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Eudaimonia and Happiness.

Shawn February 22, 2019 at 19:02 6425 views 16 comments
After the death of Socrates, ancient Greek philosophy focused to a great extent on what man is, and what circumstances will allow him or her to flourish. Various schools were set up with this goal in mind. Plato and Aristotle are most renowned for pursuing this goal, with each of them drawing out a plan as to how this goal of human flourishing could be achieved.

Yet, after more than two millennia after their deaths, we are still fighting this perversion of the concept of happiness.

My question is that, why is there is a profound discrepancy between the philosopher's conception of what constitutes 'happiness' and what society at large thinks it equates to?

Comments (16)

praxis February 22, 2019 at 20:01 #258486
Quoting Wallows
Yet, after more than two millennia after their deaths, we are still fighting this perversion of the concept of happiness.


What exactly is the concept of happiness? and how has it been perverted?
Kippo February 22, 2019 at 20:14 #258488
This book "The Happiness Hypotheisis" by Jonathan Haidt examines ten pieces of wisdom handed down through various "ancients" and discusses their usefulness in attaining various states of "happiness" in modern society, in the context of our knowledge of evolutionary psychology and general human psychology.

Haidt's conclusion is that the ancients were onto something, but they were a bit inflexible and didn't get it right enough. In particular, a modest amount of comfort and ease in the external world can boost happiness a lot.
Deleted User February 22, 2019 at 20:45 #258500
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RegularGuy February 22, 2019 at 21:06 #258506
Quoting Wallows
My question is that, why is there is a profound discrepancy between the philosopher's conception of what constitutes 'happiness' and what society at large thinks it equates to?


Because no one gives a fuck what philosophers think.
Kippo April 07, 2019 at 16:01 #273653
Reply to tim wood

Very well.....

Let us define happiness as inversely proportional to some amount of change you would like to make to yourself and everything external to yourself. Let the state of yourself and everything else be called the "state". One's happiness by this definition, I will call "eustatia". Let the current state percevied be Sc. Let one's current ideal state be Si. Si is never less than Sc. Then the amount of eustatia experienced currently increases or decreases according to whether (Si - Sc) is decreasing or increasing.

Feel free to attack!
Deleted User April 07, 2019 at 18:48 #273751
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Deleted User April 07, 2019 at 18:50 #273752
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Shawn April 07, 2019 at 19:52 #273783
Quoting tim wood
No one?


It's an interesting question. Again, the Hoi polloi simply don't care for it. So, there's your problem. Until kings become philosophers or philosopher kings that is.
Louco April 07, 2019 at 22:51 #273889
Reply to Wallows

I think it is a catch-22: philosophers define the pursuit of happiness as something connected to reflection. Since most people dislike reflecting, they do not qualify as being "pursuers of happiness".
Fooloso4 April 07, 2019 at 22:51 #273890
Quoting Wallows
My question is that, why is there is a profound discrepancy between the philosopher's conception of what constitutes 'happiness' and what society at large thinks it equates to?


Because the framing of the questions where done by philosophers and the solutions led to the philosopher.
Shawn April 07, 2019 at 23:00 #273897
Quoting Louco
I think it is a catch-22: philosophers define the pursuit of happiness as something connected to reflection. Since most people dislike reflecting, they do not qualify as being "pursuers of happiness".


Ahh yes, once again these saying of the unexamined life is not worth living pop into my mind. How pointless and futile to try and engage some bystander in a philosophical discussion.
Shawn April 07, 2019 at 23:01 #273898
Quoting Fooloso4
Because the framing of the questions where done by philosophers and the solutions led to the philosopher.


But, philosophers are motivated by claiming to know the 'truth' where there might not be anything worth going over. Basically, if a philosopher has not persuaded some average Joe of the merit of his or her philosophy to society or the welfare of an individual, then hasn't he or she failed at being a philosopher?
Fooloso4 April 08, 2019 at 01:51 #273993
Quoting Wallows
But, philosophers are motivated by claiming to know the 'truth' ...


Not the skeptical ones, which include Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Nietzsche, Wittgenstein ...

Quoting Wallows
Basically, if a philosopher has not persuaded some average Joe of the merit of his or her philosophy to society or the welfare of an individual, then hasn't he or she failed at being a philosopher?


Basically, philosophers have never written for Joe.

Today we prize free speech, but for most of history the philosopher has had to have kept hidden.

Here are some quotes from philosophers in their writings about keeping something hidden in their writings. Click on the appendix.

https://www.press.uchicago.edu/sites/melzer/index.html



Kippo April 08, 2019 at 20:07 #274356
Reply to tim wood
You don't have to know the exact value of (Si - Sc). Actually it is very unlikely in most contexts - i.e. beyond the smple goal driven states of primitive forms of life - that the value is one dimensional. For example, one might be very eustatious -(i.e. "happy" as I defined it in my previous post) about a certain aspect of one's life that is coming good, but uneustatious about another that is failig to live up to one's hopes.

There may not be any point in somehow summing or integrating over all substates - the important aspect of understanding eustatiousness is knowing that happiness depends on making progress in all aspects. However, I suspect the unconscious brain provides some sort of summation which then feels as emotion.

Quoting tim wood
Does happiness cover a determinate time frame? If I'm happy this morning does that count towards this afternoon?


If you model happiness as eustaciousness then time problems are handled quite naturally because you can have ideal substates that explictly mention time. For example, "I want to tidy the garden by dinner time". The value of this achieving this substate diminshes over time, because it was time oriented.

Obviously I am making this up on the fly, but hey I think it's a goer!
Deleted User April 08, 2019 at 20:58 #274381
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Kippo April 10, 2019 at 20:58 #275225
Quoting tim wood
Shall we work on this a bit?


OK! here goes

Quoting tim wood
I wonder if by happiness you mean a feeling as opposed to a judgment, and at that a feeling about some things, but not - and probably not - about all things.


Sure - there are bound to be many things in a state-of-affairs that you don't care about.

Quoting tim wood
As judgment I read happiness as a kind of satisfaction and contentment, and to be sure the enjoyment of the feeling of those. At the same time, I can easily conceive of happiness while not feeling especially good at all.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by happiness as a "judgement", but surely satisfaction and contentment come from achieving a desired state-of-affairs. Perhaps contentment is when the state-of-affairs aimed for is deliberately not one's ideal, but a trimmed back one.

It is interesting to note that happiness and contentment stagnate and reduce if the state-of-affiars does not change. I think psychological studies show this. So this fact needs to be squared with the notion of happiness being maximised when an "ideal state" is achieved. My solution that preserves the integrity of happiness (eustaciousness) is that the ideal state should be declared in terms which allow a never ending maintenance of the environment. Thus a person who enjoys gardening would never want a garden that needs no work, but would want one that always requires the amount of work and time she wants to put in.