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Freedom of speech or freedom from speech?

hachit February 14, 2019 at 18:37 6400 views 14 comments
First for the sake of argument I'm going to define Freedom Of Speech as any speech that is not Hate Speech. So any speech that doesn't have the intention to harm.

Freedom From Speech is the idea that we have the right to be free from speech that offends the person in question. this idea comes from the far left on the political spectrum and is part of there goal of a secular society.

So here are the two questions that I'm proposing:

1. dose Freedom Of Speech also entitle you to Freedom From Speech?
2. dose Freedom From Speech infringe on Freedom Of Speech?

My personal answers are:

1. no because I have believe right to be offended, and exposed to new ideas.
2. yes, because of its nature Freedom From Speech must stop the progress of any new idea.

Comments (14)

Echarmion February 14, 2019 at 19:10 #255944
Quoting hachit
first for the sake of argument I'm going to define Freedom Of Speech as any speech that is not Hate Speech. so any speech that don't have the intention to harm.


Those are two different things though. Hate speech is a specific category of speech that is considered unprotected in some countries but protected in others. This is not necessarily the same as "intention to harm" which sounds closer to the US' "imminent lawless action" standard.

Quoting hachit
Freedom From Speech is the idea that we have the right to be free from speech that offends the person in question. this idea comes from the far left on the politcal spectrum and is part of there goal of a secular society


Does anyone on "the left" actually say this or is this just something "the left" is accused of?

Insults are not protected speech in many countries, but I have not heard of any initiative to make "offensive" speech illegal.
hachit February 14, 2019 at 20:46 #255977
Reply to Echarmion
Those are two different things though.

I gave that definition for just the sake of argument. In my country you almost need to commit murder before being convicted of hate speech. In realty though I treat it as something that needs no definition because we all know what it is.

Does anyone on "the left" actually say this or is this just something "the left" is accused of?


The frist part of what I said is what people on the left say. They have arguments to back them up as well, most of them I find are doggy.

The second part about a secular society is something that some university professors said on the topic and when you look at this and others evidence it is convincing.w

Insults are not protected speech in many countries, but I have not heard of any initiative to make "offensive" speech illegal.


Right now the movmemt is limited but growing rapidly at least in my country. They cover it up with the words political correctness.

I'm not talking about protecting insults thought. I'm talking about protection of my right to express my opinion on a topic that may be sensitive to some.

Here are some articles that may help with understanding

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5115128/snowflake-generation-meaning-origin-term/

https://globalnews.ca/news/4009843/justin-trudeau-peoplekind-piers-morgan/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/9842384/This-Equality-obsession-is-mad-bad-and-very-dangerous.html

And there are plenty more examples.
Echarmion February 14, 2019 at 20:58 #255984
Quoting hachit
I gave that definition for just the sake of argument. In my country you almost need to commit murder before being convicted of hate speech. In realty though I treat it as something that needs no definition because we all know what it is.


If the definition isn't really relevant, it's usually best to use one that is actually commonly used, like from wikipedia.

Quoting hachit
The frist part of what I said is what people on the left say. They have arguments to back them up as well, most of them I find are doggy.


And do these "people on the left" have names? Or an article one could read?

Quoting hachit
Right now the movmemt is limited but growing rapidly at least in my country. They cover it up with the words political correctness.


So, are they or are they not trying to make "offensive speech" illegal? And what is the definition of "offensive speech" they use?

Quoting hachit
Here are some articles that may help with understanding

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5115128/snowflake-generation-meaning-origin-term/

https://globalnews.ca/news/4009843/justin-trudeau-peoplekind-piers-morgan/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/9842384/This-Equality-obsession-is-mad-bad-and-very-dangerous.html

And there are plenty more examples.


Those are right-wing opinion pieces that also don't seem to mention either "freedom from speech" or making "offensive speech" illegal. Is it possible that you jumped to conclusions?
hachit February 14, 2019 at 21:18 #255989
Those are right-wing


Yes but everyone has a bias in politics

These articles are probably what your looking for

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

https://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/the-end-of-religious-liberty-in-canada-1264412.html

The second one is by extension if you didn't get it.
Deleted User February 14, 2019 at 22:07 #255993
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Terrapin Station February 15, 2019 at 13:30 #256201
Reply to tim wood

It's not as if people didn't intentionally offend, insult, etc. others, that some didn't advocate controversial socio-political approaches, etc. in the mid to late eighteenth century.
hachit February 15, 2019 at 13:42 #256207
Reply to tim wood well that is the best I herd on the subject in years, I live in Canada which has a different political landscape.
Terrapin Station February 15, 2019 at 14:00 #256212
Re the Canadian law you're referring to:

(a) Long before this bill was introduced, the Canadian criminal code prohibited the promotion of genocide and the public incitement of hatred against groups identifiable by colour, race, religion, and ethnic origin. (Sounds like they basically wanted to make it illegal to try to get a holocaust going against some ethnicity, religion, etc.)

(b) The bill simply proposed adding "sexual orientation" to the above. (So don't start a holocaust against LGBTQ folks, either)

(c) The bill actually added protections for good-faith opinions based on religious texts--which is the exact opposite of what the article you quoted above suggests.

(d) The bill in question was passed into law all the way back in 2004.

While I'm (controversially) not in favor of any speech restrictions whatsoever, this also seems like over-the-top scaremongering, basically. The law has been in effect for almost fifteen years. What are some of the questionable legal cases that have arisen in its wake?
Deleted User February 15, 2019 at 14:35 #256224
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Terrapin Station February 15, 2019 at 14:41 #256226
Reply to tim wood

What are you thinking we do as offensive speech-acts now that weren't done in the 1780s?
Deleted User February 15, 2019 at 15:08 #256239
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Terrapin Station February 15, 2019 at 15:19 #256241
Quoting tim wood
Wearing jackets that say "Fuck the Draft" in court. Exhibitions of depravity as art.


Re the first, I'd agree that wasn't done in the 18th century, but whenever I've been in court, there were restrictions on what people were allowed to wear--you'd be booted out for certain things, even in the juror pool room. That's not to say that people haven't worn whatever on some occasions, but has it ever been the case that people could routinely wear whatever they want in court? Aside from that, is clothing typically parsed as speech legally? There are a lot of clothing restrictions and laws in a lot of contexts, and I can't recall those restrictions being challenged as a freedom of speech issue (mainly because if they were, how did they hold up as freedom of speech restrictions)?

The the second, I'm not sure what you're talking about. What sort of art are we talking about re offending anyone via "exhibitions of 'depravity'"?
hachit February 15, 2019 at 18:56 #256290
Reply to Terrapin Station yes, it was past in 2004 but I didn't know about it and its affects till 2014.

a quote from
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_hat7.htm

The legislation was strongly opposed by religious conservatives. They warned that Christian pastors, Jewish rabbis, Muslim Imams, or other religious leaders could find themselves in jail if they were to preach that homosexuality is evil or sinful.


now yes the law has its Protections

now looking at this
http://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-16/first-reading

even if not successful it is bad that it is being considered. if successful this will end with any Christian that dose not comply will be in jail. to my knowledge mostly pastors.

as I know your atheist, I know your have different opinion. Christians we told not to support people like the LGBTQ and what they stand for is sinful. Christians have no problem with LGBTQ existence as long as they don't interfere with Christians existence. which it looks like they are starting to.

also in Canada it is becoming easier restrict speech for being offended because people complain to the right people and they give in. which it regulating speech without the court. That is my biggest problem.

the reason C-250 is a problem is it help lay the ground work. your right there is scaremongering, but I like to attack the roots before there's a tree.
Deleted User February 15, 2019 at 18:57 #256292
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