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Experience, beauty and art.

Brett March 20, 2019 at 03:23 9000 views 24 comments
When I go for a swim in the morning and the water is glassy, very clear, the sun reflects off the waves, the offshore breeze catches the spray off the waves, I’m in the water, there’s no rip, everything looks beautiful.

I wonder what it is that makes it beautiful to look at: the colours, my feelings, the sensations?

The next day the sky is overcast, the water’s dull, I think about sharks, there’s a slight undertow, no offshore breeze, a wind rippling the surface, and it no longer looks beautiful.

Was it beautiful the previous day because of the way it looked and how I felt, or was it because it was good, as in non threatening? So I’m inclined to think that beautiful is something good, but I know that won’t work. Sometimes I’ve watched videos of men at war in Vietnam and there have been moments when I considered what I was watching as beautiful.

Secondly, why do I have the desire to capture that moment on the beach in memory even as I experience it, and to then remake it in some art form?

Comments (24)

RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 03:27 #266649
Reply to Brett Reminds me of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. What happens to the quality of a song that has been listened to a zillion times? If it was good the first time, then why was it not so good the zillionth time?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 03:34 #266651
Reply to Noah Te Stroete

Yes, if it’s that good then isn’t it always good and so in a way the song’s lost us.
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 03:38 #266653
Reply to Brett Well, the saying “familiarity breeds contempt” came from somewhere. Perhaps we don’t find ordinary things so beautiful?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 03:46 #266654
Reply to Noah Te Stroete
You’ve opened a can of worms there. What’s ordinary? Is sun, sand and water ordinary?
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 03:50 #266656
Reply to Brett I was referring to experiences. If you had the Mona Lisa hanging on your living room wall for ten years, would it have the same quality on the tenth year as the first day? Likewise, sunsets are considered beautiful by many. If the sun was always on the horizon, would it be a big deal?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 03:55 #266658
Reply to Noah Te Stroete

I swim almost every day and that experience of beauty, on those days, has never changed. By ordinary I meant the sun, sea and sand was about as elemental as you could get. Of course it could be a perfect combination. But still, why beautiful?
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 03:56 #266659
Reply to Brett Suppose that ideal combination occurred every day?
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:01 #266662
But what about that ideal combination makes it beautiful to you? You prefer it somehow. However, if that experience of that perfect combination became ordinary, then you might no longer prefer it. Do you agree?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:02 #266666
Reply to Noah Te Stroete
Yes, I see what you mean, because even at the beach I have, as I said, non days, which makes the good days special. So is beauty a rarity, or less common anyway?
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:04 #266669
Reply to Brett I think something has to be less common in order for people to see beauty in it, yes.
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:12 #266673
Reply to Noah Te Stroete

I’m not sure if being rare or less common works towards beauty. I think there must be things we only occasionally see that are truly horrible.
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:13 #266675
Reply to Brett I think aesthetics are all preferences really. Many people agree on certain beautiful things, but this doesn’t imply objective beauty. We just have certain things in common. Many people would agree with me that Van Gogh’s Cafe de Nuit is beautiful, but those same people might disagree with me that Anne Hathaway is beautiful.
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:14 #266676
Quoting Brett
I’m not sure if being rare or less common works towards beauty. I think there must be things we only occasionally see that are truly horrible.


I think rarity is a necessary condition of beauty. I think horrible things can be rare or ordinary.
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:18 #266678
Reply to Brett You might still prefer that certain combination of sun, sand, and sea; but if it became ordinary it would somehow lose value to you. No?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:19 #266679
Reply to Noah Te Stroete

I was going to say that I’ve seen some powerful storms I thought beautiful, but then I thought, maybe beauty isn’t what I was experiencing, just something similar.

Quoting Noah Te Stroete
I think horrible things can be rare or ordinary.


But not beautiful because of that.
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:21 #266682
Quoting Noah Te Stroete
You might still prefer that certain combination of sun, sand, and sea; but if it became ordinary it would somehow lose value to you. No?


Yes, there have been moments at certain locations, which I remember experiencing as beautiful, that no longer had that impact on me.
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:23 #266683
Quoting Brett
I was going to say that I’ve seen some powerful storms I thought beautiful, but then I thought, maybe beauty isn’t what I was experiencing, just something similar.


Have you ever seen the movie, American Beauty? The drug dealing teenager with the Army dad found beauty in ordinary things, even macabre things. Maybe it’s a matter of seeing things with “fresh” eyes/perspective?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:25 #266685
Quoting Noah Te Stroete
I think aesthetics are all preferences really. Many people agree on certain beautiful things, but this doesn’t imply objective beauty. We just have certain things in common. Many people would agree with me that Van Gogh’s Cafe de Nuit is beautiful, but those same people might disagree with me that Anne Hathaway is beautiful.


Yes, however, I ve got a bit side tracked, because I was trying to establish why “I” thought the beach was beautiful that day, when it was the same place I no longer thought beautiful on the overcast day. And is “goodness” attached to beauty?

Edit: the beach was no longer beautiful on the bad day.
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:27 #266686
Quoting Brett
Yes, however, I ve got a bit side tracked, because I was trying to establish why “I” thought the beach was beautiful that day, when it was the same place I no longer thought beautiful on the overcast day.


Perhaps it WAS that ideal combination of circumstances that you prefer that hasn’t gotten old yet?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:29 #266687
Reply to Noah Te Stroete

Yes, that’s a good point. Sorry to this, but what is ideal, why is it individually ideal?
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:33 #266688
Reply to Brett Perhaps your unique psychology and how you’ve come to attribute good feelings to certain things over the course of your life? If for example, you almost drowned on that very beach where your loved one was also murdered (sorry), then you might have a different psychological preference. Am I getting warm?
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:34 #266689
Reply to Noah Te Stroete

Yes, memory is good. I’ll think about that.
RegularGuy March 20, 2019 at 04:37 #266690
Reply to Brett Your method of asking the right questions was helpful in this dialogue. I wish more people had that skill.
Brett March 20, 2019 at 04:39 #266691
Reply to Noah Te Stroete
Yes, I wish it was more like that, too.