You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

Words

Albert Keirkenhaur September 03, 2016 at 20:11 7800 views 18 comments
I think this happens to most people at least a few times in their life, but many years ago in 6th grade i'd occasionally forget how to write certain letters of the alphabet. I would forget what an 'R' or 'S' even looked like or what the hell they were in the first place. Looking back on that it's amusing to look at the words we type and read daily and ''break the illusion''. Seeing them for how they really are- squiggles and lines. The fact that we were raised to comprehend these squiggles and lines is an interesting flirtation with the notion that there is probably infinite variations of how language could work. For example if you were raised in a society that communicated only by clapping their hands in morse code, you'd do the same. Or perhaps by humming at various intensities. No matter how unconventional something might seem it could probably foster some sort of obscure communication.

Comments (18)

Barry Etheridge September 03, 2016 at 20:29 #19277
I would counter with the observation that there exists no human society that does not use spoken language which suggests that variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all. The human brain is pre-programmed for spoken language and grammar to such an extent that where no common language exists children are capable of creating one without supervision or guidance at all. Writing, semaphore, morse code and other signalling systems are in no way replacements for spoken language but simply ways to transmit words across distances which they do remarkably inefficiently (just remember how difficult it is to include tone in emails!)
Albert Keirkenhaur September 03, 2016 at 21:40 #19283
Reply to Barry Etheridge True. it's fascinating that we're programmed in such a way. Kinda like how nature ''knows'' to give us a liver for filtration, or eyes for vision.
Baden September 04, 2016 at 05:29 #19320
Quoting Barry Etheridge
I would counter with the observation that there exists no human society that does not use spoken language which suggests that variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all. The human brain is pre-programmed for spoken language and grammar to such an extent that where no common language exists children are capable of creating one without supervision or guidance at all.


The human brain is pre-programmed for language and grammar, it's true, but the language doesn't have to be spoken. Deaf children learn and create sign language in a way similar to normal children and spoken language right down to the potential insertion of novel grammatical complexity across generations / over time. A good example of this is Nicaraguan Sign Language, which developed spontaneously among a group of Nicaraguan schoolchildren as a pidgin initially before graduating later into a full-blown language. The reason no society uses anything other than spoken language is not because variations don't exist, but because they're generally unnecessary.
jkop September 04, 2016 at 10:08 #19325
The squiggles and lines are constituitive for written words, but insufficient for being words. What written, spoken, or otherwise signed words have in common, and which makes them into words, is their causal history, not their design.
saw038 September 22, 2016 at 05:30 #22733
Reply to Albert Keirkenhaur All symbols, sounds, or whatever represent something in nature that we are trying to express to other people.
Barry Etheridge September 22, 2016 at 17:02 #22799
Reply to saw038

What in nature does 'Yoda' or 'Dalek' or 'sublime' or indeed 'philosophy' represent?
saw038 September 22, 2016 at 17:09 #22800
Reply to Barry Etheridge The first two may not be from nature in the sense they are like a tree, but if you google them, they have an image, a shape, they occupy matter and space.

For the other two, these are internal concepts and feelings that we try to capture in words. But their is a physiological nature behind even these concepts.
wuliheron September 30, 2016 at 16:54 #24120
A recent study of how children acquire grammar confirmed that Noam Chomsky was dead wrong and we use pattern matching to acquire grammar rather than inheriting it. The first five neural networks in the brain dedicated to pattern matching have already been mapped out as well. Work done by Alistar Clark has confirmed that most people rely upon merely the simplest two or three patterns for most daily tasks because of the energy intensive nature of the using this method, but the brain should contain eight or more. Anyway, it means there are roughly 4,430 distinctive patterns that can be generated which is certainly large, but definitely finite.
Terrapin Station September 30, 2016 at 17:09 #24122
Quoting Barry Etheridge
I would counter with the observation that there exists no human society that does not use spoken language which suggests that variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all


There's no way to tell that that's not simply because of social influence. No society emerged in isolation from others. Some became cut off from others, but they didn't start that way.
Michael September 30, 2016 at 17:40 #24125
Reply to Terrapin Station Well, given that all human life can be traced back to a single source, that's pretty trivial.
Hanover September 30, 2016 at 17:49 #24126
Quoting Albert Keirkenhaur
think this happens to most people at least a few times in their life, but many years ago in 6th grade i'd occasionally forget how to write certain letters of the alphabet.


That never happened to me. Do recall any specific triggering event that caused the onset of your forgetfulness like being struck by a rock or inhaling noxious fumes?
Terrapin Station September 30, 2016 at 20:12 #24151
Quoting Michael
Well, given that all human life can be traced back to a single source, that's pretty trivial.
Cool. So you agree that there's no way to tell that it's not simply because of social influence.

bassplayer September 30, 2016 at 21:30 #24175
I wouldn't worry. Body language still speaks volumes more than written or spoken language
Barry Etheridge September 30, 2016 at 22:19 #24186
Reply to Terrapin Station Correct but not really an objection to my point as far as I can see.
Barry Etheridge September 30, 2016 at 22:20 #24187
Reply to bassplayer Really? Try conducting this thread in body language and see how far you get!
bassplayer September 30, 2016 at 22:25 #24190
Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more.
Terrapin Station October 01, 2016 at 13:20 #24310
Reply to Barry Etheridge It would just be a matter of whether you were implying that it "suggests that potential/possible variations are in fact finite and quite possibly do not exist at all" or whether you were simply stating a contingent fact about what actually obtains at the moment.
Villion January 03, 2017 at 08:34 #43731
Reply to Albert Keirkenhaur
It has something to do with the conventionalities in which our life abounds. Spoken or written words are only examples of those. It always comes a time when we look ant what is conventional without being entrapped by the convention and we are struck by the feeling that what we saw in one way, that is a conventional way, may look quite differently when out of the convention.