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Marijuana and Philosophy

Grre April 24, 2019 at 16:44 21300 views 115 comments
Over the last year, after becoming a more substantial marijuana user, i have tried to access studies regarding marijuana's affect on the mind/cognitive abilities, including of course, abstract thought (inherent to philosophy of course).

I'm curious to what extent people have had experience with marijuana and philosophical thought/discussion. I can say from experience that I don't conceive of much original philosophical thought when I'm high (nor do I write as clearly) but I have on occasion, made some breakthroughs while in discussion with someone else when I'm high...also I tend to appreciate philosophy more when I'm high. ie. Once I spent an entire day watching documentaries on Sartre, something I wouldn't have probably done sober.

But on the flip side, marijuana I have noticed also impairs good mental functioning the following day. Also, there's those who have no background/understanding of philosophy yet when they're high, start saying cliched phrases like "what if nothing is real bro".

I guess I just feel like one overlooked area in philosophical inquiry, particularly philosophy of the mind, is drug use-particularly 'natural' drugs like marijuana (or mushrooms, but they are more commonly cited).

Comments (115)

I like sushi April 24, 2019 at 16:53 #281240
Reply to Grre

Once I spent an entire day watching documentaries on Sartre, something I wouldn't have probably done sober.


There’s gotta be a joke in there somewhere! Make your own punchline folks. :razz:

Here’s something related:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/experiences-of-ultimate-reality-or-god-confer-lasting-benefits-to-mental-health?fbclid=IwAR1hTS29kyFqpygHtfmJUQYtPzo46qhq0cJ48HW3oxvKAGmQR3CO0DBfXsY
fdrake April 24, 2019 at 17:08 #281246
Trying to study things rigorously when on marijuana doesn't work so well, usually. I tried. A lot. It probably depends on the strength of it too, if you're smoking crazy-ass skunk I'd be surprised if you could muster the mental discipline to check your thoughts even if you make many more associations than you would while thinking sober.

There's only one time I've found it helpful, specifically for revising one idea in maths I knew the formulas and algorithms for inside out, but didn't really understand precisely why the formula was defined the way it was. It required a ritual of sorts. I studied the definition (soberly) thoroughly for about 3 hours straight, focussed on the definition, taking apart every term in it and linking it to a sketch of the idea, but I couldn't synthesise all the sketches and sub-formulas in my head at once. I got frustrated, because I'd been banging my head against a conceptual wall for hours, and decided to lock myself in my room and smoke up while studying the definition and the sketches.

I can still remember the definition to this day 'the pair correlation function of r of a spatial point pattern is the rate of change of the expected number of points in a ball of radius r divided by the volume of the ball with respect to the ball radius normalised with the average intensity of the pattern', and the trippy visualisation I got for it.

But that was it working well once. After.... err... many other failed attempts on other things.

In summary: I don't think it actually helps you think rigorously, but it might help you make associations if you already understand something rigorously.

Pattern-chaser April 24, 2019 at 17:21 #281251
I've found it useful to enhance creativity, to help it along. I think it enhances (only) instinctive or intuitive thought, so could be unhelpful when revising facts.
Daniel Cox April 24, 2019 at 17:59 #281273
Reply to Grre Hi, addiction recovery is my bread & butter.

Been through the CORE Curriculum upwards of 7 times. Sadly, all of academia for the last century plus hasn't cared about addiction or anything meaningful, it was lost in their quest for moral neutrality.

CORE is Co-Occurring Recovery Education, the CO = Mental illness & drug addiction.

Sometimes the mental clinic gets it right by accident. Most of the workers in the mental health field actually care about the people they're being paid to cure and stumble across one of very few people in this world who have the answers.

Johann Hari - TED Talks - Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong.

"What if addiction isn't about your chemical hooks? What if addiction is about your cage, what if an addiction is an adaptation to your environment?" - Hari.

It was early on in the six plus years I've been participating in therapy groups where I had a breakthrough. It was a Behavioral Health Specialist III and about my favorite worker at the clinic, a peer support specialist, who were both helping me get to the root of my addiction when I realized I started smoking pot as a gateway drug after my brother was hooked based on our dad marrying a horrific, diabolical, backstabbing bitch of an outhouse whore. It was our environment, "It's not your fault, it's not your fault, it's not your fault." - Good Will Hunting.

It's that word, "substantial." That's why my love is saying, "Get a support group." I've learned as much from other patients to be free as I have the so-called "professionals." Look at the core of the comments here, we all know that recreational marijuana use (I was King at one time) doesn't help our education.
VagabondSpectre April 24, 2019 at 19:24 #281293
Reply to fdrake For me, marijuana doesn't at all help with rigor, but sometimes it does help with focus problems caused by uninteresting subject matter.

If I have a lot on my mind, and I need to exert some mental effort toward something that is very boring, then THC will help me be comfortable while forcing myself to confront it. Normally when people are "stoned", their minds will ramble and wander through a series of seemingly random subjects, which causes stoners to generally accomplish nothing. For whatever reason, I'm able to instead use it like a Ritalin (although it doesn't improve my thinking per se; it just makes me mentally relaxed and comfortable despite the situation).

Maybe it helps me with creativity in some ways, but I know that when I'm not high I'm quicker-witted and that I write better.

If it does help me think, it's because it allows me to control my emotions.
VagabondSpectre April 24, 2019 at 19:37 #281298
In novice smokers, marijuana can cause acute paranoia, which can form interesting, albeit ridiculous, lines of thought...
Shawn April 24, 2019 at 22:03 #281340
Quoting Grre
I guess I just feel like one overlooked area in philosophical inquiry, particularly philosophy of the mind, is drug use-particularly 'natural' drugs like marijuana (or mushrooms, but they are more commonly cited)


I've been involved in the nootropics movement for a good 8 years. Marijuana by most standards is not considered a "nootropic". So, whatever falls under the category (which you seem to be searching for) of "nootropic" seems to imply that has some benefit to the discussion.

Now, there's the case of "behavioral effects" that are independent of what is considered "nootropic" in-of-itself. Is that the case here? I think so.
Shawn April 24, 2019 at 22:06 #281341
So, just to give an example.

Ritalin is considered a "nootropic" due to its effects on memory consolidation and cognitive function.

Amphetamine is not typically considered a nootropic, yet, is more effective than Ritalin at treating ADHD.

Both are used to treat ADHD.


So, what gives? Again, behavioral effects are independent of cognitive enhancing effects.
Shawn April 24, 2019 at 22:18 #281342
Also, if you're looking at trying to potentiate the high of marijuana, try some caffeine or agmatine. Blast off!
Christoffer April 26, 2019 at 09:43 #282052
The observations I've made is that it can trigger an experience of constant deja vu. I.e you experience something and you remember it happened before but didn't. With a bit more you get the same sensation with muscles, making the choice to move your arm feels like it happens after you move the arm. It makes the jaw feel strange when speaking since the conscious speak feels like happening after the mouth forms the words.

I was thinking about the effect THC has on patients with severe Parkinson's disease. Studies have shown that they regain a lot of control over their muscles and movements after taking it. By my observations, it might be that Parkinson's disease disjoints the nerve signals so that the intention to move and the movement gets fractured and overlap. So after my observations, the separation of intention to move and the movement itself might be why patients with Parkinson's disease experience an improvement in movement, since the overlapping and disjointed nerve signals separate so far between intention and movement that it no longer overlaps as much as without it.
ArguingWAristotleTiff April 26, 2019 at 13:13 #282108
Quoting Christoffer
I was thinking about the effect THC has on patients with severe Parkinson's disease. Studies have shown that they regain a lot of control over their muscles and movements after taking it. By my observations, it might be that Parkinson's disease disjoints the nerve signals so that the intention to move and the movement gets fractured and overlap. So after my observations, the separation of intention to move and the movement itself might be why patients with Parkinson's disease experience an improvement in movement, since the overlapping and disjointed nerve signals separate so far between intention and movement that it no longer overlaps as much as without it.

Wow! Keep thinking Christoffer! If you wish you can read thru my mostly emotional posts in my history but let me just touch on a few things you are pondering and see what you think.
You are the first who I have seen focusing on the effects of the THC which because of the Reefer Madness bs has been summarily dismissed for the CBD and it's antinflamitory affects. The path you are on is the one less travelled, one which you are ahead of me on and that is impressive to me seeing as how long I have been on this pursuit measures in the decades. My Dad passed away last summer from complications of Parkinson's disease and as an advocate for Cannabis, I thought a lot about what I could have done for him had he lived in my state. 10+ years into his disease he was as sharp mentally as he ever was. I listened to him as he would tell me his struggles as he became confined to a nursing home. When we would eat, his shaking would be impacted to the degree that 10% of what he started with made it to his mouth. As a practicing Mormon, it was the best I could do to get him to drink caffeine to help control the tremors. Caffeine helped but made him "think" about the next in life and he didn't want to think more about the inevitable, which is when I stopped pushing the caffeine. But Cannabis...to have the fresh, never explored, Endocannabinoid receptor system already in place in the patient? I will be accused of seeing Cannabis as a panacea and at times I let it stifle my words but not in my actions.
As you look for the effects on Parkinson's, I am in active pursuit of the impact Cannabis can have not just treating the symptoms of Alzheimer's dis-ease but in using Cannabis profolactictly, to keep the plaque from ever forming.
Part of my theory is based on the idea that if someone is administered a concentrated dose of Cannabis within 48 hrs of an event that has a history of producing traumatic result, it can keep the nueropathways from holding onto the stress and has the potential to reduce the chances of PTS in soldiers and maybe onto the general population at some point.
Whether it is Parkinson's and the muscle memory I think you are speaking of which has been shown to be overcome with music that the patient knows the dance beat to with no shuffle or Parkinson's instability. My thought is that music crosses both sides of the brain barrier and muscles have enough memory within them, that somehow that connection is stable again.
Just before I go, when I talk about muscle memory, I use the analogy of a coiled garden hose. If you wrap the hose the right way, the way it knows, it coils easily. But when you try to reverse coil the hose, you are likely in for a fight to keep it from getting tangled up in it's efforts to return to it's original coil. That which you are fighting to reverse coil is similar to the 'memory' that muscles have and in a Parkinson's patient I wonder if you are onto something with Cannabis, specifically THC, and tapping into the muscle memory in the way music does.
Keep thinking Christoffer and keep posting your ideas for we are here, standing beside you, even if it doesn't always feel that way. The impact we have on one life at a time adds up but maybe more importantly is when we can help those we love most in life. :sparkle:
Oh and Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Pattern-chaser May 03, 2019 at 13:29 #285228
Quoting VagabondSpectre
In novice smokers, marijuana can cause acute paranoia


Oh, thank you. I've never experienced it myself. I didn't know it was mainly novices that suffer.
Pattern-chaser May 03, 2019 at 13:39 #285230
Quoting Christoffer
By my observations, it might be that Parkinson's disease disjoints the nerve signals so that the intention to move and the movement gets fractured and overlap.


Please be careful about theorising what people with neurological conditions might experience - unless you have Parkinson's yourself? I have MS, and your 'explanation' seems garbled to me. How much do you know about the human CNS, and how it actually works?
Shawn May 03, 2019 at 14:26 #285239
Quoting Pattern-chaser
Oh, thank you. I've never experienced it myself. I didn't know it was mainly novices that suffer.


I could never get around the anxiety and paranoia that MJ produces. Every time I smoke it I become hyper-aware of my surroundings. A rather uncomfortable feeling, despite what others might say. Your mileage may vary.
VagabondSpectre May 03, 2019 at 20:38 #285376
Reply to Pattern-chaser I think teenagers are most vulnerable to the paranoia. (maybe it magnifies angst for them). But generally it just chills people out (especially "indica" strains that are high in CBD, opposed to "sativa' strains that are higher in THC).

It affects everyone differently, and your attitude going into it will probably color your experience, should you choose to do so. Novice smokers get a lot more "high", so results vary most greatly with initial usage.
Grre May 04, 2019 at 01:55 #285439
Reply to VagabondSpectre
From personal experience, marijuana can certainly heighten paranoia when done in ituations/circumstances that are uncomfortable/negative or otherwise, as you point out, experience with marijuana and the various strain.
When I first smoked/ate edibles back in high school (15-16) I was incredibly anxious and unhappy, I was worried I would be caught, and was friends with a "rougher" more judgmental crowd that laughed at me and made me feel insecure on a regular basis. Then I went to university and everything changed, I made good friends and started vaping it regularly, often in the comfort of my own room. My experienced changed drastically. Now I take medicinal marijuana (indica) almost every night to help combat my anxiety and depression, yes I will admit, it does make you lazy and not a lot of "productive" philosophy is done while high, only brainstorming and random research. But I'm not productive at all when I'm anxious, my anxiety has gotten so bad that I could not sit down and read let alone, write something of merit.
VagabondSpectre May 04, 2019 at 01:58 #285441
Reply to Grre I 100% support moderated medical usage. It's so gratifying to see social mores about it change right before our eyes.

Also true about the impact on productivity, which is one of the few reasons I don't smoke it constantly!
Shawn May 04, 2019 at 02:05 #285446
Quoting Grre
Now I take medicinal marijuana (indica) almost every night to help combat my anxiety and depression, yes I will admit, it does make you lazy and not a lot of "productive" philosophy is done while high, only brainstorming and random research. But I'm not productive at all when I'm anxious, my anxiety has gotten so bad that I could not sit down and read let alone, write something of merit.


Hmm, self medication tends to be a dead end. But, my experience is similar to yours in that I vaped cannabis a lot in college. Everyone at my college was on some kind of drug. Though, it helped me read material related to studies. Many people claim that marijuana helps ease ADHD, which is most likely true.

There are some studies linking cannabis use with an intensification of social anxiety by the very use of the drug, which is one of the reasons I don't smoke it anymore.
Merkwurdichliebe May 04, 2019 at 03:42 #285455
Quoting Wallows
There are some studies linking cannabis use with an intensification of social anxiety by the very use of the drug, which is one of the reasons I don't smoke it anymore.


I'm all for social anxiety. If everyone in society smoked the fine herbals, and it amplified their anxiety, they would be forced to live with it, or deal with it. But that would also mean they couldn't resort to the big pharma drug lords with all their demonic poison. I think everyone would chill out, man.
Shawn May 04, 2019 at 03:51 #285456
Reply to Merkwurdichliebe

Impressive. Pick your poison?
Merkwurdichliebe May 04, 2019 at 03:54 #285457
Reply to Wallows
Right?

Thank God for the free world.

Merkwurdichliebe May 04, 2019 at 03:56 #285458
Reply to Wallows

I think this thread would've got more hits if it was titled: Marijuana for Philosophy .
Shawn May 04, 2019 at 04:04 #285460
TheMadFool May 04, 2019 at 08:32 #285486
Reply to Grre Philosophers and drugs

Do you see any breakthroughs?
Pattern-chaser May 05, 2019 at 12:42 #285778
Quoting TheMadFool
Do you see any breakthroughs?


Plenty, I imagine. ... Provided, of course, we remember to spend some time in sober reflection, following our stoned insights. :smile: Some of those insights are thoroughly worthwhile; others prove to be less, er, useful. :up: It's our creative faculties that can be enhanced by marijuana, but this enhancement is matched by a similar dis-benefit when carrying out more rigorous tasks, like a code review (if you're into software), or the like.
Grre May 06, 2019 at 00:19 #286087
Reply to Wallows

I think again, it depends on context and circumstance. I certainly would feel anxious if I was smoking around my family/or with people I didn't particularly like or trust (or at least, I used to).
But marijuana helps me so much with my generalized anxiety because it allows me 1) to sleep, or at least, calm myself down enough to sleep/relax 2) eat, when I was severely depressed and anxious in the winter I could not usually bring myself to eat more than a bagel a day-the only time I could stop feeling anxious long enough to really eat (and enjoy the food I ate) was when I was high, it was scary watching myself lose so much weight and having no energy and 3) marijuana makes anxiety/fears less 'real'; my anxiety means that I often overthink/evaluate certain events, and I seem to perceive threats and react, even when the threat is not really there-my anxiety thus threatened all my relationships with people; being anxious all the time + not eating meant not only did I not have the energy to properly socialize, but that I was often extremely emotional/depressed/and worried consistently that I was too 'anxious', making me, LOL, more anxious ect. Marijuana helped break that cycle, because of course I got anxious/had bad thoughts when I was high, but then, I was able to dismiss them more easily, because everyone gets anxious when they're high sometimes and I was just 'too high'-by inducing anxiety, it helped me feel normal and put things in perspective. I also spoke a lot to my bestfriend when we used to 'sesh' together almost every night-it felt great to decompress and let me feel safe enough to share a little about how I was feeling.

Reply to Merkwurdichliebe
YES, especially now in Canada with weed legalized, it represents a huge threat to big Pharma, especially Pharma for mental health-which, I agree with, I think is more 'placebo' than anything. I considered looking for an anti-anxiety medication; but I read a lot of research and not only are many addicting, they are also expensive, and need to be monitored closely by a mental health professional. I had 1) no money for expensive prescriptions 2) struggling to hide my deteriorating mental illness from my parents 3) have no family doctor let alone a psychiatrist who could prescribe such a medication let alone monitor its effects. I was also worried about side effects and how it would change my personality. I recommend trying weed for anyone who has severe anxiety/problems sleeping, before I would recommend prescription sleep medication.
Grre May 06, 2019 at 00:32 #286092
Reply to TheMadFool
Laughed a bit when I read that the James only understood Hegel when high, the first time I watched a documentary on Hegel I was pretty baked myself. But it didn't help with comprehension. Not sure WTF Hegel was on back in the day-but I could sure use some of it (joke).

Not sure about break throughs-perhaps we'll never know how much of philosophy, let alone art or science, are thanks to break throughs made while high. Its worthy to note that many of the best writers in the world/history are known alcoholics or ex-drug addicts...interesting correlation between substance abuse and long-term abstract conceptional thinking...I think that the majority of artists/philosophers experimented with drugs and alcohol because substance using attracts a certain kind of person, just like philosophy attracts a certain kind of person, thus the two overlap (ie. introspective tendencies, curiosity, mental illnesses/life issues/need to escape). This is a big mistake that people make when talking about marijuana 'causing' mental illness-it doesn't, marijuana attracts a kind of person already pre-disposed to or suffering the mental illnesses-in many ways, that's why people often seek out drugs, due to uncomfortable circumstances. I stopped smoking weed for more than a year-and i admit, it was one of my most productive self-improvement years of my life, but that's not because I stopped smoking weed, but because my life circumstances more generally, got better.
Shawn May 06, 2019 at 01:59 #286120
Reply to Grre

Yeah, your milage may vary. Set and setting also...

I'm surprised you have such a positive reaction to THC. Do you smoke pot rich in CBD? CBD binds to the 5-HTA1 receptor that mediates the stress response of an individual through the limbic system. It also is a potent antidepressant.

I tried even growing pot in my backyard. Some strains are rich in CBD, like ACDC or Harlequin or Cannatinic, which you can look up on Leafly.com. Give it a shot and see if it suites your needs.

Best regards.
Maw May 06, 2019 at 02:42 #286131
The first time I dropped acid I was basically like postmodernism is 100% accurate
Grre May 06, 2019 at 02:43 #286132
Reply to Wallows

Yes I've tried smoking high high CBD weed (I think it only had trace amounts of THC) but this was about two months ago when I was still smoking regular weed every day, so, didn't notice that much of a difference. I recently bought Indica oil (restock my own), I'm not sure what percentage of CBD it has in comparison to the 10 mg of ThC per ml but I will look into it. I've heard CBD helps with muscle cramps and have begun researching to what extent it could help with menstrual cramps-another big health issue that big Pharma fails to address that I feel marijuana could. Again, since it is legal now in my country I'm looking forward to a burst of innovations, research, and more reliable results in the next decade or so regarding its various benefits. Just felt like debunking some of the myths.

What failed with your growing venture, if you don't mind me asking? My best friend/roommate and his friends set up a substantial grow-op in our rental house basement all year and it was quite successful, a good 19-25 plants/clones and some good weed came of it. At one point every cubbord in our hallway was filled with plants HAHA.
Shawn May 06, 2019 at 02:53 #286135
Quoting Grre
What failed with your growing venture, if you don't mind me asking? My best friend/roommate and his friends set up a substantial grow-op in our rental house basement all year and it was quite successful, a good 19-25 plants/clones and some good weed came of it. At one point every cubbord in our hallway was filled with plants HAHA.


Well, initially I wanted to grow indoors. Cannabis (indica) likes that high altitude climate where it originated from Afghanistan and Iran if I'm not mistaken. Sativas (green crack, kinda bad name; but it's awesome) are my favorite, despite them being harder to grow and have lesser yields than indicas. Indicas are just heavy hitters and have the best yields. Anyway, long story short, I couldn't grow indoors like I wanted to with Ceramic Metal Halide lamps, which are twice as efficient as the normal HPS lamps.

So, I grew outdoors; but, my dad at the time and mom were pretty much against the whole venture and told me to stop growing it. The laws are strange in California, counties ultimately decide if growing cannabis outdoors is OK or not. I live in Ventura County where everyone has a stick up their ass. Los Angeles is much more liberal.

I intend to grow inside my home some 16 plants to supplement our income to pay off the mortgage and stuff. I'm still working on convincing my mom about the whole thing. There's also the issue of high electricity costs in my part of the world. I wanted to save enough to put a solar array on my roof.

Best regards.
TheMadFool May 06, 2019 at 02:58 #286137
Quoting Grre
Laughed a bit when I read that the James only understood Hegel when high, the first time I watched a documentary on Hegel I was pretty baked myself. But it didn't help with comprehension. Not sure WTF Hegel was on back in the day-but I could sure use some of it (joke).

Not sure about break throughs-perhaps we'll never know how much of philosophy, let alone art or science, are thanks to break throughs made while high. Its worthy to note that many of the best writers in the world/history are known alcoholics or ex-drug addicts...interesting correlation between substance abuse and long-term abstract conceptional thinking...I think that the majority of artists/philosophers experimented with drugs and alcohol because substance using attracts a certain kind of person, just like philosophy attracts a certain kind of person, thus the two overlap (ie. introspective tendencies, curiosity, mental illnesses/life issues/need to escape). This is a big mistake that people make when talking about marijuana 'causing' mental illness-it doesn't, marijuana attracts a kind of person already pre-disposed to or suffering the mental illnesses-in many ways, that's why people often seek out drugs, due to uncomfortable circumstances. I stopped smoking weed for more than a year-and i admit, it was one of my most productive self-improvement years of my life, but that's not because I stopped smoking weed, but because my life circumstances more generally, got better.


Perhaps there's some truth in drugs augmenting the mental faculty. I knew somebody who claimed it helped him be creative in problem solving and he was well-known as a very intelligent person - "tactical" would be the correct word here.
Pattern-chaser May 06, 2019 at 13:48 #286409
Quoting TheMadFool
I knew somebody who claimed it helped him be creative in problem solving and he was well-known as a very intelligent person


This is also my belief and experience. :up:
Christoffer May 07, 2019 at 13:10 #286802
Quoting Pattern-chaser
Please be careful about theorising what people with neurological conditions might experience - unless you have Parkinson's yourself? I have MS, and your 'explanation' seems garbled to me. How much do you know about the human CNS, and how it actually works?


I'm not theorizing in any scientific matter, how can you make that interpretation? I was speculating based on what I've read about cannabis research for Parkinson's and the observations I've made both on others and myself. It's speculation, a hypothesis, not a theory. And having CNS problems does not equal being an expert or telling others that they cannot think or speculate about such things. It's like saying people can't talk about cancer if they don't have it themselves. I would much rather break down the hypothetical ideas I had, in order to find out if they aren't valid because of... if they are incomplete because of... or if they are valid because of... If you have knowledge on this subject that counter-argues or help expand the ideas presented that would be much more welcomed.
Pattern-chaser May 07, 2019 at 13:34 #286808
Quoting Christoffer
having CNS problems does not equal being an expert or telling others that they cannot think or speculate about such things


Indeed. And not having CNS problems probably equates to being even less of an expert, don't you think? But I wouldn't dream of telling anyone "they cannot think or speculate about such things". Speculate all you like, as far as I'm concerned. :up:

Having said that, I'm here to tell you that the effects of CNS problems are often difficult to describe, or even to imagine, if you don't have such problems. I experience sensations for which there are no words. I.e. no words have been coined to describe these things, partly because so few of us (sufferers) need them, and partly because the effect of a partly-functioning/partly-damaged nerve gives rise to feelings that are ... indescribable. The explanation is easy. Living with it is less so. And, for most CNS conditions, there is no cure, which is a little depressing.
Christoffer May 07, 2019 at 14:39 #286825
Quoting Pattern-chaser
And not having CNS problems probably equates to being even less of an expert, don't you think?


A person without MS can still be more of an expert, otherwise, you wouldn't have experts in the medical field researching it. In my case, however, I wouldn't dare to question your knowledge in MS since having it would equal you knowing more both through experience but also the knowledge gained around it. :up:

Quoting Pattern-chaser
Having said that, I'm here to tell you that the effects of CNS problems are often difficult to describe, or even to imagine, if you don't have such problems. I experience sensations for which there are no words. I.e. no words have been coined to describe these things, partly because so few of us (sufferers) need them, and partly because the effect of a partly-functioning/partly-damaged nerve gives rise to feelings that are ... indescribable. The explanation is easy. Living with it is less so. And, for most CNS conditions, there is no cure, which is a little depressing.


And I wouldn't try to explain or argue about such experiences. What I referred to here specifically was an observation by my own CNS reaction to THC. And after having read about the cannabis research on Parkinson patients, I tried to induce why such improvements occur based on the observation of "lag" in intention and movement that I experienced. As you mentioned, it's hard to put into words those experiences you have subjectively within a framework of a hypothesis. I can only say that the CNS reaction to THC was very interesting and worth taking notice of. As long as I don't present anything as a theory of any scientific truth-claim I think it's worth mentioning this experience as I think even without having any problems myself I am, as well as everyone, interested in reaching progress with finding cures and solutions to things like this.
thedeadidea May 10, 2019 at 14:59 #287989
marijuana is interesting in a few ways if nothing else the historicity and arguments for it being banned is an interesting ethical/historical/political point.

There are some health benefits associated with marijuana but from what I understand most of it has to do with anxiety, cancer pain as well as well being, spontaneity and so on... Obviously, there are some who take it to say listen to music or socialize as well, which I think is a benefit.

But long term I think it isn't that healthy and even impairs cognitive function.

To be fair though this would depend on dosages and how one chooses to smoke it, vaping as opposed to a water pipe or bong is a sharp contrast.
Pattern-chaser May 11, 2019 at 15:02 #288428
Quoting thedeadidea
But long term I think it isn't that healthy and even impairs cognitive function.


But if you have MS, as I do...?
thedeadidea May 11, 2019 at 15:10 #288431
Quoting Pattern-chaser
But if you have MS, as I do...?


I will smoke with you and anyone that tells you that you shouldn't I will slap on your behalf

Pattern-chaser May 11, 2019 at 15:36 #288436
Shawn May 11, 2019 at 19:36 #288491
Quoting Pattern-chaser
But if you have MS, as I do...?


Sorry to hear @Pattern-chaser. My memory is somewhat fuzzy on the matter; but, I've heard pregnenolone helps with the myelin sheath damage also along with feelings of weakness. And, you have already read all about the benefits of THC in the condition, so I won't waste your time on that issue.

EDIT: Lithium is pretty darn neuroprotective also. Look into it if you have some spare time.

Cheers.
Pattern-chaser May 11, 2019 at 22:40 #288529
uncanni August 31, 2019 at 22:10 #322518
I hope that we can start this discussion up again, because I'm fascinated from the inside. Cannabis has truly opened the doors of perception in ways that make my present experiences using it unlike any others at previous times in my life. I'm 66, I'm a scholar who loves to read and write and I grow my own Cannabis--an exercise that has changed my entire life.

To cut to the chase: at this point in my life, I have excellent concentration and focus on scholarly activities when I vape Cannabis, or take it as tincture. It has completely changed the way I think and feel, producing a kind of elder revolution in my life which is most welcome and invigorating.

I've done a lot of research on Cannabis in the areas of cultivation, ethnohistory, making concentrates and Cannabis as medicine and spirit plant (instead of animal). It deepens my insights every day; it's the best medicine I can imagine.
Grre October 07, 2019 at 10:21 #338999
Reply to uncanni
Hey there!

I'm glad someone was interested in bumping this thread, as since my posts five months previously I've come across several relevant points,
-There has been a direct link between big Pharma paying off well-known medical professionals to denounce marijuana as harmful or of no benefit
-due to its history, much of the discrimination towards marijuana comes from entrenched racism and xenophobia, funny how drinking is an established "right" and cultural norm in much of Europe and North America, everyone drinks-its okay as long as you do it in moderation...yet marijuana, a drug from central Africa/Asia originally (or in some cases, like hallucinogenics in Indigenous cultures) has received historical persecution from eurocentric countries and cultures...hmmm

There is also an interesting link between the act of growing marijuana (substance farming/horticulture) and the spiritual connection people feel for the drug and its effects. It's like a reverting to some form of primitivism, something that in our highly industrialized and urban lifestyles has otherwise been taken from us...I think this is another thing that threatens big pharma and perhaps, our entire industrial system, imagine the people being able to grow their own drugs! Not have to pay inflated insurance, be subject to marketing ect. ect.

I'm also really glad to hear that cannabis has allowed you to better continue your research...I will always hold that mairjuana helped me in a time that I didn't have a lot of other options; at least not short term stop-gap solutions, I'm disappointed in modern philosophy for not taking more of a lead in drug use-especially philosophy of mind, but that is a symptom of a bigger flaw in academia in general I think
Pantagruel October 07, 2019 at 10:50 #339002
As long as it's the right strain with some coffee it puts my focus through the roof, reading and writing.
Pantagruel October 07, 2019 at 10:57 #339005
This article may be of interest, hippocampal neurogensis and memory:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/eci.12920
uncanni October 07, 2019 at 19:29 #339248
Quoting Grre
There is also an interesting link between the act of growing marijuana (substance farming/horticulture) and the spiritual connection people feel for the drug and its effects.


Hey Grre, I'm glad to know that there are others interested in this topic. I've been growing my own for a little over 3 years now, and that did indeed totally change my relationship to the the drug. I fell in love with the plants themselves, and I'm honored to be able to tend to them. Plus it's the best bud I ever had, considering how disrespectfully most folks treat their bud on the streets.

I belong to a Cannabis-growing forum where numerous people have written about getting off opoids and other prescription drugs with the help of weed. This must send the big pharma demons screaming and tearing their hair out. There is just too much that is right about Cannabis for the economy and the environment, but I understand that this is extremely threatening to so many. One more sad comment about the state of our culture in the usa.

When I was younger, I couldn't read when I was high, but I certainly can now; amazing how we grow into Cannabis--or how she envelops us...

uncanni October 07, 2019 at 19:36 #339250
Reply to Pantagruel I like to think of the temporary loss of short term memory as a funny kind of blip, because I almost always am able to pick up the thread where it was before, provided I'm conversing with someone who's as focused on the topic as I am. What they don't mention in the research is how much deeper one can analyze. As for much of the lab testing of the effects of Cannabis, chances are that I'd be forgetful, paranoid and anxious if I were using the drug in such an environment.

I will read the article!
BC October 09, 2019 at 02:53 #339772
Reply to Grre I haven't smoked cannabis, a lot, and I used to enjoy it. Somewhere along the line the way I reacted to it changed (or the pot I was smoking changed) and it stopped being amusing and became just a mild altered state that was kind of tedious. I bought some a few months ago in Colorado (edible and smokable) and have had the same reaction -- it was annoying more than amusing.

Maybe it is the set and/or setting; maybe on other occasions I had had more beer; maybe I don't find my internal musings as amusing as I used to -- don't know. I definitely didn't find concentration, memory, insight, perception, or anything else changed for the better. 50 years have passed since the first effective use, so maybe the old gray horse isn't what he used to be. Very disappointing.

On the other hand, I feel like my brain is working better now than it has for quite some time.
Grre October 09, 2019 at 09:16 #339827
Reply to Pantagruel
Fascinating article, I dont have a lot of history in biology/neuroscience, but I did get the gist, especially this part.
nfortunately, scientists have looked only at one side of the coin due to the inability or refusal to see beyond the current models of thinking. A paradigm is a set of assumptions, concepts, values and practices that constitute ways of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline

Seems once more that so-called "objective" science is not objective at all is it? Irritates me though, when cultural values-especially those based primarily on racism, withhold scientific progress that could improve people's quality of life. AD is a terrible disease.

Reply to uncanni
I watched my friend grow and tend cannabis all year, and it was a hobby that brought us all closer together. Plants and horticulture are not valued in our society-economically or culturally, probably because of the industrial food system and how we can just go to any grocery store at any time of night and get any type of food-packaged, pressed, and injected with chemicals-yum! But what can we do? This is our reality-"vegan" or organic food or whatever people wish to market it as, are just that much more expensive, and there is still that central and inherent denaturalization element-we do not produce what we make, instead we sell our labor/time-there is something isolating about the worker being isolated from this final product (as Marx pointed out).
People against cannabis often argue that cannabis produces ineffective/random results in different people...this is correct to an extent, but consider the method people use for cannabis, the majority of cannabis is consumed haphazardly by untrained amateurs through trial and error-and this cannabis is bought from random sources, untested, no growing procedures ect. Of course this produces a wide array of results...I am proud of my country (Canada) as we have just fully legalized weed, and now that removes the barriers for science...I'm hoping in the next decade I will see Canadian scientists testing, formulating, and marketing forms of cannabis directly synthesized for various issues, including sleeping, menstrual/muscle pain, mental illness ect. I want us to pioneer a better future, one that leaves big pharma behind.
On that note-since I moved to the United Kingdom, I've noticed my sleep quality has decreased...sometimes I take to taking over the counter sleeping pills, not what I want to do. I feel big pharma breathing down my throat, all I want is my weed...
I too learned to read better on cannabis, and write... A lot of the posts I wrote on this forum even, were written incredibly high. It helps take the anxiety I always feel with regards to writing, it feels softer; more sensual an activity, rather than a vigorous and fast-paced activity. Also, as an individual with autism-I suffer at times with hyper-focus, meaning I struggle to change the course of my focus or to pull my attention away from a thought or project, which is primarily why I struggle to sleep at night and induce a lot of my own anxiety...I love the distractibility weed brings.
Grre October 09, 2019 at 09:20 #339829
Reply to Bitter Crank
I think it does have a lot to do with mindset and environment. The mind is always in flux, is it not? So at times, some mind altering substances, such as alcohol or marijuana, will affect you in different ways and at different times in your life. It also depends a lot (and this is understated in literature but unanimous with every marijuana user I know) on the method...bongs, vaping, edibles ... all induce different responses and feelings. Vaping for me is kind of "tedious" like you mentioned, it just feels kind of muted and fuzzy-I much prefer the intensity of edibles or the sudden rush of bongs.
Deleted User October 09, 2019 at 09:22 #339830
Reply to Grre Anything that shifts perception - learning a new language, meditation, intense physical activity, participating in another culture, drugs, working with animals, being nature - can change assumptions we have about reality, identity, relations, selves, morals, perception, ontology. We take things for granted and we often don't know those things.
Grre October 09, 2019 at 09:26 #339832
Reply to Coben
I agree and love your point. Reality changing and subversive experiences are inherently important to better exploring and interacting with the world around us. Close minded and rigid thinking is, in my opinion, a great crime one can do oneself-our lives being meaningless and all, we must learn and experience all we can-we must always seek to overcome our subjective lives that we are so horribly tied to.
Shawn October 09, 2019 at 10:03 #339841
Pantagruel October 09, 2019 at 10:03 #339842
I think that reality as we experience it is a construct. We are experiencing an interevolution of mind and matter. Sometimes loosening the categories can be informative.
Shawn October 09, 2019 at 11:56 #339866
If you understand medical marijuana use as self medicating, then your range of experience reports is going to be off the rails given diversity.

Also the entourage effect is worth researching if you want to understand the whole reason why there are a gazillion strains out there of cannabis. It's MUCH more complex than THC only.

Lastly, Israel is on the forefront of medical marijuana research. O vey!


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entourage_effect
uncanni October 09, 2019 at 20:14 #339982
I posted this in a new topic on Doug Ruskoff's essay, "Cannabis: Stealth Goddess," and mostly got negative, nasty, and dismissive responses. WTF is wrong with so many people on this forum????


Quoting uncanni
There are some of us for whom Cannabis stimulates deeper insight into whatever subject one is investigating, a relaxed capacity for self-reflexivity, a more secure grounding in one's own sense of authenticity in a phony, hypocritical world, deeper relationships with others and with self, and most importantly, an ethics of refraining from harming others. Rushkoff claims that Cannabis raises conscience.

Here's a quotation:

Cannabis will give you the greatest gifts she has to offer--but she wants something in return. She wants your soul.... In short, Cannabis raises consciousness, creates a relationship, and--immediately after its peak--forces a self-evaluation. That's the step that can't be avoided.... [T]he higher you go, the more intense a self-examination will be demanded once you crest....
Paranoia is reserved for the elder, more experienced users--and at that, only the ones who both hear Cannabis's messages and repeatedly refuse to comply. Who in their right minds would change their lives to conform to what they were thinking when they were stoned?
To put it most simply, pot stops time.... The lean-forward of your directed, intentional life ceases. You are still doing what you are doing, but the goal no longer exists. The simplest effect of this time-stoppage is to bring focus to the task at hand. There is no goal; there is only process.... The act in this moment is all there is....
For those accustomed to avoiding life's more existential dilemmas by busying themselves with activity, this slipping out of sequential time can be enough to induce some serious psychic trauma. For them, to just be is hard enough. Especially if they've been avoiding who they are for a long while.
Kids are immune to this effect.... Adults, however, make their own momentum.... Stoned, however, time stops. The self-generated momentum ceases, and whateer that motion was helping to hide comes to the surface.... Pot is a drug that requires a level of respect, trepidation and devotion that most people aren't prepared or expecting to give her.

I'm interested in hearing from other members who use Cannabis to enhance their experiences or activities: reading, writing, philosophizing, relating to others, self-exploration and problem-solving, communing with nature, feeling physically/spiritually/emotionally better, etc.


Grre October 10, 2019 at 11:33 #340259
Reply to Wallows I should have checked this forum last night when I was high! Looks like a good video, unfortunately right now currently in a contract law lecture...not the time and place for great metaphysical concepts. Will watch though and update on my thoughts re: it.

Reply to Pantagruel
I like the way you summarized that. Perhaps I should frame it on my wall?

Reply to uncanni
I know exactly what you are talking about. The amount of parochial posts and threads I've read on here is concerning for what is supposed to be a community of critical thinkers...if I see one more post lambasting social media or how silly youth are now ect.. I posted a thread a while back (also in the field of philosophy of mind) discussing concepts of neurodiversity and I was met with just backlash of disbelief in basic learning disabilities...no academic discussion.
I will look into your essay you posted. I have a reading list a mile long and no time to do it; my days are overtaken by law law law, the only time I can allot to philosophy is in lecture; am not the type to be able to learn in a lecture hall so at least i can stay productive.
Pantagruel October 10, 2019 at 12:51 #340276
Reply to Grre
Another tidbit you might find cool. After doing a lot of reading on cybernetics and neural nets, something struck me. Neural nets are "trained up" by a trial and error (or self-correcting but same thing) process of matching specific inputs to desired outputs. What this implies is that there must be "hidden connections" existing between specific data in our cognitive fields. In other words, the dimensions of our perception and/or cognition are much more limited than the actual dimensions in which events occur.

So, in this context, you can really see how relaxing the constraints on cognition could potentially be very...enlightening.
Grre October 10, 2019 at 17:52 #340391
Reply to Pantagruel I 100% agree, from-both a theoretical and experience how that could be true. Love the tidbit.

Marijuana doesn't just "open" your mind in the cliche sense, I mean, it does, it lets you pay more attention to sensory input and all that-but for me at least, its a different way of operating my mind; it slows it down, but it also speeds it up; it lets me work through things in a different manner/light, especially when I really put my head to it (like a creative high brainstorming session)..in this way I think marijuana and other psychedelics can be especially effective in trauma therapy and working with other forms of neurodiversity; like with my autism. It slows my mind down enough to let me compute certain things (like enjoy watching television or youtube channels more)--and it lets you examine trauma/circumstances/"reality" in a different light, that, when it fades away, you can still remember and reflect on that perception and then work on replacing your current perception with your new one.

Idk i'm just rambling here. but remember DRUGS R BAD and CAUSE SCHIZOPHRENIA duh BAD BAD BAD totally not the illicit nature of drugs...or the criminalization/stigma factor...or the lack of research...or the cause and effect---i was already fucking depressed and anxious before i took drugs...it didn't "heighten" my mental illness; and there's no way to prove that my mental illnesses wouldn't have progressed "worse" if I hadn't smoked during that time..sorry i just feel big pharma smirking right now...
uncanni October 10, 2019 at 22:34 #340517
Quoting Pantagruel
This article may be of interest, hippocampal neurogensis and memory:


I looked at it, but I see a lot of that research as, well, quite partial. Why on earth test THC on animals? This makes no sense to me. Further, there is a lot of research out there on how Cannabis (not an isolated cananbinoid or a synthetic version of THC, but rather the whole plant and all the chemicals in synergy, helps with ADHD. A few of my students say Cannabis tincture helps them to focus and concentrate better.

It's quite mysterious how it can have such different effects on different people. But I see that as part of the nature of Cannabis. How I feel using it now is nothing like what I felt in the 1970s.

Andrew Furr October 11, 2019 at 17:14 #340780
Marijuana can have various affects on cognition, even within one person. From my experience, it depends on the nature of one's interest and their prior understanding of the topic.

To begin, it acts as a stimulus, increasing heart rate and things like that, so its not surprising that many thoughts can start flying across one's mind. It can bring you into a new space regarding an old problem, or maybe get you interested in something that was never quite your cup of tea. Studies on increased heart rate have findings along the line of this: someone is on a stable bridge during a conversation will not have as much interest in the person they are speaking to as someone that has a conversation on a bridge that is dangerous. This is because the increased heart rate is confused as arousal in the other person. Tying this in, one's physiological arousal can lead them to thinking that what they are saying is more profound than it actually is. So, when experiencing something new for the first time while high, someone may find this thing exceedingly interesting. The down fall would be a decreased arousal experience the next time someone engages in the same activity. I've had this issue with studying a topic that I went to class stoned for. In this way, if someone is not stoned all the time, or at least in the same state of mind that they were when they came across the topic, it can have negative effects on understanding. This is also confirmed in psychological studies, which note that memory is influenced by things such as mental state or location. For example, studies show that students do better on tests if the exam is in the same room that they learned the information, opposed to a different room.

This all being said, it looks like marijuana may not be good for learning, even though it can increase attention for periods of time. Unless, one stays stoned all the time, but this leads to increased degradation in areas of the brain as well, and should be avoided for physiological and psychological reasons, of course unless the marijuana is to assist some disorder. I believe it has wonderful medical advantages for many, but to use it irresponsibly can cause ADHD like symptoms, according to some studies, in those that have never displayed them previously. So it has its pros and cons like everything else.

Though marijuana may seem like a good way to get into something new, I personally believe it is more efficient to use it to enhance something familiar. Once something, like a paper or song for example, is composed and edited, smoking marijuana before a final viewing could really open up the perspective and allow for a "break through." It may allow for something new to be seem due to a higher analysis, propagated by increased physiological attention processing. Furthermore, the hallucinogenic like effects of marijuana give it an edge that you will not experience with cocaine or caffeine intake, but is not as over bearing as something like mushrooms or LSD (which are more useful for self and relational aspect recognition, often beyond what language can accomplish). After understanding the fundamentals of some theory well, which is arguably much easier to do and remember while sober, marijuana can be used to discover new variables and functional possibilities. It loosens the constraint on what is being processed and allows for a improvisation that can lead to wonderful and novel results.

For example, learning how to play the piano well requires discipline and practice. One must follow the established rules to learn where the keys are and how the scales go; until one becomes nearly perfect and can perform them without thinking. But these scales are not interesting to listen to! Someone must come up with new things, build upon these scales, and combine them in new ways in order to create something beautiful. But you cannot begin with randomness. One must control themselves in constraints, until they know well enough how to perform without them. I find this to be an analogy with marijuana. Get good at something a familiarize yourself with it sober, so that it can reliably be retained and practiced in a stable mental situation that does not require any additional additives to achieve. Once that is accomplished, I believe marijuana can definitely be used to reach new heights.

I apologize for not having references for the studies I claim about, but I assure you they are out there! I am open to any response!
uncanni October 13, 2019 at 09:35 #341532
Quoting Andrew Furr
Unless, one stays stoned all the time, but this leads to increased degradation in areas of the brain as well, and should be avoided for physiological and psychological reasons


I never heard before that Cannabis degrades the brain.
Andrew Furr October 13, 2019 at 09:53 #341535
Reply to uncanni Yeah, that was very general and poorly worded on my part, I apologize. What some studies have found is that THC can have negative impacts on the hippocampus, which can possibly lead to problems with long-term memory. This doesn't seem to happen when one smokes only occasionally, but having the CB1 receptors active for too long can cause problems, as well as feelings of fear and anxiety, instead of euphoria. Also, heavy THC use appears to cause the loss of neurons to increase. Around the mid-twenties, it is said that we lose multiple thousands of neurons per day as an effect of aging, and THC is thought to increase the speed of this process. So it may begin to affect cognitive ability and mental function is used to regularly. CBD acts differently, but that's another story. These affects are thought to happen because heavy marijuana use inhibits the release of amino acids and monoamine neurotransmitters in the brain.
So, all in all, it seems that it can cause effects on the brain that are similar to that of aging, or rather, increase the speed at which these negative effects begin to have an impact. So, "brain degradation" sounds a little intense, but in a sense, it does happen.
On a side note, I am not against marijuana in any way and have enjoyed it on many occasions in my life. I just support it in moderation, pretty much like anything else.
I hope this helped make the comment more clear, and I look forward to any response!
uncanni October 13, 2019 at 13:11 #341579
Reply to Andrew Furr I'll have to look into that, although I take a lot of the online information about Cannabis with a grain of salt, or less. There's a shit ton of shit information about Cannabis on the internet. There are a few medical researchers whose articles and books are trustworthy--Ethan Russo is one I trust. According to him, the benefits of THC and all other Cannabis chemicals on the Endocannabinoid System are not to be scoffed at.

That being said, however, of all the many things that impact the brain negatively--alcohol, cigarettes, air pollution, stress, poor diet, etc.--I'll stick with Cannabis.
Andrew Furr October 13, 2019 at 13:26 #341584
Reply to uncanni Yeah, there is definitely a lot of conflicting information out there. I also think that it goes by a person to person basis, where someone effects may be more prevalent depending on who was sampled. Not to mention, confounding factors that may have played a role more dominantly than cannabis itself. It for sure needs more testing. The fact that there is so much conflicting evidence points towards the negative effects not being nearly as bad as other things, such as alcohol, which we clearly understand as bad for you. At least I think so, whatever that is worth.

I also definitely think the obvious positive effects for many outweigh the potential negative side effects in most cases, but ignoring any side of a scientific argument can be dangerous unless it is clearly ridiculous.
Andrew Furr October 13, 2019 at 14:01 #341592
Reply to pagliacci other than mentioning how it affected my interest in a topic in my first comment, the comments have nothing to do with my consumption of any drug. They’re just relaying findings in scientific studies. Whether these studies are conclusive or are to be refuted it yet to be found. Of course, people report more positive results from marijuana use, and ima sure that there are more benefits that negatives. But to ignore potential negative findings is just as ignorant as the people who ignore the positive ones and say marijuana is dangerous. I’m not saying it is bad, but many things have pros and cons, and it’s something we have to accept. It surely is safe relative to almost all other recreational drugs, and I advocate it’s legalization and use. But the facts that it may effect memory is outside of my wishes and experiences for what it does. I’m more than open, and actually hoping, to the fact that these findings may be refuted or based on poor studies/ bad evidence. But they’re still worth paying attention to if one wishes to completely understand the effects of some substance on brain function
Shawn October 13, 2019 at 15:02 #341605
Reply to pagliacci

You still need that money you asked from me in PM, herr doktor?
Andrew Furr October 13, 2019 at 16:52 #341620
Reply to pagliacci Well, marijuana originally helped me with depression and anger. I'd get very angry with some event and smoking always allowed me to think about the situation in a way that wasn't so defensive and self-centered. It helped me imagine different perspectives and outcomes. I ultimately solved this issue through other means, but cannabis use certainly helped me relax and ponder the issue while young.

These days, I use it more recreationally than medicinally. When I have been playing my drum set for while and find myself repeating the same beats over and over, I like to take a nice hit. It really puts me in a different place and I can connect more with what I'm trying to accomplish. I don't know exactly what place it put me in. I wouldn't say it makes me more creative, per se, but rather opens up and changes the way that I play. I guess that could be interpreted as creativity, but I'd search for a more clear definition before subscribing to that. Also, when writing a paper and forming an argument, I like to smoke before I review the paper. Not for grammar or anything, though it does give me an eagle eye for those kind of things, at least the first time I smoke that day. (Successive smoking in one day tends to just make me tired and my thoughts can't get organized, but the first go-round is always up=lifting and productive). It really helps me think of counter-examples to my argument that may have not been present when writing. So, it augments my ability to think outside of the box.

As for your claims about humans not understanding one another; I agree. There is a degree of empathy that can be expressed. And there have been cases where one may be able to explain a problem to someone that that person can't seem to understand about themselves. I believe introspection is really good for looking into oneself and attempting to find a pattern that one may call a self, but sometimes an outside view can really provide insight into how one relates to the world that they are in. And that is the self, in my opinion; a relation to others in the world. (that debate is thrilling as well!). But, there is something that it is like to be me, or for anyone, that cannot be experienced by anything else and which I have a special right to. There are aspects of being me that are for me alone and that will not be comprehended by anyone else, at least with the level of connection now shared in the world. Some neuro scientists and philosopher claim that one day we will bridge this gap, but I am skeptical. There seems to be something, in principle, that it is like to be me that no amount of brain scanning could possibly expand on. But this sounds a lot like dualism, which I do not subscribe to. Its just a perspective that another simply cannot take. Its part of being an individual.

This strong sense of individuality; this, "you cannot understand me" leads to a lot of issues I think. Though, it seems to be our natural state of mind. We do not function like an ant hill does. Some even argue that anthills are one super organism, while we clearly have boundaries. We communicate well, but language has its boundaries. Many of our thoughts are not articulated in language, but may appear as images, or merely feelings that have more meaning than words can so far describe. Its all far more complicated than anything I claim to be able to expand on.

And for existential pains, I think it goes both ways. It can be worse or better while under the influence. It depends on many things, such as setting, openess to other views and the people who are in your life. Drug use, mainly psychedelics and marijuana, are potentiating. That create a potential for great thoughts and realization, or anxiety and despair. And yes, I think that even un-laced weed can provide with despair. Its all about how and when one uses the substance. If one is thinking really hard about not having a job and gets stoned, one may either fret even harder because they are smoking instead of going out a doing something about it, or they may re conceptualize the issue and immediately get to work. It depends on the person and the circumstances. Cannabis can provide the potential "energy" but its up to the person to use it wisely.
Chris Hughes November 12, 2019 at 14:20 #351576
Reply to Grre
This is a good discussion! I find being stoned breaks me out of my (mild) autistic bubble. Not that I'm diagnosed - I'm self-diagnosed and self-medicating. (Ending prohibition is a long way off here in the UK.) Medicinal use is considered good, unlike that bad old recreational use. Heres the thing, though: recreational use is medicinal. It can cure, for instance, existential nausea. Have you read Sartre’s Nausea? Me neither. But I know what I think he means: Stuff, the world, it makes you sick. Have a toke - it helps you tick. It helps me think - I think. Half of what I've written on this forum, I've written stoned.
Grre November 19, 2019 at 15:11 #354173
Reply to Chris Hughes
Big fan of Sartre, lot's of people participating in this discussion probably are.

Interesting that you identify as mildly autistic-I too, kind of self-diagnose myself as that, and people close to me have agreed. Am currently working my way through the long public channels to get a proper diagnosis, could use the extra support in post secondary ect. also for my own peace of mind.
Chris Hughes November 19, 2019 at 15:47 #354176
Reply to Grre
Not sure diagnosis helps (unless you're a parent of a severely autistic child needing serious help). Peace of mind can come from acceptance, I'd say. I've found I can now reach out from my bubble. Have fun!
Shawn November 20, 2019 at 06:30 #354418
On a not entirely different note, I've been watching the NASA meltdown in regards to Elon Musk taking a puff of marijuana on a dumb Joe Rogan podcast, and as a result of this, he had to apologize to NASA and SpaceX employees about the excursion.

It's really paradoxical that for open-minded people who want to explore space, to be so militant against a harmless mind-expanding compound. I suppose the people at NASA and engineers still think it's the 50's or something??

EDIT: And, he didn't even inhale!
Shawn November 20, 2019 at 23:50 #354675
Reply to Harry Hindu

Crazy shitpost maaan.
Eee November 20, 2019 at 23:57 #354676
Quoting Wallows
It's really paradoxical that for open-minded people who want to explore space, to be so militant against a harmless mind-expanding compound. I suppose the people at NASA and engineers still think it's the 50's or something??


That's a good point. How many people have been high when watching 2001? And consider the term psychonauts. Obviously one should be careful, but at the same time Neil Armstrong (as a recent movie makes vivid) was not careful. And philosophy is dangerous in the same way drugs and space exploration are. Anyone who wanders away from Everyone runs a risk. We call them heroes or fools depending on their success or failure as we interpret it.

Elon was/is also getting a piece of Grimes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9SGYBHY0qs

He is doing something right.
Shawn November 21, 2019 at 00:18 #354684
Quoting Eee
That's a good point. How many people have been high when watching 2001? And consider the term psychonauts.


That's a misunderstanding of the film. Sure it was released in the 60's, and you had the audience at the time either high or inebriated in some sense. But, according to what I've seen in regards to commentary about the film by Spielberg, that wasn't the intended message.
Eee November 21, 2019 at 00:20 #354687
Quoting Wallows
That's a misunderstanding of the film. Sure it was released in the 60's, and you had the audience at the time either high or inebriated in some sense. But, according to what I've seen in regards to commentary about the film by Spielberg, that wasn't the intended message.


It's Kubrick's film. But my point wasn't about any message of the film but simply to connect space exploration with the exploration of rare mental states. Outer space and inner space. I don't use drugs much these days, but I did when I was younger. (Added for context.)
Shawn November 21, 2019 at 00:22 #354689
Quoting Eee
It's Kubrick's film. But my point wasn't about any message of the film but simply to connect space exploration with the exploration of rare mental states. Outer space and inner space.


Kubrick and Spielberg were the closest of friends, and since Kubrick is dead, I'm going to take Spielberg's view on the matter that the film wasn't all about altered states. In fact, the protagonist of the film being HAL, couldn't really be puffing on marijuana, sipping on mescaline, or taking LSD, whether he/she/it liked it or not.
Eee November 21, 2019 at 00:25 #354691
Reply to Wallows
Right. Not saying it was about altered states. I'm saying the notion of exploration is involved in both space travel and in altered states of mind.

[quote=Wiki]
After reading Osmond's paper, Huxley sent him a letter on Thursday, 10 April 1952, expressing interest in the research and putting himself forward as an experimental subject. His letter explained his motivations as being rooted in an idea that the brain is a reducing valve that restricts consciousness and hoping mescaline might help access a greater degree of awareness (an idea he later included in the book).[19] Reflecting on his stated motivations, Woodcock wrote that Huxley had realised that the ways to enlightenment were many, including prayer and meditation. He hoped drugs might also break down the barriers of the ego, and both draw him closer to spiritual enlightenment and satisfy his quest as a seeker of knowledge.[20]
[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doors_of_Perception

Explorers run risks, often with the hope of bringing something home to the tribe.
Shawn November 21, 2019 at 00:27 #354693
Quoting Eee
Explorers run risks, often with the hope of bringing something home to the tribe.


Yeah, them meeting with the monolith at the start of the film must have been quite an experience, eh?
User image
Grre November 21, 2019 at 11:33 #354821
Reply to Wallows
I think a lot of the legal repercussions of marijuana are still related in some moralistic fad-partly due to control, and partly due to people's sheer fear. Also a bit of racism and classism...(hatred of the poor black people often stereotyped of using the drug). The American government has always been a regressive and moralistic cess post of control, prohibition, sexual morality rooted in judeo-christianity ect. all just about control. The bran enjoys various washes of hormones, whether through sex, drugs, or alcohol, and these are potentially destabilizing-not just individually, but politically (look at the counter-culture of the 60s ect).
Timothy Leary was sentenced to thirty years in jail for marijuana possession (back in the 50s) before his appeal overturned the Marijuana Act of Texas 1937.
Shawn November 21, 2019 at 18:26 #354912
Quoting Grre
The American government has always been a regressive and moralistic cess post of control, prohibition, sexual morality rooted in judeo-christianity ect. all just about control.


Yep, people or governments will get high on whatever they choose... Be it control (profound power trips) or something else.
Eee November 22, 2019 at 07:22 #355169
Quoting Wallows
Yeah, them meeting with the monolith at the start of the film must have been quite an experience, eh?


Indeed! The madness of the human unleashed...
ovdtogt November 22, 2019 at 08:00 #355175
All my Philosophical thoughts have been generated by the consumption of cannabis. When high I go on a Twitter spree and has inspired me to start a Facebook page called the Religious Atheist. My twitter handle is the selfconsconscious ape.I am an atheist but 'High' I become a religious fanatic very much inspired by Buddhism and the biblical Genesis.
ovdtogt November 22, 2019 at 08:05 #355178
I think my brain under the influence of cannabis would make a great research subject. They would be able to see which parts of the brain are active during profound religiosity and creative thinking.
Grre November 22, 2019 at 14:41 #355270
I'm fascinated that this post has generated so much interest; and if anyone is curious in continuing this topic, I have a new question to pose for discussion for the topic of marijuana and philosophy;
It seems to be a consensus that marijuana plays some role in imaginative, abstract thinking and can be used spiritually or as a mental healing mechanism...whether or not it actually leads to concrete philosophy/academic work is disputed, but its role via this imagination/relaxation/opening consciousness, seems to be a general tool to those inclined to philosophy...so where is the modern philosophical thought and theory on this topic? There has been some work done on hallucinogens to be fair, but I haven't seen much of a body of academic and philosophical work on marijuana, beyond some psychiatrical reports; with the typical label that marijuana can cause schizophrenia (something largely disputed in other studies, but nonetheless in Canada, forced to be printed on all marijuana sold).
ovdtogt November 22, 2019 at 14:58 #355275
Reply to Grre My creative thinking is very much influenced by cannabis. Thankfully the consumption of which is tolerated in the Netherlands. I think it will take some time before it becomes part of academic or scientific research. There is still too much of a taboo on getting 'high'. And as I have stated above, I'd love to be a test subject. I think my THC infected brain could offer a great insight in how the creative/religious brain functions. I leave all my Tweets and Facebook' ramblings for posterity. One day it might become a treasure trove of information.
TheMadFool November 23, 2019 at 17:36 #355585
Quoting Grre
"what if nothing is real bro".


Your example is a good one and captures both the nature of the thoughts that flit across the minds of drug bugs and also how they're a caricature of what philosophy is.

After all "nothing" and "real" do feature in serious philosophy e.g. ex nihilo nihil fit and reality is a philosophical subject in its own right. In fact if one considers how much progress has been made in these topics I think philosophers, even great ones, have barely managed to drop the "bro" from the question "what if nothing is real bro?"

Perhaps it's not like I put it. Druggies aren't caricatures of real philosophers and their thoughts are serious philosophical issues that have boggled the minds of entire generations of great thinkers. However it must be noted that druggies needed assistance to reach what is to a philosopher just a routine. We can take this the other way of course; that philosophers are those with an abnormal mind - they talk like drug addicts.

To say that such thoughts as emanate from the junkie is cliched may be true but only in terms of being oft repeated and not in the sense of uninteresting.

Shawn November 25, 2019 at 04:39 #356065
A wallowsome issue... But progress in being made in Mexico and the US with the MORE Act.

Yay!
Deleted User November 25, 2019 at 04:52 #356070
Quoting TheMadFool
In fact if one considers how much progress has been made in these topics I think philosophers, even great ones, have barely managed to drop the "bro" from the question "what if nothing is real bro?"


Haha. Nicely turned.

Shawn November 25, 2019 at 05:02 #356075
@ArguingWAristotleTiff, what are your thoughts about the MORE Act? Progress or should we go all out and demand legalization instead of decriminalization?

Grre November 25, 2019 at 10:17 #356145
In fact if one considers how much progress has been made in these topics I think philosophers, even great ones, have barely managed to drop the "bro" from the question "what if nothing is real bro?"

You're probably right. Perhaps this connection between drugs and this frame of mindset is the inherent thing that needs to be explored then.
Grre November 25, 2019 at 10:30 #356147
Reply to Wallows

"Right now, federally, marijuana is a highly restricted Schedule 1 substance, making research on the drug hard to conduct even as its use spreads widely and law enforcement efforts become ever more difficult to justify. If the bill does becomes law—and that’s a big if—cannabis would be reclassified as unrestricted and people who’ve been charged or convicted of certain marijuana-related crimes as of the act’s passage would not face criminal penalties and could have their records expunged."

I think theres an important difference between decriminalization and legalization. Canada (my country) legalized weed, largely because the government needed the revenue such a large legal market would produce (the illegal marijuana trade was considered worth something upwards of 2billion dollars). Legalization eschews economic opportunism, while decriminalizing focuses on 1) overturning wrongful sentencing for possession 2) research; both of which in my opinion, are more important than big $$. Proud of the United States for this.

Shawn November 25, 2019 at 10:34 #356148
Quoting Grre
Proud of the United States for this.


Yeah, I suppose leave it to the States to further the cause if people want it legalized. Ultimately I want to drive to my local Shell station where I buy my cigs and instead substitute that with some high CBD cigarettes.

Unfortunately I can't really tolerate THC. Paranoia and all that...
Grre November 25, 2019 at 10:51 #356149
Reply to Wallows
Have tried CBD, will probably will return to it at sometime in the future. Funny how you can drive to your local Shell station and buy cigarettes (directly linked to death and every other bad physical health effect) or any number of over the counter medications which have unpleasant side effects or addictive potential (diphydramine, paracetamol, pseduophederine) ect. ect. or in the United States and the UK alcohol! Which is also directly linked to addiction and death ect. but still no CBD or THC which still, have not been shown to have any long term isolated health effects....
Grre November 25, 2019 at 10:53 #356150
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco

Super long Wikipedia page if anyone is interested for some reading...I'm in a boring public law review lecture right now; teaching us how to write a discussion question...so am enjoying the good reading material.
Shawn November 25, 2019 at 11:00 #356154
Reply to Grre

There are so many studies out there and conflicting interests in regards to THC effects in the brain. Now, I do think that chronic smokers of cannabis suffer from avolition and decreased productivity, in otherwise healthy adults. I also do believe that people with a genetic predisposition towards psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and psychotic disorders should not be puffing on marijuana, as there's something like a 3-fold jump in developing said disorders. Strangely enough I've also read reports about cognitive enhancing effects of small doses of THC on cognitive function in already schizophrenics.

As a matter of authority at the moment Israel is pretty much the authority on cannabis science.

What do you think?
Grre November 25, 2019 at 11:13 #356158
Reply to Wallows
I'm no scientist in any form. Merely someone with some time on my hands and a laptop and an enjoyment for random academic reading.

I think that cannabis can certainly affect "productivity" and generally result in some disorganization in areas of life...like any substance with temporary effects, it does effect behaviour during that time and after. But in no way is that a comparable longterm health effect. A case could be made that having a romantic partner also affects "productivity" ect.
I think that genetic predispositions to schizo diseases and their relation to psychiatric effects of marijuana is an interesting correlation. I read somewhere that while there is some evidence that marijuana can trigger these predispositions, I also read in a conflicting study that there is a cause and effect reversal, people already suffering from subconscious/underlying/untreated effects of psychiatric illnesses, schizophrenia, depression etc. are just that much more likely to use marijuana, therefore the health effects exist prior to any smoking of marijuana, and therefore marijuana can be considered only minimally impactful, if it all, and no effects diverging independently from cannabis use.

From personal experience? I have gone through periods of depression and anxiety that really have no correlation with my personal cannabis use at the time, exempting the fact that I generally use cannabis more when I am suffering from extreme anxiety or depression.
Do I notice any long term effects that I can isolate as solely from marijuana? No. Depression and anxiety has at times effected my focus, my ability to read, eat, sleep, socialize appropriately ect.
Shawn November 25, 2019 at 11:25 #356161
Reply to Grre

Yeah... So, much disinformation has been legitimized by funding from the government that you always have to read the conflict of interest stub at the end of each paper.

Anandamide, known in Hindu scripture or deriving from it as the molecule of bliss makes otherwise motivated and go-getters somewhat apathetic, although I think the scientific cause isn't related to the complex effects on CB1 receptors in the VTA and striatum which colocalize with the dopamine reward pathways.

My main focus in college was trying to deal with my ADHD tendencies, and it's pretty much an ideal non-tolerance forming drug for this purpose.

You might want to check out the synergistic effects of caffeine and THC, which is amazing! God I wish I was back in college and didn't self destruct by altering my neurochemistry too much...
Shawn November 25, 2019 at 11:33 #356163
Quoting Grre
From personal experience? I have gone through periods of depression and anxiety that really have no correlation with my personal cannabis use at the time, exempting the fact that I generally use cannabis more when I am suffering from extreme anxiety or depression.


You should really look into cannabidiol for this purpose. The research is really solid, specifically for anxiety and depression. Also, lavender extract is potent stuff. I believe diffusing it into the air is more satisfying and enhances effectiveness. Otherwise, Silexan in a German-made formulation of lavender extract that has been put through testing mostly for anxiety and depression.

Now I wallow to sleep though my body keeps on telling me that night is day and day is night. Ahh.
Grre November 26, 2019 at 17:42 #356542
Reply to Wallows

You might want to check out the synergistic effects of caffeine and THC, which is amazing! God I wish I was back in college and didn't self destruct by altering my neurochemistry too much...


I have the opposite of ADHD in many regards, not really having any issue focusing so much as only motivation when I go through my periods of severe depression/anxiety...I do enjoy getting high to do 'fun' research (ie. not research for a marked paper but rather for my own projects/interest). All summer I dealt with my anxiety at having to move countries and end a long term relationship quite productively, that is getting insanely high via cannabis oil (legal in my country) and surfing the web while my parents watched TV. I had never been able to sit and really watch TV before-at least enjoy it in the same way. Marijuana not helped me sleep, eat, and 'relax' (to some degree). I have ASD so...not sure about the links between cannabis use and autism, but I'd be interested in seeing some studies.

Shawn November 26, 2019 at 21:26 #356591
Reply to Grre

Given my limited understanding of THC and autism, I do know that CBD and autism go wonderfully well together.

The takeaway message of autism is that (again take this with a grain of salt), the brain of people with autism is overactive due to some kind of excess in glutamate activity. CBD is often used by parents to manage autistic tendencies. I can provide you with a good Google search query to expand your knowledge.

Try: (Cannabidiol and autism "ncbi")

Low power study with 18 participants:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6834767/
EnPassant November 26, 2019 at 21:45 #356594
Marijuana can cause great psychic damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZEivOBQ6nc
Grre November 27, 2019 at 09:38 #356702
Reply to Wallows Interesting, I appreciate you linking this to me. Maybe I'll run my own study once I get back to Canada-start macrodosing daily with CBD tablets vs. the daily/THC high ... I've smoked CBD weed before; mainly because it doesn't get you high means I could still drive, but I dont recall feeling much. Then again it was only once or twice. I assume its potency is more apparent over continued and regular use.
Shawn November 28, 2019 at 01:06 #356874
Reply to Grre

Cool. I wouldn't necessarily try and obtain CBD from smoking it, although the bioavailability of CBD is much higher that route, yet with a shorter half life.

There are plenty of CBD oils available for personal use.

Anyway, good luck!

:grin:
Lif3r November 28, 2019 at 06:47 #356950
I smoke a lot of weed. Not your grandmas weed either. Seriously powerful weed. Sometimes all day. Have been for years. It does make me think more. Sometimes too much.
ArguingWAristotleTiff November 28, 2019 at 13:53 #357027
Quoting Wallows
what are your thoughts about the MORE Act? Progress or should we go all out and demand legalization instead of decriminalization?


My first point in choosing between legalization and decriminalization of Cannabis is the proof of science that Cannabis is a healthy alternative to big phama's options for pain relief. A couple of society hurdles have still to be cleared to 1) remove the stigma of fallacies of the past regarding the person consuming Cannabis 2) the medical community that graduated before the year 2000 AND has not been educated since on Cannabis have no schooling that the Endocannabinoid system exists in every living mammal and it's receptor system.

One of the main problems in regards to the scientific research Cannabis is that the Cannabis the Government was using in any quasi trials were using a Cannabis with less than 3% THC and unknown % CBD. The consumption of the government Cannabis at that % is ineffective in inducing any psychoactive effect and since the CBD % was unknown, they the government really don't know the positive or negative effects of either.

My second point follows the first in that the decriminalization of Cannabis would still restrict research on a Federal level which will keep Medical Research at any University, University based medical center and the Veterans adminstration from performing the studies needed to consider Cannabis as a viable option for patients.

My third point in regards to decriminalization of Cannabis is that it still encourages a black market for the sale of Cannabis, even if it is considered an infraction to posses Cannabis. The laws now vary widely from State to state and it is truly unfair to put the onus on the Police Officer or the patient who are citizens trying to navigate a law during a traffic stop.

My fourth point is that the decriminalization of Cannabis does not necessarily/automatically mean expongrment of citizens records who have criminal charges involving a non-violent Cannabis conviction. The citizens caught up in this final point deserve to have their personal rights restored: their ability to vote and carry a firearm.

My feelings are that decriminalization of Cannabis does not go far enough to change our laws, society stigmas and the limiting factors that Cannabis is not yet considered to have any medicinal value.

Does that mean I am demanding full legalization?
I do support full legalization with a degree of regulation, age restrictions and with the conditions to restore nonviolent convicted citizens rights.
Shawn November 29, 2019 at 10:51 #357200
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

I don't really have anything to add. Thanks.
ovdtogt November 29, 2019 at 14:44 #357262
Listened to an interesting Podcast recently where the speaker explained that Nixon's 'war' on cannabis was initiated to counter-act the flower power movement which he believed was very much inspired by the use of Cannabis. This movement was also very much opposed to the Vietnam war (burned their draft bills etc...) In essence he viewed pot smokers as very anti-authoritarian and undermining the hierarchical power structure.
Grre November 29, 2019 at 15:37 #357278
Reply to ovdtogt

Yes sounds about right. Any dictatorship that relies upon the servility, docility, and imperative obedience of its people will limit access to potentially destabilizing substances, or substances/activities that they feel misrepresent the values that underpin the said dictatorship.
ovdtogt November 29, 2019 at 15:49 #357283
Reply to Grre Corporate Fascism demands obedient brain-washed consumer/slaves.
arkanon December 24, 2019 at 11:46 #365699
This is an extremely difficult point to argue, especially given that it'll vary from person to person. Been smoking for going on 5 years now (wow, that's weird to say). I have a degree, a professional office job, and a semi-professional hobby (national level bodybuilder). I smoke only top shelf buds that come directly from a licensed collective. I have no problems at all, except for occasional mental block when trying to recall a word or name, which may not even be related. I smoke and relax in the evenings after I get home from work and the gym. Biggest side effect I've noticed is my short term memory. It's horrendous. I struggle to find the right words, and I also get a wee bit confused if the subject is deep in any way. I makes me see the world like if I was a kid again. I discover tastes in food I no longer notice, sounds and beauty in music that I would have missed, and my mind open itself to new concepts and realities. It makes me see the world on a different angle, thus making "problems" seems almost irrelevant, and life more simple in it's complexity.
On the other hand, it's fucking incredible for my chronic pain (it was the reason I got medical marijuana card in san diego and started smoking), and it's definitely kept me going, as it's more helpful than any medication I've been given by doctors.
iceblink luck December 26, 2019 at 05:32 #366183
i'm high right now so i can authoritatively say that being high is the lived experience of the process of phenomenological reduction, and the drawing-closer-to-oneself of 'pure' consciousness, as described by husserl. no i will not elaborate.
Grre January 13, 2020 at 21:41 #371230
Reply to arkanon
Big pharma would like you to think that medical marijuana is not a good choice for chronic pain. It decentralizes the power they have, especially in countries like America, you can grow it on your own, experiment on your own ect. Imagine that. Power over our bodies and what we put into them back in the hands of the people, no tax money or fees to be made. The medical industry is screaming.

I don't think its that difficult a point to be made if you look at the socio-historical patterns, such as the criminalization of minority groups (ie.the hyper imprisonment rate of Blacks), the history of White America and their spite for anything deemed not White-including the poor...statistics show that people of all demographic use and smoke marijuanaa, but it is particularly associated with a particular type of person. There is a stigma that isn't attached to other things, such as drinking, which can be seen as an activity of all races and classes (even though it is arguably more harmful).
The defamation of marijuana across history and to contemporary times comes from sheer moralism, nothing else. Moralism as constructed to protect power structures. Not only the race thing (though that is a BIG thing in countries such as the United States), but due to the way it alters the mind, questioning things ect. Not always a good thing. It's funny that drinking is cited so much in the Bible, but where is the weed? In other religions any mind altering substance is supposedly banned ect. but why? Maybe because it destabilizes the mind, makes it less susceptible to cultural bullshit, and encourages spontaneous and impulsive activities? Which of course in the era of drinking and driving is a bad thing, impulse activities are cited as one as the biggest dangers of alcohol abuse, but it isn't always dangerous, at least not physically...
You are right that its effects are very subjective and varied. But my point doesn't even necessarily rest on the general effects of marijuana, but rather the unfair moralistic treatment it has hitherto received, disallowing it from even being tested effectively or on any wide scale.

I discover tastes in food I no longer notice, sounds and beauty in music that I would have missed

Interesting you note this. Of course when I'm high, I also feel that way, its one of the things I love about it...especially as a person with autism, its so difficult for me to focus or really focus my mind-even watch television or Youtube (at least without subtitles) my mind just starts wandering...running away. But that's not my point.
My point is I read a really interesting book last week on the effects of hormonal birth control, physiologically that is-people are under the belief that birth control only really affects the reproductive system, ie. stopping you from getting pregnant, but since this is done by altering and replacing hormones in the body, and hormones function to do basically everything in the body from eating to feeling ect. you are really completely altering your mind in a way more potentially affective than any temporary substance could-and its normalized, and barely investigated area of health. Interesting. Some of the studies featured in the book reported women who stopped taking birth control (after so many years) of being able to "taste foods again" or "enjoy music more"...



Grre January 13, 2020 at 21:41 #371231
Reply to iceblink luck If only I had the time to read Husserl.. Haha, one day