How to combat suicidal thoughts?
I've been struggling with suicidal thoughts since I was 15. Now, I am nearly 29 and the thoughts are reaching a crescendo. A lot of stuff has been going on; but, the persuasiveness of the thoughts are becoming too real. The rationale is that I don't feel like I'm in control of my life, and have to deal with too much crap going on around me.
The main motivating force is that I know I will die at some point of my life and having control as to when and how is quite appealing. The only reason why I do go on living instead of committing suicide is that I have a caring mother. It would be too much for her to handle for me to do such an act. Not that she wouldn't be able to cope with it; but, I don't want her to suffer because of my selfish act.
Now, I have tried countless medications, therapy, and such; but, the thoughts are zapping away what little enthusiasm for life that I have. I am in a precarious state of wanting to go on and not wanting to go on.
It's been nearly fifteen years of trying to banish the bad thoughts away, yet, here I still am in this miserable state of existence. Any thoughts or help appreciated.
Please don't just focus on "me" here, as I do notice quite a few of these motifs around here too by other members.
The main motivating force is that I know I will die at some point of my life and having control as to when and how is quite appealing. The only reason why I do go on living instead of committing suicide is that I have a caring mother. It would be too much for her to handle for me to do such an act. Not that she wouldn't be able to cope with it; but, I don't want her to suffer because of my selfish act.
Now, I have tried countless medications, therapy, and such; but, the thoughts are zapping away what little enthusiasm for life that I have. I am in a precarious state of wanting to go on and not wanting to go on.
It's been nearly fifteen years of trying to banish the bad thoughts away, yet, here I still am in this miserable state of existence. Any thoughts or help appreciated.
Please don't just focus on "me" here, as I do notice quite a few of these motifs around here too by other members.
Comments (69)
At worst such change will put the previous ‘lack of control’ in perspective.
One of the few things that I learned about depression is that it is mainly a lack of sense of control in one's life that contributes to the malaise. Yet, I have meager income and little that I can do about my current situation. I have thought about moving out; but, have no savings or money I can spare to move out of the country. Ideally, I want to return back to Europe and live out my days over there.
But, the issue is that somewhere back in the recesses of my mind, there is a part of "me" that drags me down and observes me in this precarious state and when "it" sees the opportunity, then it lunges forward and chastizes me for choosing to live. When I don't listen to this part of me, it tends to manifest in bad decision makings, such as seeking out drugs or some such matter. It really wants things its way...
It sucks, or this part of me needs to go away for me to move on in life, yet it is there.
Have you ever had depression?
My simplistic understanding is that sometimes it is best to hit the bottom in order to bounce up again ... but sadly it’s not without pain and not without risk. Generally speaking fear can be extremely debilitating. I personally think most of people’s day-to-day woes are a repercussion of ‘fear’ - which is, in my experience, 95-99% misleading and/or stupefying.
There is no one size fits all approach, but I firmly believe that addressing inner fears and concerns is a good road to start on - with or without trepidation (depends on individual circumstances). Honestly with the ‘self’ is always ‘partial’ honesty :)
I have been living on rock bottom for about 4-5 years. No income, on disability, nothing really accomplished, even college not completed. I mean, I don't mean to come off as a slob; but, I really did try throwing myself at trying to accomplish something since I moved back to the states 10 years ago. College, military service, maintaining a simple job, been there done that. Now, that I am on disability, it's figurately rock bottom for me, and the only way forward is upward. Yet, I often repeat to myself in a mantra, that I have everything I could wish for and that I should be more appreciative or grateful for what I already have.
What am I getting wrong here?
Apart from my personal experiences with that topic I think that people should not kill themselves until they have reached the age of about forty. A lot of things can happen when you are young (and 29 is still young), but when you have reached age 40 you have seen what is in stock for you. The rest can be extrapolated from the way travelled so far
From the philosophical viewpoint I do not see any reason why somebody should not switch off his or her own light. It's just a shortcut to nirvana. Nobody is obliged to wait and suffer till the reaper comes and drags you to the grave.
One of the first steps is to be frighteningly honest with yourself. If you can't mitigate your depressive habits, find out why you need them. Then challenge it.
You have to live like life's a battle on all fronts, since your mind has a habit of following you everywhere.
"I don’t know: perhaps it’s a dream, all a dream. (That would surprise me.) I’ll wake, in the silence, and never sleep again. (It will be I?) Or dream (dream again), dream of a silence, a dream silence, full of murmurs (I don’t know, that’s all words), never wake (all words, there’s nothing else).
You must go on, that’s all I know.
They’re going to stop, I know that well: I can feel it. They’re going to abandon me. It will be the silence, for a moment (a good few moments). Or it will be mine? The lasting one, that didn’t last, that still lasts? It will be I?
You must go on.
I can’t go on.
You must go on.
I’ll go on. You must say words, as long as there are any - until they find me, until they say me. (Strange pain, strange sin!) You must go on. Perhaps it’s done already. Perhaps they have said me already. Perhaps they have carried me to the threshold of my story, before the door that opens on my story. (That would surprise me, if it opens.)
It will be I? It will be the silence, where I am? I don’t know, I’ll never know: in the silence you don’t know.
You must go on.
I can’t go on.
I’ll go on."
(Beckett.)
Well, forty isn't that far away. But, if anyone has been in depression, they know that time tends to drag out quite a bit, and sometimes weeks feel like months, and months feel like years. I will probably make a final decision when my mother passes away, which I hope will come about as far away into the future as possible. Having at least one person that cares about you makes everything worthwhile in my mind.
I will continue on this haphazardous existence that fate has dealt me, I don't want to encourage suicide although the thought is appealing as hell (pun intended?).
Best of luck to you.
Tried that. Talked with my therapist, and he has the attitude of being honest with me when I am not with myself as much as I should.
But, when depression robs you of any desire to get better, then what do you do? Cope?
:strong:
Will just leave this here.
It might be worth contemplating why you have such a need for control of everything that you'd rather die sooner while having control of it than live longer while not having control of how you'll die.
In short, why is control even more important than life to you?
What is it in your experiences and dispositions so far that gives you such an overpowering need for control?
All I got out of the concept of "games people play" was the wrong assumption that the depressive likes the game her or she plays. In most cases, the depressive simply hates playing games at all. In my case, I never cared for establishing a relationship.
Deep question. Goes back to how my father blew up our already meager family relationship. In short, given my upbringing, I've become averse to either being in control (over the fear of losing control), and not being in control (over the fear of losing control).
It's a no-win attitude that is exacerbated by my depression. (insight achieved?)
I'm not saying you like it. I think the deeper point of games people play is that it reveals that patterns and habits which are difficult to break usually have some pay off.
Maybe it would help to focus on being more comfortable in situations where you're not in control?
It is an audio book that helped me greatly before I ever reached the suicidal point, but I believe it could be of help.
Everything in life is just an experience. This includes depression. Use this experience to grow.
Realise that you are not in complete control of your mind. If you were you wouldn't be depressed.
It is reasonable to assume then that these thoughts are not yours, and therefore it is necessary to distance them from your deliberate thoughts. They are not yours, and not your concern as it were.
In case too, then, this means suicidal thoughts and intentions are not yours and should be seen only as 'passers by'.
Acceptance of this starts regaining control of your mind, and your life. Bad days happen. That's ok. They are done. They have happened and can't be changed. Bad days will happen again, this is no reason to worry now. All this achieves is another bad day today. Be aware of your thoughts and where they come from.
Please listen to the book.
I don't have the luxury anymore of choosing my therapist or psychiatrist. Anyway, I've seen my fair share of head shrinkers and pill pushers here and in Europe.
I was never able to discern a common theme over the span of my duration of visiting those people.
In this regard, I lack insight into my own condition, and I really have no idea who would be able to discern the chaff from the wheat. All I have are a diagnosis that is being addressed individually with medication.
To be quite honest, I see this as a philosophical issue. Namely, as to whether attitudes can be psychologized in any way. I'm assuming that they can't.
Well, I have set myself up for a situation that I have no need to control anything. I'm on disability and have no desire to change things as they stand. This attitude is essentially, a huge "f*ck you" both to others and myself. A super-volition if you will.
Thanks, man, I'll see if I can muster up anything and give it a skim.
Like literally.
I will be awaiting a message :)
It is available on audible, I'm pretty sure they do a free 30 day trial, and you can cancel it and keep the free month
I don't mean to be a debby downer, but people without insight typically don't know where they lack insight.
Then, you point it out for me if you care to. Is this a motivational issue or generic depression?
I'm going to assume both, so in that case what can be done about my lack of interest in games people play? This goes more towards my meta-sentiment of misanthropy and projection...
Now, that's some scary shit.
Ignored each individually thought is nothing.
How many random thoughts have popped into your head in your lifetime. How many do you remember? Make the bad thoughts one you forget.
Ah, but they do tend to leave a lasting impression on one's psyche. Tangled up garbage.
There's "hope" speaking out once in a while.
Spend time in contemplation, or even meditation. I do not know the severity of your disability, but taking walks outdoors could be an option. If your disability prevents you from taking walks, I would recommend sitting oneself in the outdoors with nothing else to do but to think.
A somewhat related question, do you spend a lot of time behind a computer? Overstimulation can cause all sorts of psychological (and eventually physical) ailments, from anxiety to depression, and can worsen these symptoms in those who already suffer from them.
Also, I can recommend taking cold showers, preferably first thing in the morning.
Yes, pretty much. Although, I have found this to be an issue as of late. Namely, the retardation of identity formation enhanced through too much online presence.
How in the name of Hell am I supposed to know how you think? It's not my responsibility to think through your habits, it's your responsibility. Well, it is if you actually want to fight it, rather than giving the mere appearance of fighting it and leaving it at that.
Ok, sorry for coming off awry. Thanks for your input!
No need for the apology.
Rather than apologising I'd rather you dropped what I suspect is a euphemism. Thank you for your input, really? This is what customer services tell clients they want to fuck off.
Uhh, not intended as that. I gave you or myself or whatever the case may-be the impression that the problem was solved, which it hasn't, and hence, I'm backing off on the cavalier attitude to solve this issue as if it can be solved via an online forum, as you seemingly suggested, it just can't.
I don't know if this will help at all - thoughts are viscous and weird when you're there, this is abstract - but there's an idea that suicidal thought is a final temptation before actual, beneficial, change. It's like you have a set of interrelated thoughts and habits that is no longer working, and is ripe for sloughing off. But the mind is so resistant to shedding battle-tested armor that it gets confused and tries to preserve the armor even at the cost of what the armor was initially meant to protect.
You could also think of the pain and confusion as a corrosive element dissolving the old skin - if you just hang on long enough, and attend as best you can to what's happening, you'll come out on the other end better equipped.
The paradox is it has to seem really bleak before you're willing to let go of what seemed protective but is now hurting.
Last time I went through a suicidal spell, I came out the other side with a girlfriend (which had been, to me, an impossibility) and a clear awareness of what blocks me. It didn't lift the blocks entirely, but it did lay a minimal groundwork for moving forward. Anecdotal evidence, naturally, but at least sometimes it works itself out.
In any case, I hope you feel better.
I’d be interested in knowing how you feel from chatting here. Has it been beneficial in any way?
Yeah, the thought seems to have subsided. It's like some form of twisted self-therapy, where they emerge and I have to start appreciating what I have or what have you. I don't know how else to put it. I suppose I need a girlfriend or something of that sort to keep me in check.
Immensely. This is probably the only place on the internet, where you can open up and try and form some coherent whole of what's going on. Laying down the negative thoughts helps a great deal and them combating them with rationality is helpful, to say the least.
Ehh, thoughts. Aren't they all silly?
I'm sure I can make it to the next Star Wars film. :blush:
Playing video games, while listening to music, checking news sites, social media, etc. As you undoubtedly know these things cause your body to produce dopamine. If one introduces too much dopamine for too long, the brain becomes desensitized and no longer experiences stimulation from the dopamine the body can naturally produce.
Another effect can be stress and anxiety, produced by the speedy, continuous feed of information one may feel forced to keep up with ("fear of missing out", for example). As you undoubtedly know also, stress can cause depression or worsen its symptoms.
If this sounds in any way familiar to you, I would recommend spending a couple of hours a day away from the screen doing other, less overstimulating things. Go outside and read a book, perhaps listen to music that relaxes you. Take a walk or engage in physical exercise. If your disability disallows you from physical exercise, try mental exercise, for example chess. Enjoy the small things in life. Watch a sunset or a beautiful skyscape. Sit by the lakeside and listen to the water. These are just some suggestions.
Yeah, my issues with dopamine go pretty deep. As a child I had some pretty bad ADHD, as an adult now I have ADD-PI. I've tried numerous drugs to straighten me out; but, the only thing that I can safely take is now Strattera.
Sucks; but, it is what it is.
Works for me.
Sounds like you found a niche in the shoe market. Lol, good luck!
I would need some more stuff to do that.
For myself at least nothing really helped me out of a bad spot. But medication and therapy helped me get through a bad spot. I never felt better really when things were wrong, but such effects made the affect feel less bad -- as if I could get to the next day.
I think that usually, for most folk, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It's unfair that you have to go through that tunnel, but hey life was never fair. It's an odd waiting game where everything you can do is more indirect rather than direct -- it's not about feeling good now, it's about coping with a disconnection from your emotions now however you can do so.
And it's not the sort of thing that is cured in the sense of *erased* -- it's much more like a torn tendon. It goes away, and you learn to even run again, but you always feel it a little after the fact when the weather is awry.
EDIT: I guess in a way I mean you don't really combat them, you live with them. And through living with them they become less influential -- "combat" indicates something far too direct for something that actually works. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but seems to work for me.
Quoting Wallows
Is the problem due to the feeling that you don't have control, or is it because you think that you have even less control of your life then what you think other people have over their life? If it is the first then it sounds like you have some kind of phobia with dealing with certain issues in life and the angst in confronting (or even thinking about confronting) these issues are overwhelming you much like any object that one has a phobia of.
If it is the second issue then it is unlikely you are aware of how very little control most people have in their lives. Also to the best of my knowledge, everyone feels like they are given too much crap to deal with and they more or less deal with it by dealing with only as much of it as they can at a given time and by leaving the rest of it for another day.
Quoting Wallows
One of the things they don't tell the general public at large about dying is there is a good probability that the last few minutes person is conscience before they die is likely the WORST few minutes of our lives that many of us will go through. The reason for this is that when oxygen gets cut off from the brain it can usually survive for 5 to 10 minutes without issue but it lasts longer than 10 minutes then the risks become greater and greater the longer the brain doesn't get oxygen to it that the person will have brain damage or can not be revived at all. The odd thing is that in an oxygen deprived environment the brain can survive up to an hour without oxygen (although it is almost a given that a person will lose conscience before their brain actually dies) since it the process of reintroducing oxygen to the brain that is traumatizing/potentially damaging to the tissues in our brains.
The point of this information is to explain that when people are dying they often don't go after their heart stops beating for a few minutes and people stop trying to revive them, they go several minutes later when their brain becomes too oxygen deprived to survive any longer. I could be wrong, but it is plausible that if someone is still conscience at this point (which is possible due to all the chemicals your body produces and all the other things it does when is going through a near death situation) that they would experience something like a combination of both asphyxiation/drowning and paralysis at the same time. I don't know if you have ever experienced a situation where you can't move or do anything and can't breath, but I believe it is likely as bad or worse then the anxiety of worrying when one might die.
Quoting Wallows
To be honest I had something to say when I first started writing this reply, but I think I forgot what it was by the time I got here. As a nihilist I really don't believe there is an ethical reason for a person to choose to live instead of offing themselves (since about 98-99.9% of us will never do anything important in our lifetime, and even the small number that do something it in and of itself may not really have been necessary), so I'm not the kind of person to blow sunshine up their backside in order for them to feel better about the way things are. Maybe reading dark humor demotivation posters or some Buddhism might help but then again they may not. I think many people just try one thing after another until they find something that works or at least until they get bored of doing that and merely digress into Hedonists and give up on any real purpose for anything. I'm not really sure how it is supposed to work. :P
So, you are talking about coping here, I think. Yes, I suppose this is the only way to live with depression. I have started numerous threads about depression, and have come to terms with it as best I could. I mean, it sucks that I will be this way; but, there's only so many medications or therapies one can trial before coming to the conclusion that the issue will always be a part of you.
I think you are right here. It is some phobia. I'm not sure what exactly a phobia of what. I think it has to do with wanting to live a life of ease without any hindrance in the form of responsibilities or duties to fulfill.
Quoting dclements
Reminds me of: "Before I speak I have something important I want to say", by Groucho Marx.
Quoting dclements
What do you mean by hedonism? The usual connotation is someone that shoots up heroin every morning or such. Yet, in nature, I doubt you'd find many animals that actually behave this way, with purposeful intent to increase their hedonic impulse.
For example, imagine in as much detail as possible the experience of falling off a tall building and hitting the bottom, either through accident or willful suicide, and contemplate the resulting loss of perception, thoughts and memories. Any realistic contemplation of death should reject the association of any particular thought or experience with it. Hence this contemplation, which works with suicidal thoughts rather than fighting them, could potentially constitute a therapeutic process of "letting go" of everything, including introspection and suicidal thoughts.
I think I've mentioned this analogy before, but think of diabetes. There is no cure for diabetes. There are strategies for living with diabetes. Now if a cure comes along of course we'd be interested in taking it. But there is an undue amount of stress you can put yourself through by thinking that you'll be cured in your lifetime and once that cure finally comes through then I can get on with the process of living.
There are just some conditions that do not have a cure. And depression might be such a condition for yourself, as it is for myself. In which case all you can do is identify the symptoms, recognize them for what they are, and wait for them to lessen (or not, if they do not) while you go on living. It's just another thing to recognize as outside of your (direct) control.
That's a bitter pill to swallow. There are countless ways to get into and out of depression. I admire the folk that is stuck in between and manages with it as best they can.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CP1YOeNnZac
All boils down to a matter of willpower, which I have analyzed endlessly. People demand that the world change them, and in this sentiment, weakness is born. Quite Nietzscian.
As a sentiment perhaps. But willpower isn't a scientifically admissible cause of human action. Rather, willpower is the force one exerts in the pursuit of an incentive. Depressives most often lack the latter, rather than the former.
acceptable so in other words 'The world is never work as we think'.
So, you are equating the two here? If so, then what does that mean?
I'm saying 'will-power' should be considered as referring to the expression of motivation, but not the cause of motivation. For behaviour is goal-driven, and the causes of motivation are incentives.
Unfortunately, society has a habit of referring to motivated people as being 'self motivated', which is illogical and leads to the social stigmatization and neglect of depressed people, who often depend on society to provide them with meaningful incentives.
Thanks Alan, I try.
That sounds awfully behaviorist.
Quoting sime
I don't quite think this is right. How would you explain the clinical symptom of anhedonia?
While there are undoubtedly neurological correlates of depression, i think that in many cases they are likely to be the product of the brain's normally functioning neuro-plasticity, where the brain has responded in an expected and predictable fashion to long-term repeated stressors in a hostile or unrewarding environment. This will be the case if a person's anhedonia is sufficiently improved by having his actual psychological needs fulfilled.
Unfortunately, psychiatrists and GPs don't normally have the resources to test this hypothesis, whilst society is eager to blame the biology of depressives in order to let itself of the hook, thereby preventing wealth redistribution.
I'd like to hear a straight answer, why, what exactly is bothering you, what is the very source of the suicidal thoughts?
"Thinking about committing suicide? We can help." And a contact phone number.
I am not making this up.
I've had a similar experience. You don't have to commit suicide to get killed. Find a country that you disagree with their view points and go there an make the wrong people angry. If this seems too negative then volunteer your time to this or that or some cause. Your right, your mother would be very upset if you commited suicide. i wouldn't wish suicide on hitler, and i certainly wouldn't wish it on someone like you. The only reason i don't smoke cigarretes is because i can't afford them right now. There are plenty of people out there worse than you. I struggle with guilt and so do alot of people with depression. I take comfort that people get killed everyday and i could be next. Try to enjoy life buddy and don't upset your Mother.