Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Gnostic Christian Bishop July 30, 2019 at 01:23 7050 views 18 comments

Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

https://biblehub.com/matthew/20-28.htm
Even as the Son of man came not to be served, but to serve,

At the end of the day, there is no physical or real supernatural God for us to follow. If there were, then logic and reason say that if such a God wanted to be relevant to man, he would show up.

All there can be are rules and laws that we think a God would give. Men have written up many such sets of rules while lying about being inspired by God. That is basically the moral of the Moses story with his coming off the mountain, not with a God, but with rules and laws.

Man is not slaved to his laws and rules and changes them as better ones are found. We, in effect, are evolving God, defined as rules and laws, and making him better.

All people accept this except for those in religions who idol worship the older barbaric Gods, whose laws are inferior to secular law. That would include the Christian and Muslim demiurges.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship. Faith is a way to quit using your, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Do you serve God and the laws and rules of life, or do you expect the laws, rules of life and God to serve you?

Regards
DL

Comments (18)

PoeticUniverse July 30, 2019 at 04:12 #311416 0 likes

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Not applicable. 'God' hasn't been established. Same for all else layered upon.

RegularGuy July 30, 2019 at 04:27 #311417 0 likes

Reply to Gnostic Christian Bishop

A few questions:

Do you believe that being religious and being a literalist are equivalent?

Are people who see religious myths as valuable and having wisdom religious people?

Do most people who value reason hold beliefs about matters of fact that cannot rise to the level of knowledge?

What is faith?

What is reason?

Gnostic Christian Bishop July 31, 2019 at 13:26 #311911 0 likes

Quoting PoeticUniverse

Not applicable. 'God' hasn't been established. Same for all else layered upon

That is why I focus on a logical question and not what has no end game.

You took the lazy way out of thinking so why are you even here?

Regards
DL.

Gnostic Christian Bishop July 31, 2019 at 13:32 #311919 0 likes

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

Do you believe that being religious and being a literalist are equivalent?

No. They are not defined the same way.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

Are people who see religious myths as valuable and having wisdom religious people?

No. There is wisdom in Mother Goose.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

Do most people who value reason hold beliefs about matters of fact that cannot rise to the level of knowledge?

Facts are true knowledge by definition.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

What is faith?

The bible defines it as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

What is reason?

Check your favorite dictionary as I am not offering a new definition.

Regards
DL

PoeticUniverse July 31, 2019 at 17:29 #311975 0 likes

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

You took the lazy way out of thinking so why are you even here?

It can be seen that I am here to note that 'God' is presumed to exist here, with then a request of logic and reason to focus on His 'serving'. To portray 'God' as already being truth and fact is misleading.

Gnostic Christian Bishop July 31, 2019 at 19:11 #311992 0 likes

Quoting PoeticUniverse

To portray 'God' as already being truth and fact is misleading.

From the O.P.

At the end of the day, there is no physical or real supernatural God for us to follow.

Now I see why you replied as you did. Poor reading comprehension.

Further, I cannot expect my target audience, Christians, to engage on a service issues without using their ideology as a take off point.

Regards
DL

PoeticUniverse July 31, 2019 at 19:30 #311999 0 likes

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

At the end of the day, there is no physical or real supernatural God for us to follow.

I consider 'God' as highly unlikely, as the lowest form of a 'maybe' that must be accorded. Due to the 'maybe', even if 'God' thought to be a one in a zillion chance, it is dishonest to say/teach/preach that either 'God' or 'no God' is a sure thing of fact and truth.

One can deeper dent into Christians by granting the generious 'maybe' and then challenging their honesty of teaching 'maybe' as a 'truth', as well as noting that further structures built or layered upon don't have an established foundation and so they have effectively now become twice removed, as kind of double and triple 'maybes'. The perceived structure of churches, rules, and a holy book attracts followers, yet, truly, at the end of the day, there is no knowing or showing, but just the wishes and hopes called 'faith' for those so inclined. Church attendance is dropping, as the older believers die off, with the younger generation getting smarter, I suppose.

fresco August 01, 2019 at 06:40 #312101 0 likes

You have been flogging gnosticism, both here and elsewhere, for the last couple of years without much 'success'. I put to you that any reliance of gnosticism on 'logic' is ridiculously naive, since logic is philosophically well known to be limited with respect to semantics.

Regarding this particular thread with the simplistic postural assertion about 'God as servant,' have you considered that any concept, from 'rocks' to 'gods' stands or falls on its functional utility to humans who coin it,? i.e. any concept serves human purposes, in terms of psychological and social needs. That includes your usage !

So there's your answer irrespective of any nebulous blather about the ontological status of 'God', you may try to dangle as 'bait' in your continuing self validation exercises.

Gnostic Christian Bishop August 01, 2019 at 13:49 #312166 0 likes

Quoting PoeticUniverse

with the younger generation getting smarter, I suppose.

Let us pray.

Yours was a good reply. Thanks.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Christian Bishop August 01, 2019 at 13:59 #312167 0 likes

Quoting fresco

have you considered that any concept, from 'rocks' to 'gods' stands or falls on its functional utility to humans who coin it,?

A false equivalency buddy.

When I look at a rock sliding down the hill at me, I know it is real and will move.

If I should look and see a god, he had better show his intention like the rock did to have me move.

If said god is Yahweh, I would move to kill him for his crimes against humanity.

Quoting fresco

for the last couple of years without much 'success'.

I think I have been quite successful and guide many away fro idol worship of a genocidal and infanticidal god.

Quoting fresco

So there's your answer

I agree that we created god to serve us.

I could have live without your other speculative nonsense.

If you do not like my style. too bad and go away.

Regards
DL

RegularGuy August 01, 2019 at 17:40 #312211 0 likes

Quoting Gnostic Christian Bishop

Do most people who value reason hold beliefs about matters of fact that cannot rise to the level of knowledge?
— Noah Te Stroete

Facts are true knowledge by definition.

But matters of fact are not all knowable, for example, whether or not there is a God and what Her nature would be. Do people generally and those who value reason hold a belief about certain or any matters of fact that cannot be proved? I suspect the majority do, and only a minority withhold judgment.

RegularGuy August 01, 2019 at 17:48 #312212 0 likes

Matters of fact are put to juries all the time, and they usually cannot be proved. The jury gives a unanimous verdict usually, but none of them know what is really true in many many cases.

fresco August 02, 2019 at 17:08 #312458 0 likes

Surely the onus 'to go away,' statistically remains with religious 'crazies' who infest cozy respectable philosophy forums instead of standing on draughty street corners with placards.

Gnostic Christian Bishop August 06, 2019 at 17:28 #313620 0 likes

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

But matters of fact are not all knowable,

An unknowable assumption.

We have yet to reach a limit. Everything is data, and we cannot store it all, as that would take more matter and energy than the universe can supply. What may be unknowable is who or what the god of the gaps of both religion and science are.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

for example, whether or not there is a God and what Her nature would be.

She would be knowable if she would do a miracle or such.

The fact that she does not speaks to her lack of reality. Just like all the other gods. Her nature would follow ours, of course.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

I suspect the majority do, and only a minority withhold judgment.

I would not ague against subjective view but I would not say a minority. Few would be the word I would use. More like the lunatic fringe.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete

usually

Eh. No.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Christian Bishop August 06, 2019 at 17:29 #313622 0 likes

Reply to fresco

For evil to grow and all that buddy.

Regards
DL

fresco August 06, 2019 at 18:34 #313644 0 likes

That's a pretty self indulgent assumption !... that you are 'a good man' rather than being merely parasitic on the standard theistic faith of others who also lay claim to 'goodness'. I suggest you face up to the fact that without the psychological palliative and social tunctionality which established that constructed 'God' of others, you would have nothing to say. And since what you say fails to address those psychological and social needs, you are talking to yourself.

fresco August 06, 2019 at 18:56 #313645 0 likes

Ah...I seem to remember that gnostics consider themselves to be 'God' (or a manifestation thereof). If so, you presumably have the power to forgive your 'self-indulgence' !.. Great move !

Gnostic Christian Bishop August 06, 2019 at 20:19 #313677 0 likes

I forgive mine, just as I forgive you yours here.
That would be more of a god than a God. ;-)
Regards
DL