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Everybody interview

Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 01:04 10775 views 61 comments
I'm Mongrel. I'm an old lady, Generation X. I grew up in the Southeastern part of the US. I participated on the old PF forum, and though I find that this one still offers the opportunity to expand horizons, I find the recurring anti-American thing to be tiresome and frankly suspect it as a handy way for some to experience the yumminess of being a fucking bigot without the grief of feeling like you did something wrong... which makes me a little irritated at baseline with this forum... and I'll be gone soon enough, but before I go, I'd like to interview Thorongil (who may or may not leave me hanging with this thread.)

So.. Thorongil. What brought you to PF originally?

Comments (61)

Buxtebuddha November 16, 2016 at 01:17 #33136
Awh, can I introduce myself too? O:)
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 01:23 #33137
Reply to Heister Eggcart You're the piler-onner I recently accused of being Thorongil. If that's who you really are.. then sure. Answer the question.
Buxtebuddha November 16, 2016 at 01:26 #33138
Reply to Mongrel Well, I'm not. So I guess we both can see what Thorongil Lute Lover has to say here, X-)
Thorongil November 16, 2016 at 02:41 #33151
Calling me out I see. I suppose I shall indulge you.

Quoting Mongrel
I find the recurring anti-American thing


You won't find that from me.

Quoting Mongrel
What brought you to PF originally?


The need to alleviate boredom.
Wosret November 16, 2016 at 05:28 #33170
Oh... shit... sorry about that. I said some anti-American sentiments... solely directed at, and in passive-aggressive response to Trump supporters, and with the intent to be obnoxious, and annoying. Everyone else in the world besides those couple of people are collateral damage.

I apologize, and don't have anything seriously against Americans, I was just being a dick on purpose because I was annoyed at Trump victory gloating. I'll refrain in the future.
_db November 16, 2016 at 05:29 #33171
What the fuck is going on on this forum right now?! Seriously guys, get your shit together, it's a fucking internet forum.
Moliere November 16, 2016 at 05:38 #33173
if it's any consolation, I'm still an American, even if I might contribute to the sentiments so referenced.
Terrapin Station November 16, 2016 at 09:32 #33185
Quoting Mongrel
I'm an old lady, Generation X


I'm in the gray zone where you could say I arrived at the tail end of the Baby Boom generation or at the beginning of Generation X. I wouldn't say that I'm old. (Of course, some punk-ass kids who need to get the hell offa my lawn might say otherwise, but that's another story.)
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 13:12 #33212
Quoting Wosret
Oh... shit... sorry about that. I said some anti-American sentiments... solely directed at, and in passive-aggressive response to Trump supporters, and with the intent to be obnoxious, and annoying. Everyone else in the world besides those couple of people are collateral damage.

I apologize, and don't have anything seriously against Americans, I was just being a dick on purpose because I was annoyed at Trump victory gloating. I'll refrain in the future.


Don't be sorry! I just thought if I was going to interview Thorongil, I should say some things about myself... otherwise it would be like a weird police interview or something. That was just something that came to mind.

How would you answer the question, btw? How did you end up on a philosophy forum? What brought you to it?
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 13:14 #33213
Quoting Terrapin Station
I'm in the gray zone where you could say I arrived at the tail end of the Baby Boom generation or at the beginning of Generation X. I wouldn't say that I'm old. (Of course, some punk-ass kids who need to get the hell offa my lawn might say otherwise, but that's another story.)


I'm also too young to be Baby Boomer and a little old for GenX, but the music and general vibe of GenX is definitely me. So.. same question: what brought you to a philosophy forum?
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 13:15 #33214
Quoting Thorongil
The need to alleviate boredom.


But... you could have picked rock climbing... or hunting arrow-heads. Why philosophy?
Terrapin Station November 16, 2016 at 13:40 #33215
Quoting Mongrel
what brought you to a philosophy forum?


I love philosophy, and I have an academic background in it, but not many in my current social milieu have much of a grounding in it or are very interested in it (I work in arts & entertainment fields and the vast majority of my social circle is comprised of people in A&E). I like to "stay in practice" re social interaction centered on philosophy, so that's my interest. I prefer casual, friendly conversation, which isn't typically how it's approached in venues like this--usually people want to argue (er, "debate") instead, there are usually a lot of superiority complexes involved, venues like this often seem to attract people with little social skills and who don't really want to have social skills, etc., but I want to retain my social interaction skills with respect to philosophy, so I have to take what's available.
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 15:06 #33218
Quoting Terrapin Station
I love philosophy,


Why?
Terrapin Station November 16, 2016 at 15:16 #33220
Reply to Mongrel

it's just a natural disposition, similar to loving desert landscapes or pizza or whatever. Ultimately, it's "because that's the way my brain is/the way my brain works."
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 15:19 #33223
Reply to Terrapin Station When would you say you first noticed your brain was philosophy oriented?
Terrapin Station November 16, 2016 at 15:25 #33224
I first realized that that was what it was considered when I was 11, in 1973. I wound up browsing the philosophy section of a bookstore for the first time at that age and realized "Wait a minute--there's actually a whole tradition of thinking about things in this way?!? Cool!" And that's when I started studying philosophy as such. The first book I picked up was the Robert Paul Wolff-edited Ten Great Works of Philosophy.
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 15:31 #33225
Reply to Terrapin Station So you must have been thinking along philosophical lines before that. Do you remember anything in particular (pre-11 years old, I mean.)
Terrapin Station November 16, 2016 at 15:40 #33230
Quoting Mongrel
So you must have been thinking along philosophical lines before that.


Yeah, that's what I meant by "I first realized that that was what it was considered." I naturally thought that way, but I hadn't realized that it had a name or that there was a tradition of it or that there was anything unusual about it, really.

Regarding recalling any particular philosophical views at that age, I can't offhand. Maybe if I thought about it longer, but a lot of it is a blur with respect to more developed views at a later age.
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 16:06 #33236
Reply to Terrapin Station So what views have you developed?
Terrapin Station November 16, 2016 at 16:14 #33239
I'm blah blah blahing about some of them here all the time. Just follow my posts, or just look at my post ("comment") history. For example, in the past 24 hours, I was explaining the different ways of looking at the question of whether something is "real," I was explaining my "reference pointism" in relation to the mind/body problem with an emphasis on how it impacts a common objection from the "hard problem" supporters, etc.
Ciceronianus November 16, 2016 at 16:17 #33240
Damn. I was going to interview myself, or ask my cat Sulla to do so, or interview Sulla. But now everybody will want to be interviewed. If not by themselves or their cats, then by someone else.
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 16:29 #33242
Reply to Ciceronianus the White Don't you have some oblique statement to make about sexual harassment?
Ciceronianus November 16, 2016 at 16:45 #33245
Quoting Mongrel
Don't you have some oblique statement to make about sexual harassment?


Well, Sulla might.
BC November 16, 2016 at 17:17 #33246
Quoting Terrapin Station
it's just a natural disposition, similar to loving desert landscapes


Desert landscapes is exactly what comes to mind when I am approached by serious philosophy.
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 17:31 #33249
Reply to Bitter Crank So this is how stupid I am: I knew this gay dude who's an enthusiastic Republican. I asked him once why he didn't get involved in politics considering how much thought and energy he seemed to devote to it. He told me it was because he's gay. For a second I just stared at him.. like... so? And then I realized.. oh shit.. you can't become a politician in the US if you're gay! This was a few years back so maybe things have changed, but could you comment on what that's like? Or has it never been of significance to you? Or what?
Terrapin Station November 16, 2016 at 18:40 #33255
Reply to Mongrel

It's just that in many if not most locales, you're unfortunately not going to get very far as an openly gay politician. A lot of folks would still refrain voting for you simply because you're gay.

Still, Barney Frank, for example, was a congressman from Massachusetts. He was in office for over 20 years after it came out that he was gay.

On the other hand, Jim McGreevey was the governor of New Jersey who resigned not too long after folks learned he was gay, but that was due to other controversies, especially threats of sexual harassment lawsuits.

And it wasn't known that either were gay when they were first elected.
BC November 16, 2016 at 23:36 #33314
Reply to Mongrel Reply to Terrapin Station

Terrapin Station stole my Frank thunder, but there is more. Larry Craig, a presumptive heterosexual Senator from Idaho was arrested for suggesting to an undercover cop that sex might be an amusing interlude in a toilet stall at the Minneapolis airport. Based on my experience of the Minneapolis Airport's sterility, I would say that a quickie in a toilet stall beats most of the time-passing options available there. Whose budget was sufficiently plush that they could afford to have cops suppressing cock sucking, don't know.

Senator Craig, martyr to the cause

User image

Here is a list from Wikipedia of gay congressmen currently or gently serving in the US Congress:

Kyrsten Sinema
Mark Pocan
Mark Takano
Sean Patrick Maloney
David Cicilline
Jared Polis
Mike Michaud
Mark Foley
Michael Huffington
Jim Kolbe
im Kolbe
Steve Gunderson
Barney Frank
Jon Hinson
Gerry Studds
Robert Bauman
Stewart McKinney
Tammy Baldwin
Harris Wofford

The Wiki article also notes that gay politicians serve in all 50 states, in one capacity or another.
BC November 16, 2016 at 23:47 #33317
Reply to Mongrel Of course it's possible to be a gay politician, even a successful gay politician. The key is to be a gay politician from the get go. Revealing the crocodile in the closet later, or worse--having the crocodile brought out by somebody else, is the fatal error. Accusing someone of faggotry fails as a destructive strategy if one has already announced one's faggot status, and is neutralized even more if the faggot adds "and proud of it".
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 23:54 #33319
Reply to Bitter Crank For my friend, I think it's probably just a little late. If it had been possible for him in the 1980's.. I could definitely see him as a congressman or senator. But now his history is just invested elsewhere.

Considering that you saw a lot of that change, how did you experience it? Did it mean anything to you when you started to see those doors opening? In terms of how you saw yourself? Or not?
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 23:55 #33320
Reply to Ciceronianus the White That's cool. Hand the phone to your cat.
Mongrel November 16, 2016 at 23:57 #33321
Reply to Terrapin Station I vaguely remember Barney Frank. I didn't have a TV at the time.
Wosret November 17, 2016 at 01:07 #33327
Reply to Mongrel

I don't really recall what specifically I was looking up, or wanted to do when I first looked up philosophy forums, and joined. I had moved on from a creative writing website, which is where I started online, with poetry and short stories. My little brother had suggested that I tried it, and was also a member, a long with a few other people I knew. After I had established my unquestionable dominance, I of course got bored of there, and was really getting into the atheist thing. I was still sick, and hated everyone, and the universe -- so it made lots of sense to me at the time. I could not accept that my vicissitudes were intended... that this could be done to me on purpose. I was a decided atheist by thirteen, having read the bible, looking for everything that was wrong with it. I didn't really get into it or anything until the new atheist movement, which I found attractive. I was posting on RD.net, and following more science documentary blogs, articles and things, and I watched a lot of arguments, as well as participated in a lot of arguments. I was deeply passionate about it too, because I'm not the fucking crazy one, they are.

Anyway, that's about the time that I joined the forum. There were a lot more believers around back then too, and I used to argue and argue and argue some more with them.
S November 17, 2016 at 01:27 #33335
Quoting Mongrel
I find the recurring anti-American thing to be tiresome...


I found it hilarious earlier coming from Frankie Boyle (and guests). [I]Frankie Boyle's American Autopsy[/I] on the BBC. Well worth a watch, in my opinion.

Oh, and I can answer the question you've been asking with a single word: curiosity.
S November 17, 2016 at 01:36 #33336
Quoting Terrapin Station
(I work in arts & entertainment fields and the vast majority of my social circle is comprised of people in A&E)


Your social circle is comprised of people who have been involved in a major accident or medical emergency, and are now hospitalised?
Terrapin Station November 17, 2016 at 12:26 #33424
Mongrel November 17, 2016 at 16:40 #33485
Quoting Wosret
. I didn't really get into it or anything until the new atheist movement, which I found attractive.


That's interesting. Do you still identify with new atheists?
Mongrel November 17, 2016 at 16:43 #33487
Quoting Sapientia
I found it hilarious earlier coming from Frankie Boyle (and guests). Frankie Boyle's American Autopsy on the BBC. Well worth a watch, in my opinion.

Oh, and I can answer the question you've been asking with a single word: curiosity.


I don't know who Frankie Boyle is. More power to him though.

Are you from a small town? From a big one? Large family? Orphan? What's the Sapientia tale?
Wosret November 17, 2016 at 18:32 #33505
Reply to Mongrel

No, I stopped caring about that awhile ago.
S November 17, 2016 at 18:52 #33509
Quoting Mongrel
I don't know who Frankie Boyle is.


Do you know what Google is, and how to use it? ;)

Quoting Mongrel
Are you from a small town? From a big one? Large family? Orphan?


Is 12 sq mi big or small? I wouldn't say I'm from a large family. And I'm not an orphan.

Quoting Mongrel
What's the Sapientia tale?


Once upon a time, in the late 1980s, in a town in Essex, in the southeast of England, bordering the capital, London, on planet Earth, a particular pair of identical twins was born, and I was one of them. I grew up and eventually found the old forum which I joined 6 years ago back in 2010, and became a regular participant, until last year when it was sold to people who ruffled my feathers enough to make me leave and resettle here, where I've remained ever since.

Outside of the forum, I have a job and a life and a cat and two degus, and I'm going to be moving into a flat next month.

And I'm an owl.
Buxtebuddha November 17, 2016 at 19:01 #33511
Reply to Sapientia It seems Wisdom lives a rather ordinary life, ay? O:)
Mongrel November 17, 2016 at 19:33 #33516
Reply to Wosret Well.. I'm guessing I know what you'd say about this, but I've never asked you before. It has to do vaguely with new atheists..

There are elements of D. Trump's background and that of some of his associates that relates to a sort of social application of the principle of survival of the fittest: It's the notion that if we help the down-trodden, we're screwing with human genetics in a bad way. Therefore, we should let people float or drown. It's some philosophy that mingles with whatever else underpins libertarianism.

What are your thoughts on that? Or was I too vague?
Mongrel November 17, 2016 at 19:36 #33518
Quoting Sapientia
Do you know what Google is, and how to use it? ;)


I do. But it doesn't take the place of getting recommendations from real people. Best science fiction book you've read lately?

Quoting Sapientia
a particular pair of identical twins was born, and I was one of them.


You're an identical twin? Does your twin ever hang around this forum? If not, why not?
S November 17, 2016 at 19:51 #33521
Quoting Heister Eggcart
It seems Wisdom lives a rather ordinary life, ay? O:)


So it seems. But then you don't know that I'm Batman. And you won't find out, because I don't tell anyone.
S November 17, 2016 at 19:56 #33522
Quoting Mongrel
Best science fiction book you've read lately?


I haven't. I hardly read [i]any[/I] fiction these days. But I read [I]A Brave New World[/I] some time ago.

Quoting Mongrel
You're an identical twin? Does your twin ever hang around this forum? If not, why not?


Yes, no, and because he's too low-brow. Or at least, he acts that way, although if he gave it a real chance, he might discover that he likes it. But because he associates it with me, he does the opposite, as he tends to do.

If he came here, it would probably be to troll or to be a sort of Katie Hopkins figure.
BC November 17, 2016 at 20:39 #33527
Quoting Mongrel
Best science fiction book you've read lately?


Earth Abides is a 1949 post-apocalyptic science fiction novel by American writer George R. Stewart.

99.9% of the earth's population die very quickly from a new disease, almost all at once, except for a randomly resistant remnant. The story follows one group living Oakland, CA. They are an unremarkable group. They survive because there are is a thick cushion of goods on hand. The people died but buildings and contents weren't affected. Little is said about the disease. There are no descriptions of ghastly death -- people just got ill with an influenza-like disease and died quickly.

The group survives (40 or 50 years at plot's end) but the charm of the story is in the way the lazy non-forward thinking of the group turns out to be better than the rational long-range planning of the leader. The people in the group are, as I said, unremarkable, but to use a term that hadn't been invented in 1949, crowd sourcing turned out to be more reliable than expert sourcing.

The leader recognizes his irrelevance and comes up with a gift to the future in the form of a toy.

The book is available in print (maybe) but is definitely in e-book format. Might even be a free copy out there somewhere.

It was one of the best books I've read in any category.

Another charm of the book is the absence of nuts and bolts we are familiar with. For instance, he describes a post-apocalypse drive across what had been America to verify what he thought had happened. He describes driving along Highway 66, and for a brief moment I wondered "why would anyone drive on secondary roads?" Then it occurred to me, "Of course! Route 66 was THE best east-west road in 1949--the interstate highway system was still a decade away. His family had a wind-up Victrola record player for 78 rpm records. We still had one in use in the mid 1950s (till I took it apart to study the mechanics of the gears, governor, and springs). There was no TV in the story. Cars were easier to understand -- all mechanical. Antibiotics would have made only the briefest appearance in 1949. Airline passenger trips wouldn't have been missed by 99% of the population.

Buxtebuddha November 17, 2016 at 20:46 #33528
Reply to Sapientia How'd you like A Brave New World? :)
Thorongil November 17, 2016 at 21:12 #33530
Reply to Mongrel Well, I suppose it's in order to understand myself and the world.
Mongrel November 17, 2016 at 22:13 #33543
Reply to Bitter Crank "Men go and come, but earth abides." Got the Kindle version. Thanks!
Mongrel November 17, 2016 at 22:16 #33545
Reply to Thorongil What in particular (about either yourself or the world) draws your attention as you go to understand?
BC November 17, 2016 at 23:03 #33552
Quoting Heister Eggcart
Heister Eggcart


Hester Eggcart sounds like a "a Cockney rhyme" or something -- probably something, and not a Cockney rhyme. Like one can write a monolog studded with words like your name, and it is quite funny. One I heard about Bill Clinton back in his Monica days is "Well, he was just one gorny huy." Horny guy. Get it?

So Meister Eckhart (1260—1328) comes out Heister Eggcart or Heister Eggfart or Heisted Eggparts or Hoisted Eggwarts.

So what's your name, does all this explain your handle?
BC November 17, 2016 at 23:11 #33554
Reply to Mongrel Let me know how you like it.
S November 18, 2016 at 00:08 #33563
Reply to Heister Eggcart I remember thinking, after I had just finished it, that its significance hadn't truly dawned upon me until near to the end of the book, and the actual ending itself, at which point my opinion changed. There were some good bits along the way, too. I like all of the satirical elements. I like how consumerism, amongst other things, is taken to extremes, so that the name "Ford" takes the place of "Lord", and they worship a "T" symbol (for the model T) rather than the Christian Cross. "Ending is better than mending" and "The more stitches, the less riches". There are some very interesting themes throughout: control, brainwashing, caste system, taboo, eugenics, sex, drugs, censorship...
Wosret November 18, 2016 at 03:13 #33585
Reply to Mongrel

That "unquestionable dominance" remark was a joke. It doesn't matter how strong and fit you are, God, or Nature might be nodding their divine heads, but people care about how decent and sufferable you are. Having people come around you merely for resources, food or shelter is the kind of relationship you have with pets and children, not peers.

All of the strength in the world won't bring you any closer to someone's heart. They may want what you have, or to be like you, but that isn't the same thing as knowing and loving you. That takes humility, vulnerability, and softness.

It's not about how hard you can hit, but rather, how hard of one you can take. People that espouse such a view clearly fear that they can't take much.
Mongrel November 18, 2016 at 04:55 #33609
Reply to Bitter Crank Okey doke. So far I love it.
Mongrel November 18, 2016 at 05:00 #33611
Quoting Wosret
That "unquestionable dominance" remark was a joke.


I know. My question came out of left field.. it's vaguely related to atheism,

Quoting Wosret
All of the strength in the world won't bring you any closer to someone's heart.


You're saying that what matters finally is love.




Wosret November 18, 2016 at 05:13 #33618
Reply to Mongrel

Love is all you need...

S November 18, 2016 at 15:52 #33675
Reply to Wosret Yes, who needs money or a roof over your head when you've got love?
Wosret November 18, 2016 at 19:35 #33699
Reply to Sapientia

Okay, those things are pretty sweet too, but are means to ends...
S November 18, 2016 at 19:39 #33701
Reply to Wosret Yes, means to ends. Ends which are not love.
Wosret November 18, 2016 at 19:49 #33704
Reply to Sapientia

The best one's are. Is the love talk triggering you? Owl's need love too.
Mongrel November 18, 2016 at 20:22 #33714
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