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Happiness not truth is a pathless land.

Shawn April 07, 2019 at 00:47 9675 views 30 comments
In one of my old threads, I mentioned a quote from Krishnamurti that 'truth is a pathless land'.

I have come to realize that this quote would reverberate more within an individual reading it had K said, "Happiness is a pathless land."

Now, many people come to see psychologists and psychiatrists and are never told this message. I mean, how cruel a message that (ought to) be conceived to any suffering individual that it's for them to decide what ought to give them meaning. Perhaps, logotherapy is really the only therapy that one ought to offer to any individual.

Looking at the issue from the sidelines, it is in our very nature to listen to authority. From upbringing to adulthood we are taught by others how we ought to behave or even (gasp) think about the world. This echo the saying by Krishnamurti or perhaps even Nietzsche that there needs to be a radical revolution in thought (or individualization or socialization) to apply such a message.

What do you think?

Comments (30)

christian2017 April 07, 2019 at 00:54 #273394
I read about Krishnamurti. I disagree with both truth is a pathless land and happiness is a pathless land. I think social norms are better for everybody. I believe that even ancient hunter gatherers had social norms but instead of worrying about some tyranicall government or corporation they had to worry about Tigers and bears and only had spears to defend themselves. (oversimplification)

People who don't have a sense of community are statistically shown to be more depressed than people who right wrong or indifferent are more individualistic.
I like sushi April 07, 2019 at 02:07 #273419
We must be honest with ourselves and, contrary as it sounds, we’re never likely to be sure when we’re lying to ourselves or not.

“Happiness” is a term to me that is as empty as saying I “like” something. It’s a social signal, a surface analogy of experience once it’s passed by.

Slowly but surely medicine is starting to work toward treating people on an individual basis. With technologies today it is slowly becoming a more viable approach to treatment. Within the realms of psychologists the personal connection with a therapist has always been an import one. If you feel the need for that kind of support, or you’re just curious, then taste the different flavours before settling on one - some will be detrimental to your health if you judge one trying to help you as the only option you have.
Shawn April 07, 2019 at 02:18 #273420
Quoting I like sushi
If you feel the need for that kind of support, or you’re just curious, then taste the different flavours before settling on one - some will be detrimental to your health if you judge one trying to help you as the only option you have.


I've taken logotherapy, Stoicism, and CBT as my claw and wrench towards personal and interpersonal issues.
praxis April 07, 2019 at 03:47 #273432
Quoting Wallows
In one of my old threads, I mentioned a quote from Krishnamurti that 'truth is a pathless land'.

I have come to realize that this quote would reverberate more within an individual reading it had K said, "Happiness is a pathless land."


Truth is a pathless land makes sense to me because if you’re truely interested in the truth you’ll follow it wherever it leads, and it tends to be disillusioning, which tends to be nihilistic.

Happiness is not a pathless land. The path is so well worn most don’t need a guide.
Shawn April 07, 2019 at 04:39 #273437
Quoting praxis
Happiness is not a pathless land. The path is so well worn most don’t need a guide.


What do you mean by that? Is this just stating the same truth that we are acquainted with? If so why are there so many unhappy people?
praxis April 07, 2019 at 19:51 #273782
Though many people want to be happy I don’t think that many set out to be happy. Most just struggle to get by, and those that don’t need to struggle tend to seek money, status, pleasures, distractions, and things of that nature. Does anyone set out with the life goal of being happy? If most did, I doubt society would be as materialistic as is is.
Shawn April 07, 2019 at 19:54 #273784
Quoting praxis
Does anyone set out with the life goal of being happy?


Presumably, philosophers do; but, the Hoi polloi think they ought to be ignored because of their idealism.

Quoting praxis
If most did, I doubt society would be as materialistic as is is.


What do you mean?
praxis April 08, 2019 at 04:15 #274026
Reply to Wallows

Being materialistic is not conducive to happiness, essentially.
Shawn April 08, 2019 at 07:31 #274058
Reply to praxis

This doesn't really help. I mean, as a juxtaposition think about the fine line between the Stoic school of thought and Cynicism.

Is the confusion clear now?
Wayfarer April 08, 2019 at 07:40 #274062
Quoting Wallows
I have come to realize that this quote would reverberate more within an individual reading it had K said, "Happiness is a pathless land."


Well, you might like this aphorism from Thich Naht Hanh - ‘There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way’.
Shawn April 08, 2019 at 07:45 #274064
Reply to Wayfarer

Do you know the way?
Wayfarer April 08, 2019 at 07:51 #274067
So what if I said Yes. How’s that going to help. ‘Hey this guy on the forum who says....’

Actually, one point that ought to be mentioned in respect of the Krishnamurti quote. Straight after he dismisses ‘paths’ he introduces another analogy. So there might not be ‘a path’ but there’s certainly ‘a climb’. Important thing to get.
Shawn April 08, 2019 at 08:00 #274068
Reply to Wayfarer

But I prefer to go through the mountain rather than over it contrary to what K says about climbing it. It's the shortest pathway to overcome.
Wayfarer April 08, 2019 at 08:54 #274083
Reply to Wallows Is there a remote for that?
Shawn April 08, 2019 at 09:07 #274087
Reply to Wayfarer

Yeah, I'm just digging away. Why do you need a remote?
Wayfarer April 08, 2019 at 10:07 #274114
Sorry for being facetious. :sad:
Shawn April 08, 2019 at 10:39 #274137
Quoting Wayfarer
Sorry for being facetious. :sad:


All good. I'm slow with jokes anyway.

Wallow wallow.
Heracloitus April 08, 2019 at 10:49 #274141
I prefer to think truth as a multiplicity of paths that each one of us must carve out.

Don't know much about krishnamurti. Was he a non-dualist 'thinker' ?
praxis April 08, 2019 at 15:52 #274230
Quoting Wallows
This doesn't really help. I mean, as a juxtaposition think about the fine line between the Stoic school of thought and Cynicism.

Is the confusion clear now?


Now I’m confused.

With an understanding that materialistic values tend to be shallow when it comes to meaning, and meaning is an essential facet of happiness, there should be no confusion. But this is not news for you, clearly, having read Victor Frankel and studied the stoics.
Shawn April 09, 2019 at 00:44 #274514
Quoting praxis
With an understanding that materialistic values tend to be shallow when it comes to meaning, and meaning is an essential facet of happiness, there should be no confusion.


Well, the Cynics proposed that we do away with ALL wealth and comfort and expose ourselves to voluntary discomfort. Do you think they were actually happy people? Seems like the cool-headed Stoic is at an advantage here.
Changeling April 09, 2019 at 03:36 #274561
I just wanted to listen to this again
petrichor April 09, 2019 at 04:47 #274572
Quoting christian2017
People who don't have a sense of community are statistically shown to be more depressed than people who right wrong or indifferent are more individualistic.


Herd warmth certainly feels good in some ways. But should our lives be about staying comfortable?
petrichor April 09, 2019 at 04:49 #274573
Quoting Wallows
"Happiness is a pathless land."
...
Perhaps, logotherapy is really the only therapy that one ought to offer to any individual.


Ironic that you say happiness is a pathless land and then suggest that logotherapy is maybe the one true path to happiness! :razz:

petrichor April 09, 2019 at 04:56 #274575
Quoting Wallows
But I prefer to go through the mountain rather than over it contrary to what K says about climbing it. It's the shortest pathway to overcome.


Ah, but the point is to be on top of the mountain, with the big world-transcending view, isn't it? To tunnel through the mountain leaves you still at its base, a position pretty much like the one you started with!

And as for shortest paths, if you want to get to the other side of the mountain, a path through the mountain rather than over it is certainly shorter in terms of distance. But is it shorter in terms of time? Effort?
Louco April 09, 2019 at 13:59 #274686
I think it is more than a question of authority; truth being pathless means also that we ourselves can't establish paths upon this land.
How could someone say that, and at the same time have a high regard for human culture? (Since it seems to me that when you say truth is pathless you throw all culture, all transmission of knowledge, away).
Ignoring the misanthropic option, we are left with a saying that is at odds with, for instance, the teaching of mathematics. What would be a class in geometry but a guided tour around the land of truth?

So when K. talks about pathlessness, he is not talking about (lacking) transmission of knowledge. Perhaps he is referencing a qualitative difference between learning and truth-seeking: learning happens, while truth simply is. Man changes, truth is static.
Shawn April 09, 2019 at 18:07 #274745
Quoting petrichor
Ironic that you say happiness is a pathless land and then suggest that logotherapy is maybe the one true path to happiness! :razz:


Yes, it is a paradox. One I don't know how to surmount.
Shawn April 09, 2019 at 18:13 #274755
Quoting petrichor
To tunnel through the mountain leaves you still at its base, a position pretty much like the one you started with!


But, I might find something interesting? Like gold instead of a dead corpse on the death zone or littered bottles of oxygen. Hehe.
praxis April 09, 2019 at 18:52 #274773
Quoting Wallows
Well, the Cynics proposed that we do away with ALL wealth and comfort and expose ourselves to voluntary discomfort. Do you think they were actually happy people? Seems like the cool-headed Stoic is at an advantage here.


I don't know anything about the Cynics besides a quick synopsis, but I would agree that regularly getting outside of our comfort zone may be an essential part of happiness, in that it's necessary for growth or development. Stagnation tends to be meaningless and leading to degeneration.
Shawn April 09, 2019 at 19:21 #274782
Reply to praxis

Something about that stinks of male chauvinism. Don't you think?
praxis April 09, 2019 at 20:18 #274809
Reply to Wallows I'm confused again.