You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

Individualization and Socialization

Shawn March 22, 2019 at 05:41 9550 views 6 comments
I've been long aware of the differences due to my own deficits in the process of either individualization or socialization.

What bothers me is that there is no universal standard as to how to apply these two seemingly opposing concepts.

How would you go about separating the two at their best time?

Philosophically, Plato and Aristotle were most concerned with these matters, yet we haven't come very far in reaching some agreement in this regard.

Some of the above is inspired by Richard Rorty.

Comments (6)

Baden March 22, 2019 at 10:38 #267530
Reply to Wallows

The two are intertwined. The individual is social and society is composed of individuals. So, individualization is a process whereby the socialized individual develops his or her character in a way that defines them apart from other individuals in the social context. And socialization is, in a broad sense, the production of individuals as persons in the first place. It begins more or less from birth. So, there's always some degree of individualization and some degree of socialization, and it's not a zero sum game either.

But your question is not very clear. Are you confused about the concepts or looking for advice on how to apply them to your own life? Or what?
Shawn March 22, 2019 at 20:12 #267664
Quoting Baden
The two are intertwined. The individual is social and society is composed of individuals. So, individualization is a process whereby the socialized individual develops his or her character in a way that defines them apart from other individuals in the social context. And socialization is, in a broad sense, the production of individuals as persons in the first place. It begins more or less from birth. So, there's always some degree of individualization and some degree of socialization, and it's not a zero sum game either.

But your question is not very clear. Are you confused about the concepts or looking for advice on how to apply them to your own life? Or what?


Well, we no longer have the draft, in place. But, would you call a society, say Israel, as more coherent and socialized in terms of atomic units rather than the wild and crazy States?
Baden March 22, 2019 at 21:27 #267688
Reply to Wallows

You'd have to come up with some criteria to quantify levels of socialization. I'm not sure how you'd do that in an uncontroversial way. The US regularly gets high survey scores in the area of individualism vs collectivism in Hofstede's cultural dimensions model, for example, whereas Israel gets more of a median score*. So, that's a measure, roughly speaking, of how much people prefer "doing their own thing" and I guess that's what you're pointing to with your comparison. But does that mean Americans are less "socialized" than Israelis? Not necessarily. Americans watch more TV, are more medicated, and are exposed to more advertising and corporate control than the citizens of almost any other country out there. These are all effects that could fall under the umbrella term of socialization. Note too that being an individualist is not necessarily being individualized. So, it's really hard to make comparisons without theory building first. Show me your theory of socialization vs individualization and make sure it's coherent, self-consistent, open and sophisticated enough to handle international comparisons and I'll apply it. But by then you'll already know the answer...

* https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country/israel/

User image

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Hofstedes-Cultural-Dimension-Model-Hofstede-1991-p28_tbl1_220500429
Shawn March 23, 2019 at 01:28 #267738
Reply to Baden

So, the question has become one of not socialization; but, collectivism.

Can individualism coexist in a highly collectivist society, implying that such a society isn't necessarily homogenous either too.
Baden March 23, 2019 at 13:21 #267823
Reply to Wallows

Yes, it can, but there will tend to be costs in terms of social capital. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. And so most nails learn a preference for staying down. Homogeneity is always a matter of degree though. And again you'd need to have a theoretical lens through which to examine it in order to uncover much of interest.
Terrapin Station March 23, 2019 at 13:51 #267836
Except for the last question above, it's not clear to me what you're asking in this thread, Wallows, or what specific point you'd be making.