The God of Creation vs the God of Rituals

Perhaps the answer lies in the sequence of things... In Christian tradition God seams to care about what happens on earth first rest of the cosmos being devoid of life takes secondary role. But I am with you on the Creator vs Ritualist God... How can creator care about my dress and all that....

Quoting Avro

In Christian tradition God seams to care about what happens on earth first rest of the cosmos being devoid of life takes secondary role.

Which is contradicting as to why the rest should be of an almost infinite scale and with such complexity. So that there might even be exotic material in the universe that does not even exist here on earth, while some material and aspects of rituals handle material and matter that have a rarity on earth, giving them high value, but in the universe, there's tons of it. Like rare metals, such as gold, which there could be whole planets of, but in some religious rituals, gold is of high value. Why does it have high value if there's a place in the universe that is entirely made of molten gold? So there's a lot of contradiction between a God who made the entire universe and a God who cares if linen and wool are mixed in clothing. I have a hard time even entertaining the thought of trying to make sense of it, so how can it make sense? This is a good example of why there's little probability of a god even caring about this tiny blue planet if a god existed at all.

See pantheism or panentheism.

There is also something like the soul of the universe, common to all beings, called Atman (check this out) in Vedanta myth.

Currently the notion of a fractal universe (or holographic) impresses me as a possibility, where smaller fractions contain the same information (or pattern) as the whole.

Certainly, many rituals are stupid and asinine. However, some may serve the purpose of putting the mind in a state that is conducive to spiritual experience. Fasting in some religions, prayer and meditation, and even taking psychoactive drugs or sitting in a sweat lodge can alter a state of consciousness. We do these things to “commune with God”. Other rituals that seem arbitrary and silly may still serve the purpose of keeping the mind on God.

Reply to Jacob-B The gods can be our creation along with the absurd rituals, and still be useful to us. Most people engage in rituals, even atheists. Shared rituals, shared beliefs, shared space and time, etc. all have a unifying effect. Private rituals are personally reassuring.

We created some nice religious narratives, and those are shared and also have a unifying effect in culture.

Religion, the gods, their assigned rituals and prayers, songs, dances, and so on exist because life is difficult, there is no obvious over-riding meaning to our existence, and without a framework of meaning, life is fairly grim.

Quoting Jacob-B

How does he connect with dietary laws, the communion, and Ramadan? Could someone provide me with a rational explanation?

Simple. God pays attention to detail. She is able to do all you describe, and maybe more too. :wink: I don't know if that's the right answer, but it's a rational explanation.... :chin: I see no problem here to be discussed. What have I missed? :chin:

Mircea Eliade (scholar of myth) relates some ritual performance of our forebears as a means to sustain creation itself. There is more to this point of view than what the conventional secular dismissal permits.

What does commuting every morning from the suburbs to the city, in fuming congestion sustain? And why is it not a ritual? Because riding in a car is miscategorized as a non-ritual, non-religious, secular perodicity. You are not riding to church... and the world as a whole is not a sacred place. Your lover is a bag of blood, bones and shit, and if his/her face accidentally unbecomes itself, then something else may change.

"There are only two ways to live your life: as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle." Albert Eeinstein (did Eeinstein say this?)

The ritual of the anti-miracle is one of disenchantment. For example, the ritual of demonstrating "free will" is on going somewhere close by.

Reply to Jacob-B

This is very simple. Altered States of Consciousness (ASC) are induced by various different physiological stresses. The main stresses are fasting, trance dancing, hyperventilation, sleep deprivation, prolonged solitude and deep concentration/focus.

It doesn’t take much imagination to see how these rituals can induce “religious” type experiences (or simply psychosis).

Reply to Jacob-B I guess we could give a scientific perspective to it. The law of gravity applies to the entire universe and yet it also applies to the tiniest speck of dust. On the large scale gravity keeps galaxies together and on the small scale dust falls to the ground. The effect of gravity is different at different scales.

Likewise God's laws give order to the universe itself and also controls the way we dress, what we eat, etc.

I don't follow any rituals nor do I encourage them because I actually don't know if God exists or not.

I think someone mentioned fractals.

For those too lazy to wiki:

Wikipedia: Ritual:A ritual is a sequence of activities involving gestures, words, and objects, performed in a sequestered place, and performed according to set sequence.[1] Rituals may be prescribed by the traditions of a community, including a religious community. Rituals are characterized but not defined by formalism, traditionalism, invariance, rule-governance, sacral symbolism, and performance.

A ritual is a sequence of activities involving gestures, words, and objects, performed in a sequestered place, and performed according to set sequence.[1] Rituals may be prescribed by the traditions of a community, including a religious community. Rituals are characterized but not defined by formalism, traditionalism, invariance, rule-governance, sacral symbolism, and performance.[2]

Rituals are a feature of all known human societies.[3] They include not only the worship rites and sacraments of organized religions and cults, but also rites of passage, atonement and purification rites, oaths of allegiance, dedication ceremonies, coming of age ceremony or rites, coronations and presidential inaugurations, marriages and funerals, school "rush" traditions and graduations, club meetings, sporting events, Halloween parties, veterans parades, Christmas shopping and more. Many activities that are ostensibly performed for concrete purposes, such as jury trials, execution of criminals, and scientific symposia,[citation needed] are loaded with purely symbolic actions prescribed by regulations or tradition, and thus partly ritualistic in nature. Even common actions like hand-shaking and saying "hello" may be termed rituals.

The field of ritual studies has seen a number of conflicting definitions of the term. One given by Kyriakidis is that a ritual is an outsider's or "etic" category for a set activity (or set of actions) that, to the outsider, seems irrational, non-contiguous, or illogical. The term can be used also by the insider or "emic" performer as an acknowledgement that this activity can be seen as such by the uninitiated onlooker.[4]

In psychology, the term ritual is sometimes used in a technical sense for a repetitive behavior systematically used by a person to neutralize or prevent anxiety; it is a symptom of obsessive–compulsive disorder.

Quoting TheMadFool

I don't follow any rituals nor do I encourage them because I actually don't know if God exists or not.

Would you reconsider the belief that you "don't follow any rituals" given that what is or is not a ritual is possibly a culturally relative distinction.

Reply to Pattern-chaser
Well, does he just 'pay attention' to details or does he create them? I suppose that by 'details'
you mean the whole tapestry of religious tenets and ritual as well as individua's life. Has he got a preference for particular 'details
And incidentally, the sheer size of the universe makes inevitable the existence of thousands, if not millions of civilizations. I think that would extend the span of attention beyond the breaking point of even the most omniscient god/