If we do not turn our love of self to our hate of self, we are bound for our near extinction.
If we do not turn our love of self to our hate of self, we are bound for our near extinction.
Science has shown that the good in us, our love side, is dominating us via our selfish gene.
Science is also showing us that we are in a major extinction event that may well include a vast number of people. I doubt that our full extinction will come to pass, but we will be reduced to such small numbers that we will likely revert to a less sophisticated system and city states.
If we do not turn our swords into plows, and devastate the worlds populations with war, our environment will do the deed and near extinct us.
We love our governments and gods. That is why we have let them bring us to the brink of extinction. We follow them so closely that we all have our heads stuck into the ground.
I think, given the incompetence of all governments and gods; we should let our great love for what leads us and turn it to hate, as we should, to insure the survival of people right here and right now. Start to hate the systems that got us all to this pitiful place in time.
We presently elect our incompetent governments and gods for a variety of reasons. We are all tribal and belong to a religious tribe or a government tribe. We all follow their ideologies, theologies or philosophies. We are all the same in this.
Surely, given that we are basically all humans, who wish to love more than hate, can hate those things that are putting us all in peril long enough to do something about our head long leap to near extinction.
The environment is under political control and they are killing our bodies. Our bodies harbor our souls to the physical world where our children live.
I think it is time for a god to take over.
I don’t care if it is a pedophile protecting Pope or a united Christianity, or newly elected Khalif of a newly united Islam, but a god must step up, as our political side has failed humankind completely.
Our politicians are not uniting the world and should be made to step down so that some form of religious system, chosen by the masses, so that we can try uniting under a newly elected god.
Jesus prophesied that that would become a necessity, and so did Socrates before him. Both were right in thinking that such a system would be the best possible end for political theories.
I urge the vast majority of the world, the religious, to have a final battle in the ongoing god wars, which involves our political gods as well. Let their hate out by debate and elect a new god of peace so that our current incompetent batch of leaders might find the best one.
My love of the religious has let loose my hate against our incompetent political leadership and I think we all should, elect a new god and save us from our own near extinction.
We have the means; do we have the will?
Regards
DL
Science has shown that the good in us, our love side, is dominating us via our selfish gene.
Science is also showing us that we are in a major extinction event that may well include a vast number of people. I doubt that our full extinction will come to pass, but we will be reduced to such small numbers that we will likely revert to a less sophisticated system and city states.
If we do not turn our swords into plows, and devastate the worlds populations with war, our environment will do the deed and near extinct us.
We love our governments and gods. That is why we have let them bring us to the brink of extinction. We follow them so closely that we all have our heads stuck into the ground.
I think, given the incompetence of all governments and gods; we should let our great love for what leads us and turn it to hate, as we should, to insure the survival of people right here and right now. Start to hate the systems that got us all to this pitiful place in time.
We presently elect our incompetent governments and gods for a variety of reasons. We are all tribal and belong to a religious tribe or a government tribe. We all follow their ideologies, theologies or philosophies. We are all the same in this.
Surely, given that we are basically all humans, who wish to love more than hate, can hate those things that are putting us all in peril long enough to do something about our head long leap to near extinction.
The environment is under political control and they are killing our bodies. Our bodies harbor our souls to the physical world where our children live.
I think it is time for a god to take over.
I don’t care if it is a pedophile protecting Pope or a united Christianity, or newly elected Khalif of a newly united Islam, but a god must step up, as our political side has failed humankind completely.
Our politicians are not uniting the world and should be made to step down so that some form of religious system, chosen by the masses, so that we can try uniting under a newly elected god.
Jesus prophesied that that would become a necessity, and so did Socrates before him. Both were right in thinking that such a system would be the best possible end for political theories.
I urge the vast majority of the world, the religious, to have a final battle in the ongoing god wars, which involves our political gods as well. Let their hate out by debate and elect a new god of peace so that our current incompetent batch of leaders might find the best one.
My love of the religious has let loose my hate against our incompetent political leadership and I think we all should, elect a new god and save us from our own near extinction.
We have the means; do we have the will?
Regards
DL
Comments (34)
So you are saying if we don't have a unified world government we'll go to war? My assumption based on previous posts, you believe this unified government should be a pseudo capitalist/socialist combination similar to modern China or just socialist?
How do you feel about movies like "V for Vendetta"? I only use a movie for an example because your plan lacks the question of "who is watching the watcher?" from George Orwell.
How much of our garbage do you want to pass up to your children?
China's interests are well met with laïcité French style. For now, I like what China is doing they are fighting fascist religions with fascist programs.
Regards
DL
We are the enemy of the environment and should hate what we do to it. I do not separate what we do from what we are, so hate whatever you like of those two options.
Quoting Coben
Yes, as we are allowing our default position of love to rule us when I think we should let our hate for what we hate rule us and move us to do the right thing for the future generations, if it is not already too late to mitigate that harm.
Quoting Coben
Are we not a part of the systems we should hate?
Take us out of it and all you can hate is the system. I don't care as long as we get the people running those systems. It always comes down to us. We are our systems.
Regards
DL
Quoting Gnostic Christian BishopI guess that my gut reaction is that self-hate will nto improve things and I see self-hate as causal in the way we damage the environment. Our disenchantment and disconnection from nature is a form of self-hatred since we are a part of nature. It is a part of disregarding ourselves. Just as shitting on our mother would be a form of self-hatred. I get what you mean, and I can sort of accept it as provocation, but as a real suggestion I think it just muddles the issue. People hating themselves will have even less contact with themselves, wan
t more distraction and use more energy and create more garbage,since they have no idea how to live.Quoting Gnostic Christian BishopI was pointing out that the argument you used was appealing to our self-love and encouraging us to treat ourselves well by not destroying the environment. In the context of saying we need to hate ourselves, it is precisely the opposite approach you then take.Quoting Gnostic Christian BishopYes and no, and to varying degrees person to person. If you said something like we should hate our disconnection with nature or hate what we do in relation to nature when we X, that's one thing. But you start with a general, we should start to hate ourselves. I can tell you that I know that hating myself more will not help the planet in the slightest. Their may be people who in a core way hate their mother planet and they need to hate some of their current practices and values. Fine. But that we all need to hate ourselves more which would mean love ourselves less is NOT something I think would be remotely good for anyone or anything in my case. In fact if I and my wife hated ourselves more tomorrow, I think it would only serve the ones who really hate life and nature. For much the same reason I dislike the way various religions teach self-hate (while denying it) I dislike this encouragement to self-hate, however much I appreciate the goal of getting us to where we will treat nature better. It's nothing for me. And it just creates even more problems for us to unravel. It is as if those who hate and destroy nature and want to hang on to those practices and do not, like me, grieve what is happening, are showing self-love in their relationship with the planet. They are not. They may think so, but they are wrong. They might as well be hitting themselves in the face with a hammer. I see little self love in them. They don't even know themselves.
Quoting Gnostic Christian BishopWhich are filled with self-hate. And the members of that we are all kinds of different things. If you think hating yourself more will help the planet, well, do that. Hate yourself more. I am skeptical that will clean up one plastic bag in the ocean, or create legislation that is much more careful with nano-tech pollution. But I don't know what you will do if you start hating yourself (more).
I do know however that my hating myself will not protect a single leaf.
Could we find some grounding in what your belief structure is? For instance: what distinction are you pointing at when describing "self love" vs "self hate". I'm assuming this has become a semantics issue.
You want to hate many things, to improve things, yet ignore that it is mankind who is doing the destroying and should be hated.
We default to loving ourselves and each other and unless we change to what you dislike, nothing will change.
Love more like scriptures tell you to love, which is the way I love.
Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
You do not seem to want to love that much.
Regards
DL
Not really semantics to me, but I may have answered you with my last reply. Let me know.
What I am trying to do is have people think in the way this scripture shows.
https://biblehub.com/romans/7-15.htm
Regards
DL
One of the excellent things about Kierkegaard's Works of Love is his insistence that we love one another.
The assignment of such a task is also the acceptance of how difficult it is.
That element is more important to me than figuring out the meaning of historical struggles.
Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop
Nope, I don't ignore that.
Quoting Gnostic Christian BishopSo, what you are saying is 'my idea that we hate ourselves is the only approach that can work.' I don't think that approach will work, even the slightest. Good luck telling people to hate themselves. Let us know what your successes are with that approach here. You can post them in the thread. Along with the science or other evidence it is a worthy approach.
[quote="Gnostic Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop
Correceth, is not hateth. And in current English to correct is not to hate and that father no doubt loves his son. And don't tell me how to love as if you know how I love - my son, my self, others. Nothing I have said even remotely implies I do not correceth. As you should know from your own experience.Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop
No, what happened is I didn't agree with you and so you just assume a bunch of stuff. You're just another internet narcissist who cannot be criticized and so makes up stuff to justify not learning anything from others. iOW you cannot be correctethed. Which means a part of love you cannot experience.
Mind your own hole, junior league ump.
Regards
DL
He can insist all he likes.
Go ahead and explain how you would show your love to the rapist on your wife.
What of all the Christians who love a genocidal god?
Is that them loving their enemy?
You are positing an unconditional love and there is no such thing. It is not natural as love always has conditions to be real love. Like the need for reciprocity, works and deeds, which BTW, is how Jesus defined love.
Regards
DL
I never indicated it was while quoting that it is the loving thing to do. Reading comprehension is good.
Quoting Coben
Loving sure has not worked. I did not qualify my views as the only approach. Stop putting you lies into my mouth, please.
As to your personal psychobabble. Shove it.
Regards
DL
Quoting Gnostic Christian BishopThat first sentence is pretty much unitelligible. In the context of our discussion about hating ourselves, you plop in a quote from scripture - appealing to the authority of books that you consider to be problematic - about a father correcting.
As if anything I said implied one should not correct or correcteth someone.
You implicitly conflated correcting someone with hating them.
Again, no responsibility for your own sloppy thinking as assumptions.
Quoting Gnostic Christian BishopI did, right up yours.
And no response of substance at all anywhere, as per usual. Just shifting to other things, reasserting yourself and denying.
You are not a person who has the answers to saving the world.
You can't even manage a decent discussion without your surly assumptive bs.
Regards
DL
Might we not merely be annoyed with ourselves, or find ourselves dull or fractious, in order to survive?
I could correct you, but I see no point.
We are already as you describe and things are getting worse. I would add stupid to your list.
Regards
DL
If you thought it, you sinned. So says Jesus. Repent foul sinner. ;-)
Regards
DL
Thanks for showing your lying character.
You won this debate.
Regards
DL
In my opinion we both lost.
i'm sorry Christian Bishop, can you tell Jesus for me?
I'm not surprised you do not know him.
Scriptures show you how to know him but you are not interested in following the dictates of a moral man.
Too much of it goes against Christian beliefs.
Regards
DL
this is an online forum. How do you know how i act outside this forum? How would i prove if you are ethical and how would i prove if im ethical. Have you ever heard the phrase "lip service"?
I did not speak of that.
Quoting christian2017
I would know your moral thinking by what you say. You could lie, sure, but your words are what I would be evaluating.
Regards
DL
I asked you these questions earlier but you accused me with your age old phrase "your spew"
Would you like to answer these questions. Here they are once again?
You said you like a challenge many times. Can you answer these questions.
1. How do you feel about ancient temple prostitution in ancient Iraq.
2. Are you aware Joshua didn't commit genocide because there were plenty of Amorite cities in ancient Iraq at the time of Joshua. ~1300 BC.
3. If you killed someone's parents (Amorite/Canaanite) are you supposed to tell the surviving child "i murdered your parents, when you are a teenager you'll understand these adult things"
4. were there adoption agencies in the 2nd millenium?
5. Would you argue some behavior is worthy of capital punishment?
6. Were you aware that the Amorites were known for child sacrifice? The later Jews were too and i understand that . The Bible speaks against that.
7. Would you say the Amorite children (non-adults) went to heaven (assuming there is a heaven) after they were killed by the Israelites? I would say they would considering there is no explicit statement saying the children did anything relatively wrong nor does it say they suffered after they died. No explicit statement nor implied statement either.
Your two quotes above contradict each other in light of the fact that, what people say isn't always what they do. This is a commonly understood concept in our society. Whence when i said earlier "lip service".
Are you aware genocide was very common among all cultures in ancient society's assuming Joshua commited genocide?
How does genocide directly (as opposed to indirectly) relate to the teachings of Jesus Christ? Is the Roman Papacy a good way to judge Christianity?
They were a major part of the economy and had their a great value and the respect of the people.
Quoting christian2017
Genocide need not be a complete decimation of a people. Jews were never close to full extinction but we use genocide to express what happened to them. Jews see Yahweh as evil for some of his instruction to cause destruction.
Quoting christian2017
Only if you are stupid.
Quoting christian2017
Sure.
Quoting christian2017
Yes, but only if it is to prevent murder. I do not believe in capital punishment as a nation cannot be seen as revering life if they are taking it. Saving some via murder shows the veneration of life. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few.
Quoting christian2017
Where city states had finite resources, it was either kill the new babies or kill the workers who were more important than another hungry mouth that could not feed itself. Baby sacrifices were kept to a minimum and that was helped along by the Temple Prostitutes and the religions that tried to sanctify sex between men and their wives so as to keep pregnancies to a minimum. History has overblown the numbers as most nations did not have to do much of it. Killing babies is revolting to all people and it was only done in dire times.
Quoting christian2017
There was no heaven at that time. Just shoal, the grave, if I recall correctly. Christianity invented heaven and hell only much latter.
Quoting christian2017
Christianity, like all entities, are to be judged on their moral thinking and ethical actions, regardless of their belief in imaginary gods.
As to Jesus and his return, I adlib. Choose me as god or die. That is genocide of all non-believers.
Regards
DL
All your answers point to these questions indicate you are apart of a messed up religion. Lets go through them one at a time.
So you are saying any from of prostitution is alright? Or just temple prostitution if it helps the economy?
You have no reason whatsoever to accuse all christians of being satanic. Based on your answers (because you accused me of being satanic many times), you are every bit as Satanic as any Roman Pope supporter.
If Amorites engaged in Temple Prostitution that justifies their nation in getting destroyed. Where there is temple prostitution there very often is pedaphilia just in case you didn't know. And you said you are against pedaphilia. Temple prostitution in and of itself is bad enough.
Many Many Many times have you said bad stuff about the Roman Papacy. I agree with you the Roman Papacy has many problems.
2. When Joshua killed the Amorites in Canaan the goal was not to kill all the Amorites but specific city states due to their excessive wickedness. This was actually very common among all peoples of the ancient world". Are you familiar with the "Irish book of Invastions"?
your response below:
"Are you aware Joshua didn't commit genocide because there were plenty of Amorite cities in ancient Iraq at the time of Joshua. ~1300 BC.
— christian2017
Genocide need not be a complete decimation of a people. Jews were never close to full extinction but we use genocide to express what happened to them. Jews see Yahweh as evil for some of his instruction to cause destruction."
3. the point of number 3 is you can't raise someone elses to teenager hood if you killed their parents.
4. What makes you think their were adoption agencies in ~1300 bc.
5. So you are saying war is never justified. Joshua didn't commit genocide, he attacked specific city states.
6. you answer to number 6 tells me in my mind that you are in line with the Roman Papacy which you claim you are against. I have no reason to believe your ethics are better than the ethics of a typical christian. But since this is an online forum we'll both continue to go back and forth discussing your crap.
7. "Would you say the Amorite children (non-adults) went to heaven
— christian2017
There was no heaven at that time. Just shoal, the grave, if I recall correctly. Christianity invented heaven and hell only much latter.
How does genocide directly (as opposed to indirectly) relate to the teachings of Jesus Christ? Is the Roman Papacy a good way to judge Christianity?"
Chrisianity didn't make up hell, it dates back to the time "the epic of gilgamesh" was written if not before. Alot of what you believe about Christianity is common unproven crap said on college campuses. Heaven is talked about in the later books of the old testament including the book of Isaiah.
I am not interested in reversing all your asinine assumption, especially when you associate me with a religion other than my own.
.
I am also not interested in your lies or attempts to justify your a hole god's genocides based on faith instead of morals.
Regards
DL
I am not interested in reversing all your asinine assumptions, especially when you associate me with a concept of a religion other than my own.
I am also not interested in your banal thinking that sounds like an 18 years old view of all religions, to justify abortion, rape, and temple prostitution based on semi-post-modernist concept of right and wrong.