So, someone who really cannot do something is truly helpless with regard to that something. Learned helplessness on the other hand refers to a conditioned state that comes from over-dependence, the solution to which is independence.
Towards themselves you mean? Ok. Difficult. Maybe you could put them in a situation where they are forced to show themselves they can do more than they thought. Most of us can when pushed. But something has to break the equilibrium. People don't usually just spontaneously change.
Not sure what gave you that impression :razz:. Anyway, my take is we take the path of least resistance unless we have a very good reason not to. And that reason usually involves pain, physical or emotional. We'll ride all the way down that slide unless we think there's an acid bath at the end of it, in which case we might put a little effort into reversing course.
I hope I don't give the impression I know what I'm talking about with regard to therapy or anything btw. I'm just throwing this out there fwiw. Always consult a professional for your personal situation.
Reply to Wallows What makes you interesting is that you truly don't care what others think, exuding an unapologetic confidence in your chosen path of shiftlesness.
ValentinusDecember 09, 2018 at 04:11#2351220 likes
Joking aside, the helplessness is not just about what awful things happened to you and me but a reflection upon a ground. Getting an angle upon it, as it were.
unenlightenedDecember 09, 2018 at 10:56#2351980 likes
A craving(?), if you will get better? Perhaps, contentment or satisfaction is appropriate here for the issue. When is coping justified>?
unenlightenedDecember 09, 2018 at 20:43#2353010 likes
Reply to Wallows I'm thinking of changing my name to 'Mumenlightened.'
1. is probably true, in which case one cannot unlearn it, but might come to cease wanting it. It's a process that should begin when the infant becomes mobile. One of my daughter's favourite sayings from 1 to 3 yrs was "Let me do it on my rown!" ('rown' is a grammatico-logical mis-construction - You have your-own, I have my-rown.)
So I start to wonder why someone would want to disempower themselves? And so I think of...
2. Failure is dangerous? Well sure it can be sometimes, but another's failure is just as dangerous as my own. It can happen that the same (m)other that one manipulates with helplessness becomes the shaming critic of every move towards independence. Certainly it is some person, some trauma, that has taught that one's own actions are not the realisation of one's being, but the betrayal thereof, and that is what needs to be unlearned. A little courage is required.
I'm glossing over a swath of psychological complexity, not to mention the social helplessness that makes one dependent on a complex system that delivers that pizza to your door, and makes it very difficult for you to make your rown pizza.
3. But my daughter expresses the natural craving for autonomy, even at the price of occasional failure. That confidence has been undermined, but must remain, behind the mask that urges the safety of passivity. And it finds expression - in a philosophy forum? Where one can make mistakes, appear foolish, and yet survive, and also say something interesting and significant - one begins to live.
Comments (46)
By someone drugging you, flying you to an impoverished country and dropping you off penniless in its poorest city.
Oh dear, well thanks for replying.
How would you explain the way we learn 'helplessness'? What's your theory?
Not having to do stuff for yourself.
So, your take is that responsibility is the issue here?
My take is if the problem is not having to do things for yourself, the solution is having to do things for yourself.
But, what if one is unable to take care of themselves? Doesn't this complicate the issue?
You simply apply that principle to your limitations. We all have some.
How do you overcome the perception that a person has an inadequacy or failure towards better mental health?
Perception of who?
Someone depressed, anxious or what have you?
Towards themselves you mean? Ok. Difficult. Maybe you could put them in a situation where they are forced to show themselves they can do more than they thought. Most of us can when pushed. But something has to break the equilibrium. People don't usually just spontaneously change.
What's your take on willpower? You seem to have an abundance of it.
Not sure what gave you that impression :razz:. Anyway, my take is we take the path of least resistance unless we have a very good reason not to. And that reason usually involves pain, physical or emotional. We'll ride all the way down that slide unless we think there's an acid bath at the end of it, in which case we might put a little effort into reversing course.
I hope I don't give the impression I know what I'm talking about with regard to therapy or anything btw. I'm just throwing this out there fwiw. Always consult a professional for your personal situation.
You do too. You just will to talk about your lack of willpower. You've got 6,100 posts yet you insist you can't do anything.
It's mostly undirected and haphazardous. Basically, disorganized.
Monkeys typing away, one day hoping to write the entirety of Hamlet could have done the same if not better.
Glad you are. That was the intent anyways.
Could be worse for you and monkeys. You could be churning out the type of crap @Hanover does day in day out. :monkey:
I still don't get your love-hate relationship with our fellow Hanover. Boggles my mind. You two should find a room and parade away there.
Don't assume we haven't.
Keep in behind closed doors, if you will...
That's the inner failed Stoic, turned Cynic for you.
Don't tell me how to express my love.
Parade away!
Whatever floats your boat.
A penny saved is a penny earned.
Now time to take my meds.
What have you learned?
1. Acting pathetic gets (m)other(s) to run around after me.
2. Doing nothing keeps me safe from failure.
3. Something else, please specify.
Yes,
Quoting unenlightened
Yes,
Quoting unenlightened
A craving(?), if you will get better? Perhaps, contentment or satisfaction is appropriate here for the issue. When is coping justified>?
1. is probably true, in which case one cannot unlearn it, but might come to cease wanting it. It's a process that should begin when the infant becomes mobile. One of my daughter's favourite sayings from 1 to 3 yrs was "Let me do it on my rown!" ('rown' is a grammatico-logical mis-construction - You have your-own, I have my-rown.)
So I start to wonder why someone would want to disempower themselves? And so I think of...
2. Failure is dangerous? Well sure it can be sometimes, but another's failure is just as dangerous as my own. It can happen that the same (m)other that one manipulates with helplessness becomes the shaming critic of every move towards independence. Certainly it is some person, some trauma, that has taught that one's own actions are not the realisation of one's being, but the betrayal thereof, and that is what needs to be unlearned. A little courage is required.
I'm glossing over a swath of psychological complexity, not to mention the social helplessness that makes one dependent on a complex system that delivers that pizza to your door, and makes it very difficult for you to make your rown pizza.
3. But my daughter expresses the natural craving for autonomy, even at the price of occasional failure. That confidence has been undermined, but must remain, behind the mask that urges the safety of passivity. And it finds expression - in a philosophy forum? Where one can make mistakes, appear foolish, and yet survive, and also say something interesting and significant - one begins to live.
That would be enlightening.
I'm still churning through your response. Give me some time, and I might be able to address the issue.
Or confidence? Which is it?