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How to become an overman

Rystiya March 06, 2020 at 14:07 10325 views 58 comments General Philosophy
How do our minds work?
'The will to survive' drives our mind to react to external stimulations, just like animals. Things changed when a person becomes aware of himself when he is an infant. 'I exist and I’m observing the world. I am different from my body, and the world which is being observed', this idea is 'self-awareness'. Self-awareness enlightens and delights each person like a shining sun. It enables us to joy for our strength and goodness, and to feel sad for our weaknesses and hardship. It let us become the only creatures aware of the fact that we are living in a chaotic and uncaring world, and thus have the motivation improve our living condition by learning, working and trading.
Self-awareness generates 'the will to power', just like a sun emits light. 'I come to this world not to be enslaved by it, but to pursue meaning in it', this idea is the will to power. Here, ‘meaning’ is what makes us experience joy and peace instead of shame and regret when we confront our self-awareness, and ‘power’ is the ability to dominate our own purpose, lifestyle and fate. We label concepts which promote the pursuit of meaning as goodness and beauty, while label concepts which hinder the pursuit of meaning as evil and ugliness. The will to power enables a person to like goodness and dislike evil, to like beauty and dislike ugliness, to pursue strength, dignity and freedom. To follow and practice it is the fate of every human being, and no one can abandon it without hurting his own feeling. As a result, it makes us happier to admit the meanings we can achieve lacks quantity and certainty (like studying, working, having children) than to never pursue meaning (like keep playing computer games 16 hours a day).
The will to power generates 'the force of life', just like the light brings energy. 'I shall protect what I love and destroy what I hate, so as to give my limited life meaning', this idea is the force of life. Here, it is important to notice that healthy love always points to concepts which promote the pursuit of meaning, while healthy hatred always points to concepts which hinder the pursuit of meaning. The force of life gives a person the strength to conduct good deeds and constructive work. It protects us from despair and the hate for life in times of busyness and hardship.
While Nietzsche have a terrifying god called the will to power, I have a lovely and heavenly trinity goddess, named ‘self-awareness, the will to power and the force of life’ (I call them goddesses not because they have super natural power, but because I hope we can accept them as something valuable, beautiful and benevolent, despite the self-doubt and self-hate many of us might have accumulated in their lives)! They are just three simple ideas, yet they can be interpreted by an unlimited number of ways in different contexts, and an unlimited number of ideas can be derived from them. Everyone has these three great ideas (or ‘the trinity goddess’), although a person does not need to be aware of their existence. Nietzsche only knew about the will to power, which is not enough, because we can't understand her if we don't know about her mother and daughter! As a result, Nietzsche didn’t find out who she is, didn’t know how to find and strengthen her, and was unable to distinguish her from the desire to dominate others and the supposed power which dominates the universe.
Self-awareness, the will to power and the force of life have inspired the creation of the concept of 'trinity'. Their similarities include but not limited to: ‘the son’ flow out of ‘the father’ and brings ‘the spirit’, while the will to power flow out of self-awareness and brings the force of life; ‘the father’ creates the world, while self-awareness let us be aware of our own existence; ‘the son’ brings salvation while the will to power lift our purpose of living to mere survival to the pursuit of meaning; ‘the spirit’ gave spiritual strength and comfort to people, and so does the force of life. Although my trinity goddess is not as powerful as the trinity god, they are real, understandable and perceivable. They shaped the mind of humanity, their existence is the best definition of 'being human', and instead of condemning any of us, they are always awaiting us to find embrace them like sleeping beauty.
All our gods, idols and moral principles are the product of mistaken the three great ideas (or ‘goddesses’) in our minds for external entities. That explains why gods are spiritual and good (by humans’ standards), why they care about and similar to humans (in terms of moral standards, emotions and way of thinking), and why they can (at least seemingly) improve our spiritual conditions as we obey them, although they bring little physical benefits. As these three great ideas are the source of our internal goodness and strength, mistaken them as external entities or suppress them with materialism (which is not backed up by science) could cause lack of passion, lack of confidence, self-hate and other negative results in the long term.


What’s wrong with us?
As we have self-awareness, the will to power and the force of life, we should have a world where everyone is spiritually free and sincere. Something has gone wrong!
Well, if a person suspects that he can't or didn't practice his will to power (by pursuing meaning), he will generate a feeling called 'guilt', which makes him lose the courage to confront his self-awareness! As the will to power comes from self-awareness, this further weakens his will to power, and strengthen his guilt. So at last, he has a self-worsening cycle of guilt and weakness! Guilt makes weakness, weakness makes more guilt... So sad! I call it 'cycle of weakness'.
Cycle of weakness has disastrous effects on our mind. It hides self-awareness, weakens the will to power, and suppresses the force of life. It clouds the sun and poisons the soil, transforming our mind into a sunless wasteland.
We still have self-awareness, though, so we feel bad about ourselves. We don't know how to change ourselves, and we have forgotten our will to power and force of life. We can only remember that we were happier and purer when we were a child. As a result, some of us (such as those guys with alt-right political opinions) pretend fighting against weakness by humiliating or hurting those who are inferior to them (sometimes only in their imagination). Some of us (such as those guys with alt-left political opinions) pretend to be strong by gaining a sense of moral or power superiority from unrealistic while seemingly glorious ideals. Some of us let idols like power, money, authority and rulers become their meaning of life. Some of us let others define the meaning of their lives at will by blindly devoting themselves to religions and ideologies.
What Christians call ‘sin’, I call it cycle of weakness. It is the source of most, if not all of our spiritual issues. Christians believe that sin is separation from God, and I believe cycle of weakness is inability to confront self-awareness. Christians believe that sin made it difficult for us to recognize God, and I believe cycle of weakness made it difficult for us to find the trinity goddess, who are sleeping and waiting in the depth of our unconsciousness! They do have an important difference, though. While ‘sin’ sounds like ‘our faults and flaws’, ‘cycle of weakness’ is a difficulty or disease. The god of cycle of weakness is a black dragon named ‘Bahamut’, it blocks our self-awareness, bends our will to power and trample on our force of life. It is he who granted the dragon named ‘you should’ (mentioned by Nietzsche in his work) strength and influence, not the opposite.


How to fix ourselves?
Some people believe that their own feelings, desires and emotions are enemies which hinders their pursuit of meaning. They keep fighting against themselves, wasting their already weakened will to power in self-torture. Some people want to practice their will to power, even though they are unaware of its existence. As a result, they mistaken their will to power for external moral principles. Their remaining will to power says it's a bad idea to steal or kill, so they think the god (or something like god) says they shouldn't steal or kill! They try to make themselves and other people obey the principles they have 'found', and that makes their cycle of weakness even stronger and makes their will to power even weaker!
So, what are the right things to do? Well, all we need is three virtues called liberty, goodness and straight.
First, our strength is limited and our life is short. Yet no matter how a person is, his self-awareness always exists. Whenever he temporarily forgets his guilt and try to feel his own existence, the will to power (along with delight, comfort and dignity) will flow out of his self-awareness like a fountain. Therefore, self-awareness and the will to power are strong and reliable. The will to power is the source of our desire for goodness and meaning, while evil and weakness is nothing more than its decline. Therefore, the will to power is beautiful and lovely. If a person is aware of these facts, he will regain his courage to confront his self-awareness. Then his will to power will regain strength and his guilt will decline, which makes him feel joyful and peaceful. I call this 'liberty'.
Second, if a person practices his will to power by doing something meaningful, he will gain healthy pleasure. Healthy pleasure gives us long lasting hope and happiness. When we confront our self-awareness, our healthy pleasure makes us feel as if everything in our life is beautiful and let us love ourselves (If this does not happen, it’s probably because a person does not think he did something meaningful from the bottom of his heart). If a person does something harmful to the pursuit of meaning regardless of his will to power, he can only gain unhealthy pleasure. Unhealthy pleasure can only give us short lived happiness. When such happiness is gone, it is replaced by negative feelings like shame, regret, emptiness, etc. When we confront our self-awareness, our unhealthy pleasure makes us feel as if everything in our life is hopeless, and let us hate ourselves. If a person is aware of the difference between healthy and unhealthy pleasure, he will thirst for the former and be tired of the latter. Then he will gain the internal motivation to practice his will to power, as well as keeping a clear mind and avoid being lost. I call this 'goodness'.
Third, when a person is going to practice his will to power, the external world will hinder him with difficulties and mislead him with lies. Meanwhile, his will to power will give him a tendency to love good or beautiful entities and spirits, and despise evil or ugly entities and spirits. If a person accepts such righteous tendency like a worrier receiving a weapon, force of life will emerge within him, filling his mind with fresh energy and new ideas (If this does not happen, it’s probably because a person misunderstands the will to power). The force of life will help him defeat the difficulties and lies the external world throws at him! I call this 'straight'.
What do I have here? I have an atheism version of 'faith, hope and love'! I believe that the effects which 'liberty, goodness and straight' and 'faith, hope and love' have on our minds are quite similar, although they sound totally different. For example, ‘feel our own existence and let the will to power flow out of self-awareness’ have similar effects with ‘worship Jesus as son of god’, ‘thirst for healthy pleasure and be tired of unhealthy ones’ have similar effects with ‘be hopeful about the heaven’; ‘receive the force of life and use it to overcome difficulties’ have similar effects with ‘let holy spirit fill your body and give you strength and healing’. A person who achieve 'liberty, goodness and straight' will become spiritually strong and pure, free of guilt and filled with the force of life. I call such people 'proto-overman'.
By defeating a range of difficulties and lies and devoting himself entirely to the pursuit of meaning (which is god for Jesus), Jesus looks like a manifest of the will to power of man. When Christians accept, obey and love him, they either recovered their will to power, or replaced it with an artificial substitute, a 'prosthesis' called Jesus. That greatly relieved their cycle of weakness (or 'sin'), which made them so amazed and delighted that they can’t resist the temptation to honor Jesus as their savior! Such is the true nature of Christianity, and it does not matter whether Jesus is a god or not! They invented 'faith, hope and love' because it can benefit their minds just like 'liberty, goodness and straight' do. In fact, 'faith, hope and love' is nothing more than 'liberty, goodness and straight' plus a religious coating! That coating made it easier for spiritually ignorant people to understand and accept 'liberty, goodness and straight' so they can enjoy their benefits. It sounds like giving a child a pill covered with sweet coating.
It should be noticed that while Nietzsche's ‘old testament overman’ might despise all Christian values, my proto-overman feels like an atheist-Christian, whose trinity god is replaced by trinity goddess, whose obedience is replaced by passion. Nietzsche seem to believe that those important guys are born with strong will, while the poor are born with weak will, and one can become one of his ‘old testament overman’ only if he is born to be so. I believe that by following the steps above, each person can greatly strengthen their will to power, gain the force of life and eventually become one of my ‘new testament superman’.


How is this world?
Our minds can only receive and process a limited amount of information. If a person walks around and do some scientific experiments, he can feel and analyze the external world based on the information he received through his sensory organs. If a person conduct meditation, he can feel a variety of life experiences which allow him to understand the state of his mind. What else can we sense and understand? Nothing!
Then, there comes an issue. As the information we can receive and process is limited, we can never eliminate the possibility that all of them are wrong or faked! Can we know our life is nothing more than a dream created by demons or aliens? Can we know that we are not a group of aliens playing VR games, in which our true memory is temporarily hidden? Can we know other people in the world have their own consciousness, not just moving husks? The answer is: no, we can't. We can’t be certain about anything. We can't even be certain that we are currently thinking, as we know we were thinking in the last moment because we received the life experience generated by that process a moment ago, which could also be an illusion. Some people might believe their god is absolutely real, however their life experiences and religious texts, which convinced them that their god exists, could also be an illusion.
In a world where there is absolutely no certainty, we have neither a reason to believe it’s real, nor a reason to believe it’s unreal; we have neither a reason to be sane, nor a reason to be insane; we have neither a reason to live, nor a reason to die; we have neither a reason to do good, nor a reason to do evil. We cannot find any meaning in this world, and anything we believe in has no foundation at all. If a person accepts such idea sincerely, all that he once believed in will be destroyed. Including his self-deception, common sense which he took for granted, moral principles which other people taught him, etc. Even the will to power won't save us, as it could also be an illusion.
Actually, from the bottom of our hearts, we all know that the universe is uncertain and we won’t find any meaning in it by intuition. We don't want to accept this fact, we are afraid of this fact, so we accept religions, ideologies or philosophies, not because we are strongly convinced by evidence, logic and or life experiences, but because they claim that there is some kind of certainty and meaning in our lives (like ‘what we do will make a better society and we are destined to success’, or ‘God knows and dominates everything and he gives us meaning and purpose’)! Our fear is so strong that some of us refuse to give up their radical religion, ideology or philosophy, even if these opinions are ridiculous and they ask a lot from them, while some others keep lowering their acceptance standard for the definition of meaning as they are desperate to find one, to an extent that they end up accepting things like nationalism or animal protection as their meanings of life (They are not terrible, but we shouldn’t see them as the meaning of life). It can be said that the greatest and deepest motivation behind our search for faith and desire for knowledge is our fear of meaninglessness.
I want to call those findings 'the Azathoth theory', provided that no one else have found them already. I believe that Lovecraft's dark gods are the best exhibition of our fear to uncertainty and meaninglessness. The Azathoth theory is 100 times better than Nietzsche's 'eternal return'. First, they both bring about nihilism, while the former is way more convincing. After all, we have no idea whether the laws of physics we know dominates our minds, whether it dominates an infinite amount of time and space, whether it is constant and what is it exactly. There isn’t enough evidence to reasonably suggest that eternal return is real. Second, we tend to set different outcomes (such as experience peace, rise to heaven, be rich, be powerful) as meanings, purposes and what we desire, and that’s exactly how our mind works. As a result, not only we can’t find any meaning in a world of 'eternal return', it would also be extremely difficult for us to set new meanings inside it (Perhaps this one cause of Nietzsche’s madness). I can’t imagine how can the idea of eternal return contribute to our internal well-being, and I really dislike it.
There is still hope, though. Although this universe has no meaning, it is still possible for us to set meanings for our lives and pursue them. Such is the only way to overcome the Azathoth theory. In movies, novels and animations, we often see characters face despair, adept to despair and then become even stronger. Such is the manifest of our unconscious desire to overcome the Azathoth theory. However, one cannot achieve this without first becoming an ‘overman’ (as Nietzsche have noticed).


What should we do?
For a proto-overman, accepting the Azathoth theory is the first step to become an overman. Accepting the Azathoth theory is dangerous for those who haven’t overcome their cycle of weakness, as they might fail to complete those steps mentioned below. One can refuse to believe the Azathoth theory though, he will not be sent to hell for that. However, as the knowledge humanity has grows, the Azathoth theory would become more and more obvious, and it would be almost impossible for us to refuse to believe it. I’m afraid that there would be a time (maybe 100 years later) when the majority of humanity has to face the Azathoth theory, either being consumed by nihilism or become an overman.
First, a proto-overman who accepts the Azathoth theory will understand that he can't be certain about anything else. Although that could be painful, he is gifted with the ability to never be tired with this world and see all his experiences in a way as if they are all brand new. More importantly, he is now free to reanalyze and reevaluate everything and anything (as predicted by Nietzsche). When he begins to do so with the information he has at hand, his first finding would be that, it seems that he has self-awareness, the will to power and the force of life. The trinity goddess would be the only and the first, greatest and realest thing he would notice during his reanalyzing and reevaluation, and if they are not affected by all the destruction the Azathoth theory brought about. If he assumes that they are wrong, he cannot even think and act. He has no choice but to choose their existence as the first assumption to hold after accepting the Azathoth theory.
Second, as the Azathoth theory destroyed all old beliefs, there is nothing prevents our proto-overman to experience his trinity goddess now. He becomes aware that the trinity goddess is the only ideas which are not destroyed by the Azathoth theory, and he can’t destroy them even if he tries to disbelieve them. In surprise and delight, he discovers that the three great ideas (or 'goddesses') is not something he believes in (although he does can believe or disbelieve their existence). Instead, they are what defines him, what makes him and powers him, what all his believes are based upon, and what his true-self is. Should they disappear, he as a human will cease to exist. When he says something like ‘control myself’, ‘be myself’, the three ideas are the omitted subject. Then, at that moment, our proto-overman is amazed and filled with hope and confidence. The Azathoth theory cannot frighten him anymore. He stops asking 'WHY affirm my life and assume the world I see is real'. Instead, he shouts 'WHY NOT affirm my life and choose to believe that the world I see is real?' At this moment, an overman is born. 'WHY NOT affirm my life and choose to believe that the world I see is real?' is the second assumption our overman will hold after accepting the Azathoth theory.
Third, before our overman accepted the Azathoth theory, he tried to find meaning in this universe, and he failed miserably. Now, believing 'WHY NOT affirm my life and choose to believe that the world I see is real', he has the courage to accept uncertainty and the internal motivation to pursue meaning. He no longer needs to find absolute definitions of meaning or reasons to pursue it from external entities such as ‘God’ or ‘absolute truth’. As a result, he now has the option to set his meaning of life for himself. Such is how his suffering ends and new hope arises! I choose to set 'Let me and everyone else become stronger and happier' as the meaning of my life, as I can't imagine anything sounds more meaningful to me! You can set your meaning of life for yourself freely, too. But be careful, if you are insane and you set murder as the meaning of your life, other people might fight you for their meanings of life, such as 'to protect all that I love'! It's a good idea for an overman to choose this as the third assumption to hold after accepting the Azathoth theory.
When this is done, an overman would be able to experience, explore, understand and pursue meaning in this world freely and passionately regardless of its uncertain and meaningless nature. He have little guilt and plenty of curiosity, just like a child new to this world.
As you can see, the Azathoth theory brings new life along with destruction. All that we believe in just like a building. This building is in a poor state, as it has no firm foundation beneath it (thanks to the Azathoth theory), while self-deception, moral principles and other stupid ideas weaken it from within. The Azathoth theory will push it down, break it apart and wash it away like a big flood. Although this is a destructive process, it will also expose the trinity goddess from mud and rubble, a firm foundation on which a taller, more beautiful and more flood-resistant new building could be built.
Now I have a prophecy: the god of nihilism, Azathoth, will soon descend upon our spirit realm like a giant asteroid. It will burn the earth, block the sun and freeze the air. What that we once believed in are like dinosaurs. All of them will die of hunger, darkness and coldness, and their bodies will cover the earth like carpet. Although they once ruled the spirit realm, fossils would be the only thing they leave behind. Azathoth’s abominations, such as cults, drug taking and fascism, will rampage across the realm, bringing chaos and despair wherever they go. Even the trinity goddess of self-awareness, the will to power and the force of life won’t be able to stop Azathoth. However, as the realm lies in ruins, the trinity goddess will conceive a new god: ‘the god of affirmation’. Pure, brave and newborn, the god of affirmation is both a lovely little boy and a mighty warrior. He will protect the trinity goddess, absorb and purify Azathoth, and fill the spirit realm with life again!


What would be the outcome?
An overman (as defined above) is the slayer of nihilism, he defeats nihilism by embracing it. His faith is the truth of the world he sees, his strength is his trinity goddess, and what he loves is the life of human-beings. An overman is a paladin of humanism, self-awareness is his power armor, the will to power is his burning sword, the force of life is his energy shield, and the affirmation of life is his holy banner. He combines the strengths of Christians, Nietzsche’s ‘old testament overman’, as well as animation characters, while having none of their weaknesses.
An overman will not feel guilt. However, he will not do something evil such as hurting or dominating others, as he does not have cycle of weakness which motivate him to do so, as he understands that is not what he truly wants and enjoys.
An overman loves himself, yet he is not selfish. He loves himself because he understands and realizes the awesome potential of humanity, which also makes it natural and logical for him to love others.
An overman will not value action over ideas, as he knows how important it is to find and pursue meaning. He might have some kind of conversation with himself, like ‘What am I thinking?”, “Is that really what I want?’, as his lack of guilt made it easier for him to conduct introspection freely.
For an overman, there is nothing more important than his trinity goddess, as he understands that they are what lifted him from an animal to an overman, what he actually is. He might enjoy walking, travelling, listening to music or other activities which enables him to experience their existence.
If an overman has a lover, he/ she might come up with ideas like: 'My life is great, so does his/hers, so it must be a great thing for us to be with each other and create new life together! I don't know how did I come to this world, nor do I fully understand it. However, I appreciate what he/she has brought to me and I'm glad to meet him/her in this world!'
If an overman is about to die, he/she might come up with ideas like: 'I have fought for my trinity goddess by pursuing meaning in this meaningless world. I have protected what I love and fought against what I hate. If such is the end of my life, then I shall rest in peace, free of guilt or regret'.
If I need to give a cartoon image to my overman, I will choose a lovely little boy or a pretty school girl, instead of some kind of genetically modified super soldier.

Comments (58)

Artemis March 06, 2020 at 14:18 ¶ #389029
Reply to Rystiya

Sheesh, even Nietsche knew to call it the "über-human."
Rystiya March 06, 2020 at 14:30 ¶ #389033
Reply to Artemis You mean my overman looks too perfect to be realistic?
Artemis March 06, 2020 at 15:19 ¶ #389047
Quoting Rystiya
You mean my overman looks too perfect to be realistic?


I mean your overman is stuck in antiquated diction.
Rystiya March 06, 2020 at 16:01 ¶ #389059
Reply to Artemis You mean ‘overman’ is outdated translation? Well, I’m not a native English speaker and ‘overman’ is what google translate tells me to translate that word to.
Artemis March 06, 2020 at 16:14 ¶ #389064
Quoting Rystiya
Well, I’m not a native English speaker and ‘overman’ is what google translate tells me to translate that word to.


Oh, I see. I take back my snark then :wink:

For future reference, "man" means human male. An antiquated use is to use it to refer to all humans (and some really obstinate types still do). But generally people now just say "human" or "person" to refer to, yknow, "humans" and "persons."
Rystiya March 06, 2020 at 16:41 ¶ #389071
Reply to Artemis Ok, thanks
NOS4A2 March 06, 2020 at 21:07 ¶ #389119
Reply to Rystiya

Well, the common rebuttal to the claim “We can’t be certain about anything” is, how are you so certain?
praxis March 06, 2020 at 21:20 ¶ #389123
Let's face it, it's an overmans world.
Rystiya March 06, 2020 at 22:45 ¶ #389147
Reply to NOS4A2 We can’t be certain about anything in this world, and that is not something in this world.
Rystiya March 06, 2020 at 22:59 ¶ #389152
Reply to NOS4A2 Or perhaps I should say that I’m not certain about ‘we can’t be certain about anything’ , because if concerts like ‘certain’ ‘we’ do not make sense, then this sentence also does not make sense.
Rystiya March 06, 2020 at 23:00 ¶ #389155
Reply to praxis You say this as if an overman’s world is a terrible one. I suppose my overman does not seem to be harmful?
Deleted User March 07, 2020 at 00:06 ¶ #389168
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Artemis March 07, 2020 at 00:24 ¶ #389174
Reply to tim wood

As a German speaker, let me point out that he did specifically call it the "Übermensch" and not "Übermann." Mensch is human and Mann is man in German. And since German has the same history of human/man usage I described above in English, I think he probably used "Mensch" purposefully.
Deleted User March 07, 2020 at 00:51 ¶ #389180
Quoting Rystiya
How does our minds work?


The first step to achieving ubermenschhood is to master subject-verb agreement. Begin with a profound contempt for those who have not mastered it.
Rystiya March 07, 2020 at 01:29 ¶ #389182
Reply to ZzzoneiroCosm Well, I should not have relied so heavy on Microsoft word to find my errors
god must be atheist March 07, 2020 at 01:44 ¶ #389184
Reply to Rystiya Grammarly. That is the software to clear up the snags and traps of English. I use it to smoothe out the mistakes in all my commands before uttering them to Killer. Killer is Rottweiler-Chihuahua mix.
Rystiya March 07, 2020 at 01:46 ¶ #389185
Reply to god must be atheist Anyway, I should not have relied entirely on it
god must be atheist March 07, 2020 at 01:49 ¶ #389186
Quoting Artemis
Mensch is human


In Yiddisch, too. Rabbi Rubinstein wrote a rebuttal, little known and soon forgotten after publication, to Nietzsche, with the title "Meschugenes Ubermenschchen", which means in Enlish, translated loosely, "Loco little Overperson".
god must be atheist March 07, 2020 at 01:51 ¶ #389187
Quoting Artemis
Mensch is human


Hence the English proverb, "To err is human." Becase humans (Menschen) are nature's biggest mistake.
Deleted User March 07, 2020 at 01:58 ¶ #389188
Quoting Rystiya
Well, I should not have relied so heavy on Microsoft word to find my errors


Haha, I was just teasing. :grin:
Rystiya March 07, 2020 at 02:05 ¶ #389190
Reply to god must be atheist How can humans, the only being capable of distinguishing right and wrong, see themselves as a mistake? That sounds ridiculous to me.
god must be atheist March 07, 2020 at 02:17 ¶ #389194
"to err is human" is an English proverb. Formed by thousands of years of folk wisdom. Ask them why they made such a ridiculous proverb.
Nils Loc March 07, 2020 at 02:56 ¶ #389205
How to become the Alphamensch?

You need to take risks, become physically strong, eat more meat, quit your cubicle job, learn to bow hunt, start testosterone doping and start a podcast.

Rystiya March 07, 2020 at 03:03 ¶ #389206
Reply to god must be atheist Of course I know everyone makes mistakes. I was speaking against the idea that “Becase humans (Menschen) are nature's biggest mistake.“
Deleted User March 07, 2020 at 04:53 ¶ #389229
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Rystiya March 07, 2020 at 06:49 ¶ #389244
Reply to tim wood Perhaps he hate women because his pursuit of partner was very unsuccessful.
Pussycat March 07, 2020 at 09:42 ¶ #389256
Reply to Rystiya

Nietzsche :Man shall be trained for war, and woman for the recreation of the warrior: all else is folly.


:grin:
Rystiya March 07, 2020 at 10:36 ¶ #389258
Reply to Pussycat Well I can’t make any sense of it. Perhaps he rely entirely on intuition, which could be affected heavily by emotions? I’m not sure.
Pussycat March 07, 2020 at 13:01 ¶ #389267
Reply to Rystiya What's to say of him, in other parts, he speaks differently of women. Maybe in his works, one can find every possible thought expressed, I doubt he had any convictions, but was immersed in contradictions, being their king. An explorer of thoughts was he, trying to sell contradictory remarks to the highest bidder, without there being any buyers though. A chameleon changing his colours, a liar and a thief, a knave, of all trades, robbing people of their peace of mind, well he was finally thrown off the sinking ship, as was his karma, ha!

Artemis March 07, 2020 at 13:33 ¶ #389270
Quoting tim wood
It's not what you want to retro-read into him, or think he should have said, but what he did say and meant.


Nietzsche is famous for having strongly mixed opinions on women and their potential. So, based on that and on his particular, and for the time uncommon, choice of the neutral term, I'd say your claim that he meant purposefully to exclude women is as much, if not more, "retro-reading into him."
Artemis March 07, 2020 at 13:34 ¶ #389271
Quoting god must be atheist
Meschugenes Ubermenschchen", which means in Enlish, translated loosely, "Loco little Overperson".


:rofl:

I especially appreciate your translation of Yiddish into Spanglish.
Rystiya March 07, 2020 at 14:12 ¶ #389277
Reply to Pussycat You mean he wanted to destroy what other people once believed, instead of expressing his own opinion accurately?
Deleted User March 07, 2020 at 16:52 ¶ #389298
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Artemis March 07, 2020 at 17:42 ¶ #389317
Quoting tim wood
Can we settle this simply by saying that Nietzsche was not a man of XXIst century western culture, experience, and sensitivity?


Since that would be inaccurate, not really.

For example, despite having many controversial views on women's potential, he did talk about it. So, no he did not just "accidentally" exclude women because they were some odd afterthought as foreign to his writing as yak milk would be to my breakfast. Note that there were many writers of his time who did just leave out talk of women altogether.

You're accusing me of attributing some 21st C understanding of the world to Nietzsche. But you're attributing some simplistic, stereotyped, and frankly inaccurate 21st C understanding of the people of the 19th C to him.
Deleted User March 07, 2020 at 20:32 ¶ #389404
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Artemis March 07, 2020 at 22:13 ¶ #389431
Quoting tim wood
Uber=over, mensch=man. But never as woman. Whether


I've explained the proper translation of Mensch. Feel free to Google it if you don't trust the bilingual, native German speaker (that would be me). Nietzsche cannot be held accountable for the mistakes of his translators.

Quoting tim wood
If you continue this, please cite chap. & verse and show I'm wrong.


I've been supplying you with specific facts that counter your very vague, hand-wave-y generalization.... Perhaps it is you who needs to provide more in evidence and/or argument?
Deleted User March 07, 2020 at 22:58 ¶ #389459
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Artemis March 07, 2020 at 23:32 ¶ #389472
Reply to tim wood

"Mensch" only gets translated as "man" when "man" is erroneously and outdatedly meant to stand for "human." It's as absurd as claiming "human" means "man." Your quoted Wikipedia entry confirms this. :roll:

I'm taking Nietzsche by his literal word. You are not. You're therefore the one who needs to provide evidence that he did not mean the word that he explicitly used. To quote you: Quoting tim wood
Have you got that?


Artemis March 07, 2020 at 23:52 ¶ #389484
Reply to tim wood

Since we are using Wikipedia now:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche%27s_views_on_women

Some biographical context:
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/oct/06/exploding-nietzsche-myths-need-dynamiting?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15836245562294&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbooks%2F2018%2Foct%2F06%2Fexploding-nietzsche-myths-need-dynamiting

And a paper explaining in depth his very non-simplistic views of women--note that the paper suggests Nietzsche thought there may be differences between the sexes, but not these necessarily meant superiority of one over the other.
https://philarchive.org/archive/HATNOW-2v1

From these it can be inferred that Nietzsche very much thought about women and women's rights and that it is highly unlikely that his use of "Mensch" was either exclusionary of women, or not a purposefully gender-neutral term.
Pussycat March 08, 2020 at 09:17 ¶ #389621
Quoting Rystiya
You mean he wanted to destroy what other people once believed, instead of expressing his own opinion accurately?


This is not what I meant, but to answer your question, you cannot create unless you destroy, with accuracy playing second fiddle, one cannot be a great creator without being a great destroyer.
Rystiya March 08, 2020 at 09:39 ¶ #389626
Reply to Pussycat Ok, I understand
Agathob March 08, 2020 at 15:16 ¶ #389694
How to become an overman?

If I’m understanding Nietzsche right, his overman would essentially throw out all previous moral systems and restart from scratch; creating his own values.

Assuming no new developments in human nature, wouldn’t he be recreating the old systems but in new expressions?

The problems I see with the overman concept are two:

• His throwing out of old moral systems and values, while creating his own; and acting irregardless of these old systems and their adherents create conflict between this hypothetical overman and the rest of humanity that cling to the old systems.

• Conflict between multiple overmen and their own idiosyncratic systems. These overmen would be hashing out between themselves, as well as other humans. Assuming they’re not biologically superior to baseline humans; these overmen would be overpowered by the larger mass of humanity.

My question would be for a potential overman would be: Assuming you could throw out all of the old moral value systems and start with a clean slate; what epistemology would you use in order to discern these new and superior moral value systems?

fdrake March 08, 2020 at 18:42 ¶ #389744
Step 1) Re-evaluate all values in the palatial capacity of your wisdom.
Step 2) Live as a mild mannered office clerk.
Deleted User March 08, 2020 at 18:49 ¶ #389747
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Artemis March 08, 2020 at 20:39 ¶ #389798
Quoting tim wood
I'm just not buying it.


Well, that's your business then.

I've proved my point. I can't do more than lead the stubborn mule to water.
Rystiya March 09, 2020 at 00:24 ¶ #389861
Reply to Agathob My overman relay on his self awareness and will to power to know what he should or shouldn’t do.
Rystiya March 09, 2020 at 01:56 ¶ #389905
Reply to fdrake In a world of overman, there still needs to be office clerks.
Agathob March 09, 2020 at 20:56 ¶ #390177
Reply to Rystiya

No matter how strong the will to power; will alone cannot grasp truths anecdotes self awareness can be mere self absorption.

Perhaps I should clarify my question:

How would a hypothetical overman know which moral truths are superior and to all of the old master/slave Apollonian moralities Nietzsche criticized and thought foolishness?
Pussycat March 09, 2020 at 23:44 ¶ #390253
Reply to Rystiya I managed to read the whole of your OP, wasn't easy, I must tell you, you need to improve your english mate, if you want to reach out to people, presentation is everything. As for content, you discriminate between good hate and bad hate, healthy and unhealthy; seeing hate as one, just hate, will make your overman fall back on N. overman, I think. As for accuracy, you could look for a pro, a gun for hire.

User image
Rystiya March 10, 2020 at 00:10 ¶ #390261
Reply to Agathob An overman will not be concerned with morality. Nor do he need morality, as he is not interested in hurting or dominating others and he don’t like doing so. What he concerns about is what seems meaningful to him.
Rystiya March 10, 2020 at 00:16 ¶ #390263
Reply to Pussycat Ok... Thanks for figuring that out. I wrote it all by myself and I haven’t written something this long about philosophy before. By the way, what do you mean by ‘N.’? Does that mean ‘None-‘?
Pussycat March 10, 2020 at 00:54 ¶ #390268
Reply to Rystiya Nietzsche's I meant, but now that I think of it, since N. was writing for all and none, it could equally mean None. :smile:
Pussycat March 10, 2020 at 01:18 ¶ #390271
Reply to Rystiya Anyway, seeing that you are a Lovecraft fan, I suggest you watch "In the mouth of madness", if you haven't already that is, I think you'll like it.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113409/
Rystiya March 10, 2020 at 01:31 ¶ #390275
Reply to Pussycat Ok, thanks
god must be atheist March 10, 2020 at 05:07 ¶ #390325
Are we saying that Nietzsche (**N) was a mysogynist? I don't know if we are saying that. It is not a claim. It is a question.

But if we indeed are saying that, then please consider that his sister ALLEGEDLY did a lot of editing of N's writings, after his death and before the first publication of his work(s).

Is it possible that his own sister was a woman-hater?
Rystiya March 10, 2020 at 09:51 ¶ #390375
Reply to god must be atheist His sister hates Jews, perhaps women too? I’m not sure whether her editing has been corrected or not.
IvoryBlackBishop March 11, 2020 at 21:24 ¶ #390918
The story I heard is that his sister was a Nazi sympathizer and edited his work and concept of the 'overman' to make it something overtly white or racial supremacist. As far as women go, i'm not sure.
Rystiya March 12, 2020 at 01:36 ¶ #390999