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It's OK to give up or not?

Shawn February 07, 2020 at 22:46 5625 views 26 comments
I don't think this is adequately respected or treated as a tenable position in society.

Why is that?

With the addendum that someone has even tried.

Comments (26)

DingoJones February 07, 2020 at 22:54 #379937
Reply to Wallows

Deja vu...
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 22:56 #379939
Quoting DingoJones
Deja vu...


No, I mean seriously. IF some people are born abnormal or develop profound abnormalities in their life that prevent them from functioning adequately in society, then who's to blame for such an occurrence? The individual?

That would be unjust and wrong.
DingoJones February 07, 2020 at 22:58 #379941
Reply to Wallows

No ones to blame. Thats just being dealt a bad hand, an unlucky toss of the dice.
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:00 #379943
Quoting DingoJones
No ones to blame. Thats just being dealt a bad hand, an unlucky toss of the dice.


Yeah, so, if it is, then what's wrong with giving up?

An interesting side thought seems to me to be that in places where society is left unchecked or immune from responsibility, and all liability is placed on the individual, then the issue becomes exacerbated.
Qwex February 07, 2020 at 23:02 #379944
Maybe you're meant to feel this way.

Maybe giving up is the quick way out.
DingoJones February 07, 2020 at 23:02 #379945
Reply to Wallows

Nothing wrong with giving up, thats someones personal choice.
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:05 #379948
Quoting Qwex
Maybe you're meant to feel this way.


Ontological placeholders aside, what do you mean by that?

Quoting Qwex
Maybe giving up is the quick way out.


You know, I feel your vibe here, coming as an SZ put on two antipsychotics; but, giving up is not really the quick way out. The quick way out is put simply suicide, and that position is self-refuting and untenable.
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:06 #379950
Quoting DingoJones
Nothing wrong with giving up, thats someones personal choice.


But, wait. Here's the point.... Should people who have "given up", be, supported by society anymore, or left to fend for themselves?
Qwex February 07, 2020 at 23:14 #379955
I mean, you might be being punished.

I'm not telling you to give up, but I'll suggest, again, that you are in hell.

For committing a life crime in a past life, perhaps.

Suicidal thoughts are part of the package. Would you have preferred the flame?
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:17 #379957
Quoting Qwex
I mean, you might be being punished.


That's incomprehensible. Will the secrets of my own mind reveal itself after I die, or do I read a book and fly to the moon to go to heaven?

That sort of line of reasoning is gibberish.
Qwex February 07, 2020 at 23:19 #379961
Reply to Wallows

Why are some of us happy and comfortable then?

Luck? Really?

Yeah, you revert to a more normative state when you die after a life of suffering.

Call it falling to hell, or picture it as you, right now, suffering. Up to you.
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:23 #379966
Quoting Qwex
Call it falling to hell, or picture it as you, right now, suffering. Up to you.


Yeah, well, I suffered enough in my life, and I made the personal decision, that I won't try anymore.

I don't feel bad about it, would you?
Qwex February 07, 2020 at 23:24 #379967
Reply to Wallows

I actually can't wait for your suffering to end.

You sound like a human who has suffered enough.

There's a nice beautiful body waiting for you and an applause at 'heavens gates'. While the muffled laughter of the many sheep you burned fade away.
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:26 #379970
Quoting Qwex
I actually can't wait for your suffering to end.

You sound like a human who has suffered enough.


Yes, and I can see that you are suffering too. I hope your suffering ends in a non-dramatic and totally cool manner.

(Antipsychotics sometimes cause akasthesia, a hellish state of being...)
Qwex February 07, 2020 at 23:28 #379974
Yeah I am, it's strange how that works. I don't give up, but I have a very durable body.

If I was in a lesser vessel, I would've topped myself a long time ago.
Qwex February 07, 2020 at 23:31 #379976
One moment I'm suffering, another moment I'm that guy. One strange cycle. Not one imperfection on me. I fit any picture - perhaps a bit unphotogenic. My suffering is a bit different than yours, a graphical rape, inability to calm down - no alone time - solipsist hell. Again, if I wasn't beautiful I'd have given up through suicide already. Hence 'durability'.

How durable are you if you don't mind me asking?
Judaka February 07, 2020 at 23:36 #379980
Reply to Wallows
It is okay to give up, the question is always what do you do after you've given up. If it's to wallow in self-pity then wallowing in self-pity is bad and that makes giving up look bad. As usual, your thread lacks any context.

Give up and try again - in a way that doesn't resemble trying to do the exact same thing that just failed. Do it until you reach an outcome that's acceptable. Don't just try to do the same way of achieving the same goal - which might've always been unrealistic, unattainable or just unlikely to give you the result you thought it would.

Why would anyone whether they wanted what's best for you or not, think that giving up and wallowing in self-pity is a respectable choice?




Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:36 #379981
Quoting Qwex
How durable are you if you don't mind me asking?


Not very. It sounds like a different hell.
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:38 #379983
Reply to Judaka

Do your expectations match your composure under duress? I can't say much about myself in that manner. :confused:
Judaka February 07, 2020 at 23:43 #379985
Reply to Wallows
What kind of duress?
Shawn February 07, 2020 at 23:44 #379987
Quoting Judaka
What kind of duress?


Emotional, financial?
Judaka February 08, 2020 at 00:02 #379997
Reply to Wallows
I've always thought there are two ways to solve a problem.

You tackle the nature of the problem or you interpret differently so that which was once a problem is no longer a problem or at least less of a problem.

Why don't you give up on tackling the nature of the problem, that would be better than not giving up and not doing anything which just creates a cycle of stress and discontent. Or at least take a break from not giving up.

Turn your wallowing into cynicism - or something like that. Try to find a better way of not being okay with your situation, one that allows you some strength. Then use that strength to slightly improve the things that you can't stop caring about. In any case, stop trying to do that which you know you can't do and try to find something which you can because even if it leads to no progress whatsoever, it will at least have you walking forward rather than standing still.

There are almost certainly things you need to give up on but contentment isn't one of them.







Judaka February 08, 2020 at 00:12 #380002
Reply to Wallows
On a philosophical note as opposed to advice to someone that I don't know, anything we think "society" thinks is a pristine, unrealistic version of what's real. Seemingly happy marriages that aren't happy, great jobs that make people miserable and levels of attractiveness that only a small handful of the population have access to. There's something for everyone but that something often isn't what we're taught to think it is and it can feel counterintuitive.

Luck plays a bigger role than most people are happy to admit but even if you got a raw deal that prevents you from succeeding in a stereotypical way, it doesn't mean you should give up on being content with your life. Flip the table and stop playing the game you were playing and make new rules that redefine success as the thing you want to do and are able to do.


DingoJones February 08, 2020 at 06:15 #380093
Quoting Wallows
But, wait. Here's the point.... Should people who have "given up", be, supported by society anymore, or left to fend for themselves?


Depends on what you mean by give up. I thought you meant suicide or something like that. If you just mean move away from society and live by yourself...then no, society doesnt owe you support or anything else. Society is a social contract we make with each other, if you choose not to participate in that social contract then yes youbare on your own.
Shawn February 08, 2020 at 06:17 #380094
Quoting DingoJones
Depends on what you mean by give up. I thought you meant suicide or something like that. If you just mean move away from society and live by yourself...then no, society doesnt owe you support or anything else. Society is a social contract we make with each other, if you choose not to participate in that social contract then yes youbare on your own.


Generally speaking, by "giving up" I mean, the rejection of commonly held values that guide Western economically driven sociopolitical mechanisms of incentives and disincentives that shape or to some degree govern human behavior in those particular societies.

Sir2u February 08, 2020 at 19:27 #380266
Quoting Wallows
Generally speaking, by "giving up" I mean, the rejection of commonly held values that guide Western economically driven sociopolitical mechanisms of incentives and disincentives that shape or to some degree govern human behavior in those particular societies.


That is one classy way to declare your hippy-ness. You should have come out a long time again, you would have been happier.