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Without Prejudice. Why does anything matter?

Qu King May 08, 2020 at 18:11 9425 views 59 comments
Just thinking out aloud here
What is the purpose
Nothing matters
We die
Before we were born there was nothing
The universe is nothing to me when I die
Why do I care
Why does anyone care
They all die
We live in a made up world with rules and laws invented to control people
What difference does it make if I die now or 100 years from now?
I still die
There is no religion, it’s a lie
There are no ghosts, it’s a lie
There is no magic, it’s a con
There is no afterlife
You die.

So what is the f**king point in anything?

It’s like some cruel joke and everyone is swimming in a sea of fog of denial where where they act as is they are in control.

I have these thought in my mind all the time, don’t tell me I’m depressed because I’m not. Medicating this away is not the answer. I want the world to face reality. Face the facts.
NOTHING MATTERS.
EVER. .

Unless…
The single most important thing is preservation of your own life.
Science is the only answer, not some mumbo jumbo faith BS religion but pure science.
There needs to be a movement that with all the knowledge and wealth in the world that exists today this is what we need to be focusing on. Here are my idea’s:

Initially, find a way to extend our life when our body can no longer cope and the idea’s I had was to preserver the head and keep the brain alive and hook it up to something like the Neuro Link that Elon musk is working on.

Keep you body cryogenically frozen for preservation of your DNA.
When the technology is ready, create a clone of yourself and using a more advanced neuro link connect yourself to that clone.

Your head needs to be protecting in some fortress and with the advancement of Robotics you can neuro lace to a robot too.

The brain is the most complex thing in the universe, it needs preserving and there needs to be a movement of likeminded people.

I cannot believe I am the only one that thinks like this.

Comments (59)

ernestm May 08, 2020 at 18:29 #410712
Quoting Qu King
There is no religion, it’s a lie

I did come back to this forum because I remembered a large number of people having problems with nihilism, solipsism, and other such depressions. I did start a thread on this topic here presenting a more academic and rational interpretation of Christianity, in one case, without requiring any acceptance of supernatural events.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/8180/how-much-is-christs-life-miracles-and-resurrection-a-fraudulent-myth
Due to various objections the first post in the thread is now very long. But if you find any of the questions it addresses interesting, starting with the fact that the life of Jesus was not made up, and onwards from there, I would be glad to discuss it with you on your own thread.
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 18:39 #410713
Hi ernestm, I thank you for the link, I am new here. Like I say, without predijice. I don't come at this subject as with ignorance, far from it. I was deeply religious for many years before I started to learn to ask the right questions. I even studied Theology for 3 years but my view has not changed and I am certain I am not the only one that thinks the same too.
Andrew4Handel May 08, 2020 at 18:44 #410714
You claim that there is no afterlife.

How do you know that?

Your position can be refuted if any of your various premises are false.
Outlander May 08, 2020 at 19:16 #410721
Would you really want to preserve or prolong what is as you say, nothingness and futility though?

Watch "Tales from the Darkside - A Choice of Dreams" and/or "Twilight Zone - The Pool Guy", if you can. You'd like or at least appreciate them both I suspect.

Science is little more than observing with as one could assume you'd think, our limited animalesque senses to notice patterns and from there provable and repeatable events that then become scientific law. It is changing constantly. A while back the Earth was the center of the universe and flight was impossible. Ideas to the contrary would often get you ridiculed or imprisoned. In that sense faith is part of science in a way. You have faith in a theory, enough to work to prove it right.

That aside who knows maybe there are aliens. That'd be cool huh.

I've noticed most intelligent religious people have a certain line of thinking. Not quite this but I feel there are parallels. Imagine yourself as a rich, powerful, and happy man. Who's also wise. Now imagine a beautiful yet flawed woman. If you flaunt your wealth or power without first using wisdom to discern if this is really someone you want in your life, you could easily lose all three. I imagine a heaven as a place full of wise philosophers passing the time with debate and reason who are intellectually content. Or at least decent people. Wouldnt you?
NOS4A2 May 08, 2020 at 19:38 #410729
Reply to Qu King

Humans create purpose. Meaning and purpose does not arrive by any other force. So you’ll have to create a purpose for your own life or adopt someone else’s.
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 20:30 #410734
Thanks for all the great responses, I will Watch "Tales from the Darkside - A Choice of Dreams" and/or "Twilight Zone - The Pool Guy".

My point seems to have been lost here though and this thread has been about debating the issues rather than focusing on the Philosophy of preservation of ones one life as being the key point.

The illusion that there’s an afterlife is as absurd as believing there was a before life.

It doesn’t matter what you believe in the end, you die and that’s it.

Death is like before you were alive.
InPitzotl May 08, 2020 at 22:11 #410763
IMO, your perspective seems a bit off.
Quoting Qu King
What difference does it make if I die now or 100 years from now?

I'll call your 100 years and go all in... what difference does it make if you die now, or never die? If you are immortal what is the point?

You think 100 years is long... forever sounds like torture:
Marvin (from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy):The first ten million years were the worst. And the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that, I went into a decline.


Quoting Qu King
I cannot believe I am the only one that thinks like this.

You aren't, actually; lots of people feel this way. But this is just your survival instinct talking for you. Picture it not as an ideal, but a reality. Congratulations! You're now immortal. Now what? Take it seriously and see where it goes. I'm sure you'd really have a blast the first... few days. Weeks. 20 years. 500 years. Whatever number that is probably depends on you, but at some point everything is going to get incredibly monotonous. After a few hundred times the time it takes for things to get monotonous, then what?

Your survival instinct is deluding you... living for a long time no more gives you purpose than dying young robs it from you. Purpose has to do with what you do while you are alive. You remind me of my mom... every time I call her she complains about how I never talk to her. That's you... you're here, existing and living your life, but every moment you're alive (okay, that's a hyperbole; realistically, every moment you spend on this thread), you're complaining about how you won't be alive when you're not alive. That is what robs you of purpose.
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 22:45 #410778
Reply to InPitzotl Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I am deluding myself and I do agree with you and as such you must also agree that the same fantasy exists if you’re looking for immortality through religion.

I do not believe there is anything after you die, I cannot prove that, but what I do know was there was nothing before I was born (from my perspective) and I don't expect death to be any different and as such I am merely stating the obvious that nothing really matters to me.

I know it all sounds morbid but it is not. I am using strong language to emphasise my thought processes that got me thinking that the only noble cause is the self-preservation of one’s own conscious

That is what I would like to discuss.
180 Proof May 08, 2020 at 22:53 #410781
Quoting InPitzotl
Your survival instinct is deluding you... living for a long time no more gives you purpose than dying young robs it from you. Purpose has to do with what you do while you are alive.

:up:

Quoting Qu King
The brain is the most complex thing in the universe, it needs preserving and there needs to be a movement of likeminded people.

I cannot believe I am the only one that thinks like this.

Agreed. And you're not "the only one" :sweat: (below is an excerpt of a post from an old thread):

Quoting 180 Proof
(I'm planning on some sort of chemical brain preservation process rather than tissue-cellular destroying "cryonics" to hopefully keep my brain 'viable' after I die until the technology is (if it's ever) ready for prime time.)
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 22:53 #410782
Reply to Andrew4Handel Thanks for responding, I am basing my own opinion in only what I know.
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:03 #410785
Quoting Qu King
I am basing my own opinion in only what I know.


That's a refreshing change. So many here base their opinions on what they don't know.
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:05 #410788
Quoting Qu King
The single most important thing is preservation of your own life.


That's bullshit. You just made that up. As if you could just choose what really matters...
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:07 #410791
Reply to Banno Please re-read, the post says nothing matters unless....
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:10 #410793
Reply to Qu King It sure does. But you give no reason to desier the preservation of your own life. You simply drop it in, arbitrarily.

Do you think you can choose just anything to be the purpose of life? Why this, and not, say, the consumption of potato chips?

180 Proof May 08, 2020 at 23:13 #410795
Quoting Qu King
NOTHING MATTERS.
EVER.

:roll:

Quoting 180 Proof
Does anything truly matter?
— Cidat
No - especially this question. :yawn:


Quoting Banno
Do you think you can choose just anything to be the purpose of life? Why this, and not, say, the consumption of potato chips?

:scream: :rofl:

Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:23 #410798
Reply to Banno Your logic is flawed, I agree I perhaps I should have worded it better but how can I view consuming potato chips the same as wanting to preserve my consciousness.

I keep thinking someone will invent something soon and take this seriously but I am not seeing it.

When you get the likes of Hawking’s sadly passing away, who was part machine part human, it seems a tragic waste of a brilliant mind. I just wish there was a way that he could have survived.
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:28 #410799
Quoting Qu King
...how can I view consuming potato chips the same as wanting to preserve my consciousness.


So... you are undermining the premise of your title by claiming that your consciousness is more important than potato chips.

QED.

Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:30 #410800
Reply to 180 Proof Not getting a lot off support here buddy. The thought of dying scares the hell out of me I don't know how you feel about it. Would it not comfort you in some small way if you knew that someone was working on a solution to keep your brain alive beating death?
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:31 #410801
Reply to Banno You confusing the hell out me man! You don't make sense or I am not explainig it properly...
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:34 #410803
Quoting Qu King
You confusing the hell out me man!


You wanted to do some philosophy. What did you expect?

Quoting Qu King
The thought of dying scares the hell out of me


So what? Why would that elevate it above eating potato chips? After all,

Quoting Qu King
Nothing matters


Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:41 #410804
Reply to Banno Ha ha, you are a joker and I appreciate you picking up the flaws in my grammer that allow you ask those sorts of questions that attempt to undermine the point i am trying to make.

Maybe I just need to reword it properly
DingoJones May 08, 2020 at 23:45 #410805
Reply to Qu King

Well he isnt pointing out your flawed grammar, rather your flawed logic.
It is contradictory for you to say nothing matters, then claim one thing (consciousness) matters more than another thing (eating chips).
How exactly is something not important and more important at the same time?
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:46 #410806
Reply to Qu King The point of my reply is to show you that the notion that nothing matters cannot be maintained with any degree of coherence; and further that what matters is itself a moral decision that you must make.

In choosing the preservation of your own consciousness you are choosing to be governed by your fear of death.
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:47 #410807
Reply to DingoJones Nuh. Potato chips matter.

I've run out of potato chips.
neonspectraltoast May 08, 2020 at 23:50 #410808
Everything is golden and eternal. It does matter. You just don't want to believe it matters.
DingoJones May 08, 2020 at 23:52 #410810
Reply to Banno

Ya, it was the first thing I ran out of.
How is what matters a moral choice? Some things that matter aren’t even a choice at all.
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:54 #410811
Reply to Banno This again is due to bad grammar because the sentence should say that Nothing Really Matters to me because I have no faith in any religion, I don't believe in an afterlife and yes I am being governed by my fear of death but I want that to give me a purpose and I am seeking likeminded people. I cannot be alone in my thinking.

I appreciate the banter with you but you focus on the detail and not the message..
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:55 #410812
Quoting DingoJones
Some things that matter aren’t even a choice at all.


Such as?
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:57 #410813
Reply to neonspectraltoast Hi, Please explain....
Qu King May 08, 2020 at 23:57 #410814
Reply to Banno Yes, I second that, like what?
Banno May 08, 2020 at 23:58 #410815
Quoting Qu King
I want that to give me a purpose


Why that?

So for example why not take a Stoic approach to death and cultivate acceptance of it as a necessity of life?
Qu King May 09, 2020 at 00:00 #410816
Reply to Banno Because you still die and in my mind, all I achieve and learn will be lost so what's the bloody point?
Deleted User May 09, 2020 at 00:03 #410817
.
Banno May 09, 2020 at 00:06 #410819
Quoting Qu King
...all I achieve and learn will be lost

So what? Why is that important?

Again, only because you give it import.
Banno May 09, 2020 at 00:07 #410821


Reply to ZzzoneiroCosm
Here, @Qu King, you see a style of philosophising that we in the trade call "Just Making Shit Up".
Qu King May 09, 2020 at 00:08 #410822
[reply="Banno;] That is precious to me, I can't talk for you but I am amazed you asked that question.
Deleted User May 09, 2020 at 00:14 #410827
Quoting Banno
Here, Qu King, you see a style of philosophising that we in the trade call "Just Making Shit Up".


:razz:
Always a kind word.

It's good to make shit up sometimes to test the limits of the imagination.

"Ever expanding in the Bosom of God, the Human Imagination. (Jerusalem, I, 5; p. 554)1."

Know that I have rescinded. It has been an exciting spring.
Banno May 09, 2020 at 00:18 #410831
Reply to ZzzoneiroCosm Did I say that making shit up was a bad thing? I've nothing against it, provided it is honest toil. But I will take issue with those who pretend the shit they make up is real.

Banno May 09, 2020 at 00:19 #410832
Quoting Qu King
That is precious to me, I can't talk for you but I am amazed you asked that question.


Ok, so it is for you in some way fundamental.

We could change tack somewhat and discuss the difficulties with that.
Outlander May 09, 2020 at 00:26 #410836
Reply to Qu King

That's why you don't just do things for your own foolish enjoyment and pleasure.

Yeah you can work like crazy and gain enough money to buy a giant house, cars, and go on crazy vacations. Or. You can do something to benefit what's important to you.

Say you like philosophy. You can use your wealth or influence to maybe create a school or foundation to advance that interest. If you really care about it and you die and can't be around to see it and get admiration, boo hoo. Others will benefit from your work and maybe even think back and be like... man
That guy was cool. If that's so important.
neonspectraltoast May 09, 2020 at 00:26 #410837
I can't explain. It diminishes the fact. Anyone who has an eye for truth can see the plain truth of it. Or you can go the way of the OP and insist everything is bullshit. You don't function that way, though, do you? Wonder why.
Deleted User May 09, 2020 at 00:27 #410838
Quoting Banno
But I will take issue with those who pretend the shit they make up is real.


I have no illusions about what is real. It's almost a white canvas.
Banno May 09, 2020 at 00:32 #410841
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
I have no illusions about what is real.


:grin:
ernestm May 09, 2020 at 00:54 #410847
Quoting Qu King
I was deeply religious for many years before I started to learn to ask the right questions.


Well welcome aboard. As introductory advice, you may want to click 'reply' at the bottom of a comment when you write something in response, so that the board sends a notification to the commenter. Maybe it takes a couple of tries to get right )

You might find that philosophy is often about discovering there are better questions than the ones you thought were right to ask in the firust place. I hope you discover some nice friends here.
DingoJones May 09, 2020 at 01:14 #410862
Reply to Banno

Well it depends on where exactly the choice is being made I guess. I had in mind things beyond ones sphere of control, things like hunger or adversity that you get no decision about but of course you have decisions once you encounter the adversity. To me there are needs, wants, and things that matter outside the purview of morality, but your comment made me think you might have a different view, where morality can be connected to anything that matters.
So...how is what matters a moral choice?
Banno May 09, 2020 at 01:28 #410870
Reply to Outlander Your point is sound. @Qu King's argument is egocentric.
Banno May 09, 2020 at 01:31 #410871
Quoting DingoJones
how is what matters a moral choice?


Because there is an alternative.

The fact of hunger gives way to the choice of stewed vegetables or stewed babies... or potato chips.
DingoJones May 09, 2020 at 01:33 #410872
Reply to Banno

I dont follow how there being an alternative makes domething moral. How would you define morality?
Banno May 09, 2020 at 01:48 #410875
Reply to DingoJones Isn't ethics about what one ought choose?

DingoJones May 09, 2020 at 01:53 #410877
Reply to Banno

Its about ethical choices sure, but not all choices are ethical unless you have some differing idea about ethics, hence asking you to define morality.
Im just curious about the original statement I responded to.
JohnnySocket May 09, 2020 at 13:38 #411000
Ah very good topic. My answer to this question is informed by some existential philosophers, especially Heidegger, Nietzsche, and Sartre.

So, in one sense you are kind of right. If we take a mental step back and evaluate life from a 3rd person view, we do not know if there is any meaning to human life, and it doesn't seem like there is.

However, from a first-person point of view, there is plenty of meaning. I enjoy nature, for example. Everything I do is meaningful if it allows me to do more of the things i enjoy doing. For example, I detest working at my current job, but it is meaningful because it supports me while i go to college to do something I will enjoy.

I think the whole "life is meaningless" thing comes from the way society teaches us to evaluate things. If something doesn't serve some goal, it's useless. For example, a lumberjack may be conditioned to see a tree as just material for building a house, and if it isn't good house-building wood, it's useless. Yet, this type of thinking is shallow. When we think this way, we lose our ability to connect to nature in a fundamental way, a way that is best expressed by poetry.

"life is meaningless" arises if we only tend to the rational side of human nature. We have learned that we must constantly have some justification for everything, but why do we need to justify what we enjoy? Why do i enjoy video games? because it's fun. Why should i beleive its fun? Who cares? it just is. Not to say that inquiry into why cant be useful in some contexts, but in others it can ruin the experiential side of human existence. To assume i must have a reason for everything is pathological and is a sign of an anxiety disorder, not intelligence. Rationality is not the only part of human experience.

So, in summary, is life objectively meaningless? I think so. However, this is an inauthentic way of living because it prioritizes society's way of valuing things over my own subjective experience. I do not live outside of life, looking in. I live inside of life where i find plenty of meaning if i tend to my whole expereince of being human, and not overuse my rational capabilities to reduce my experience to nothing.
DoppyTheElv June 28, 2020 at 17:53 #429312
Reply to 180 Proof
What kind of treatment is that? Is it even possible?
unenlightened June 28, 2020 at 20:03 #429350
Quoting Banno
Did I say that making shit up was a bad thing? I've nothing against it, provided it is honest toil. But I will take issue with those who pretend the shit they make up is real.


You just made this up didn't you? I always pretend the shit I make up is real - life is more fun if you take it seriously.
180 Proof June 28, 2020 at 20:28 #429351
Quoting DoppyTheElv
?180 Proof
What kind of treatment is that? Is it even possible?

It seems so. (See here)
DoppyTheElv June 28, 2020 at 21:20 #429357
Reply to 180 Proof
I know that Cryonics cost like 200K--And their work ethic is dubious.
Do you really think this'll be out in time?
Outlander June 28, 2020 at 21:54 #429358
I dunno. Just declare some more facts on a whim until there is. I mean really? :lol:

Really though the word is discernment. Rationality separates the two I believe.
Banno June 28, 2020 at 22:43 #429360
Quoting unenlightened
I always pretend the shit I make up is real - life is more fun if you take it seriously.


You're far too modest. Not everything you make up is shite.
180 Proof June 28, 2020 at 22:56 #429363
Reply to DoppyTheElv I don't know. It's a plausible alternative to cryonics; animal trials looks promising so far. I'm 50something so it'd please me greatly if this was a thing in the next 20-30 years or sooner.
Wheatley June 28, 2020 at 23:07 #429368
Quoting Qu King
What is the purpose
Nothing matters
We die
Before we were born there was nothing
The universe is nothing to me when I die
Why do I care
Why does anyone care
They all die
We live in a made up world with rules and laws invented to control people
What difference does it make if I die now or 100 years from now?
I still die
There is no religion, it’s a lie
There are no ghosts, it’s a lie
There is no magic, it’s a con
There is no afterlife
You die.

Do you at least enjoy your life? If you can live your relatively short stretch of time with great fulfillment, you’re a winner. Life is about winning. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Quoting Qu King
So what is the f**king point in anything?

It’s like some cruel joke and everyone is swimming in a sea of fog of denial where where they act as is they are in control.

I have these thought in my mind all the time, don’t tell me I’m depressed because I’m not. Medicating this away is not the answer. I want the world to face reality. Face the facts.
NOTHING MATTERS.
EVER. .

Having sex matters, eating a good meal matters, having friends and family matters.

Quoting Qu King
Unless…
The single most important thing is preservation of your own life.
Science is the only answer, not some mumbo jumbo faith BS religion but pure science.
There needs to be a movement that with all the knowledge and wealth in the world that exists today this is what we need to be focusing on. Here are my idea’s:

Initially, find a way to extend our life when our body can no longer cope and the idea’s I had was to preserver the head and keep the brain alive and hook it up to something like the Neuro Link that Elon musk is working on.

Keep you body cryogenically frozen for preservation of your DNA.
When the technology is ready, create a clone of yourself and using a more advanced neuro link connect yourself to that clone.

Your head needs to be protecting in some fortress and with the advancement of Robotics you can neuro lace to a robot too.

The brain is the most complex thing in the universe, it needs preserving and there needs to be a movement of likeminded people.

I cannot believe I am the only one that thinks like this.

That’s all up to society, isn’t it? The best thing to do is to get the most enjoyment out of life.