You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

How can I enjoy things if I cannot be certain they are happening?

Kranky November 20, 2018 at 10:23 4725 views 16 comments
How can I enjoy things if I cannot be certain they are happening?

For example :
I'm sitting watching a sunset.
I think "wow this is pretty"
I then remember I cannot be certain I'm actually watching this beautiful sunset, as it may not even be happening.

How could I then continue to enjoy it?

Would I just have to hope that it is?

Would my underlying belief of it I thought the sunset was in fact real or not ultimately influence my enjoyment?

Comments (16)

A Seagull November 20, 2018 at 11:06 #229553
Reply to Kranky
Just enjoy the sunset.
It doesn't matter whether it is 'real' or not.
The reality of the sunset {and most other things besides) is all you know, and most likely all you will ever know.
Terrapin Station November 20, 2018 at 11:06 #229554
Why would you care about certainty?
Kranky November 20, 2018 at 11:13 #229555
Reply to Terrapin Station

Because without certainty, whats to say it's actually happening?

Surely there would be as much chance that it is not?

Terrapin Station November 20, 2018 at 11:18 #229556
Quoting Kranky
Because without certainty, whats to say it's actually happening?


You're using "actually" as a substitute for "certainty" there, so that you're asking a vacuous question (In other words, you're just restating "without certainty, I don't have certainty").

What's to say what's happening is experience/observation. You experience or observe a sunset, for example.
Terrapin Station November 20, 2018 at 11:25 #229557
Re observing a sunset, say, and re thinking "this may not be happening," instead of worrying about certainty, you should ask yourself why would I believe that this may not be happening? You should need a good reason to believe that.

The possibility that it's not happening is not a good reason. It's possible that it's happening, too.

You have a pretty good reason to believe that it's happening--you're experiencing or observing it.

You don't have certainty that it's happening, but who cares? Care about whether you have good reasons to believe whatever you believe. You don't need certainty.
Kranky November 20, 2018 at 11:30 #229560
Reply to Terrapin Station

But the good reason (observing) is not certain either. It just appears to be a good reason.

What is there to say that I'm not simply seeing something entirely different?
Terrapin Station November 20, 2018 at 11:37 #229562
Quoting Kranky
But the good reason (observing) is not certain either. It just appears to be a good reason.

What is there to say that I'm not simply seeing something entirely different?


Noting that the good reason is not certain is kind of dumb, because I didn't say that it was certain. I questioned the whole enterprise of desiring certainty, and I explicitly wrote "You don't have certainty that it's happening." Right after that, I wrote, "But who cares?"

"What is there to say" is noting that it's possible that you're seeing something entirely different.

I noted that.

And I said, "The possibility that it's not happening is not a good reason."

Why not?

Because it's possible that it's happening, too.

So you need a reason to believe other than mere possibility. On which side do you have a reason to believe that's something other than mere possibility?

It should be obvious that I couldn't care less about certainty, and I don't think you should care about it, either.
Kranky November 20, 2018 at 11:47 #229567
Reply to Terrapin Station

But with certainty things would be known.

Without this, in my mind, there is as much chance the sunset is happening as there is that it is not.

Yes, there are reasons which our senses may suggest it is happening. But these could be false.

How can I enjoy a view that I cannot even confirm thatvI think I am watching?
Terrapin Station November 20, 2018 at 11:54 #229570
Quoting Kranky
But with certainty things would be known.


There's no reason to require certainty for knowledge.

Quoting Kranky
Without this, in my mind, there is as much chance the sunset is happening as there is that it is not.


Explain how you're doing a probability calculation.

Quoting Kranky
Yes, there are reasons which our senses may suggest it is happening. But these could be false.


"These could be false" is possibility. I've addressed that already, but to address it again:

"These could be false" is possible.

"These could be true" is possible.

"There are reasons that suggest it is happening" is something additional on the one side.

Is there anything additional on the other side?

If not, how are you arriving at the probability calculation you're arriving at?

Quoting Kranky
How can I enjoy a view that I cannot even confirm thatvI think I am watching?


By not caring about something that there's no good reason to care about?
Kranky November 20, 2018 at 12:08 #229573
Reply to Terrapin Station

Reasons why it is true:
It may appear that it is happening.

Reaaons why it is false:
It may appear that it is not happening.

If I can't be certain that it is happening, both reasons are equally valid? I may or may not be viewing the sunset. My thoughts may be false and I'm not even viewing it.

This is so confusing, sorry
Streetlight November 20, 2018 at 12:17 #229578
Why would certainty be a condition of enjoyment? A bizarre connection,
Marchesk November 20, 2018 at 12:20 #229580
Turn it around. If you're being tortured, you're not going to worry about whether it's really happening. Pain has this nice property of driving skeptical thoughts away. So why not let pleasure do the same thing for you?
Terrapin Station November 20, 2018 at 12:39 #229585
Quoting Kranky
It may appear that it is happening.


So when you're watching a sunset it may appear that it is happening, but it may not appear?

It seems like you're not familiar with the term "appear."
Sayon Liberty November 20, 2018 at 17:09 #229641
Is your enjoyment of things based heavily on the certainty of their reality?
Ex: Sex - do you enjoy it for the sensations or the chance that it is certain.
Can you enjoy anything while while being certain it's fake? How about while unsure?

If a fake sunset was indiscernible to you from a real one is just the added info that one did happen and the other didn't enough to make one enjoyable to you and the other not?

I concede the added context of experiences being definitely fake or real can modify enjoyment but for something like [viewing a sunset] I don't see how. (any explanation would be appreciated)

Q: "How can I enjoy things if I can't be certain they are happening?"

A: If certainty is your prerequisite for enjoyment then you can't.
A: If certainty is neither the prerequisite or the primary factor then you simply will.
A Seagull November 20, 2018 at 20:39 #229720
Reply to Kranky
Certainty is a state of mind.
If you particularly seek certainty then you might try cultivating some myopia and blinkered or tunnel vision; a healthy dose of stupidity might help too.
Herg November 20, 2018 at 21:13 #229728
Quoting Kranky
I'm sitting watching a sunset.
I think "wow this is pretty"
I then remember I cannot be certain I'm actually watching this beautiful sunset, as it may not even be happening.

How could I then continue to enjoy it?


When you watch a movie, does the fact that what you are watching is not actually happening stop you enjoying it?

No?

Then why should the fact that the sunset may not actually be happening stop you enjoying it?