wind. What can you do?

You need to create a billion big bangs in one attack against the regime to truly find peace...

The modus operandi is to do as good as you can, or 'risk' death. Or maybe I am wrong and it is the way out.

If you suffered you'll likely get a reward - is this a pipe dream?

I don't think so, I believe.

(if people of society weren't such evil people, you have less suicidal thoughts, and you, sufferer, if you weren't so evil previously, you would *apparently* be in a good, or even pole position).

Quoting unenlightened

Death solves all problems.

So does medicine.

I think everyone has had a suicide thought whether it was thinking life would be easier if they were gone, that they will no longer have problems in life if they were not alive, etc. I think these thoughts come as a way to try to cope with problems that people face but it's not the way out. The way out is to fix the problem itself not by escaping it with death. Death doesn't fix. Death is giving up, running away, escaping, etc. If anyone knows ABA therapy the escape method is not ok when dealing with a problem. You must take it head on. Let's say a child doesn't know how to tie their shoes and always runs away from doing it because they don't want to either be faced with the hard task, they don't want to look uneducated, etc. The ABA therapist will stop their escape and will not let them leave until the shoes are on and tied whether by the child alone or by the child and the therapist if help is needed. But escaping is the only giving up and failing method out there and it's not the method that actually works with what you're dealing with.

Quoting Shawn

So does medicine.

Yes indeed. Shall we call purveyors of medicine purveyors of death? The crack or spice addict and the alcoholic are not a long way from the suicide. What the doctor prescribes is probably an improvement on these, but it does the same job of 'getting out of one's head' when one's head is intolerable.

But I say, and the evidence supports, that it is not entirely one's head that is intolerable, but the what society projects into one's head. When society is projecting onto some other 'enemy', as in war time, then the suicide rate drops. When homosexuals are not persecuted, labeled as perverted and deviant, beaten up on the streets, and, ahem, forcibly treated by psychiatrists, lo and behold, they commit suicide less.

Quoting Julia

The ABA therapist will stop their escape and will not let them leave until the shoes are on and tied whether by the child alone or by the child and the therapist if help is needed.

That torture, not therapy.

Let them walk in sandals.

Reply to Shawn ABA is a science so they have documented data and studies to show what works and what doesn't. Plus, walking in sandals is not so good for the winter especially if it snows. One can wear sandals at some points in their life, sure, but they'll need to learn how to wear other shoes as well that may be more suited.

Quoting unenlightened

But I say, and the evidence supports, that it is not entirely one's head that is intolerable, but the what society projects into one's head. When society is projecting onto some other 'enemy', as in war time, then the suicide rate drops.

Unprogramm me, master.

Quoting unenlightened

When homosexuals are not persecuted, labeled as perverted and deviant, beaten up on the streets, and, ahem, forcibly treated by psychiatrists, lo and behold, they commit suicide less.

Actually, asexuals suffer the most.

Quoting Julia

ABA is a science so they have documented data and studies to show what works and what doesn't. Plus, walking in sandals is not so good for the winter especially if it snows.

Then put on those weird Scandinavian pantofels or whatever they're called. :blush:

Reply to Shawn Never heard of those things but then culture comes into play. Some people might not wear those type of shoes in their culture. I was raised with not wearing clothes with holes in them because it doesn't show good character and care of one self so obviously I always avoided ripped jeans. But probably more so personally because clothes with holes may not last as long and rip apart and I like clothes that can stay intact as long as possible. So culture may be involved or one just may not like that style and won't be comfortable.

Quoting Shawn

What is the issue with suicidal thought?

Depends. Very complex. There is no one answer.

Quoting ernestm

This extends beyond suicide itself to, for example, martyrs voluntarily letting themselves be fed alive to Nero's lions.

Good point, but martyrdom in this case relates to religious/spiritual fervor.