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In pursuit of happiness.

Shawn November 04, 2018 at 21:48 12075 views 38 comments
I've been down this path. It mainly starts with believing that happiness is supremely good, and needs to be attained over all else.

One can get lost in the myriad of ways one supposedly can attain this facet of humanity. But, that's fools gold. We all know that happiness is not attained directly. Only through an indirect method is happiness attained. Schopenhauer talked about this to great lengths. He never denied that we cannot attain happiness, even.

So what are your thoughts on the matter of happiness?

Comments (38)

TWI November 04, 2018 at 22:13 #224794
I always think of Elvis Presley's definition of happiness

"Someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to"

Sounds simple, and though I agree with that definition its not that easy to acheive on a regular basis.
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 22:30 #224799
Reply to TWI

Indeed. It seems like a hard bargain.
TWI November 04, 2018 at 22:33 #224801
But then how can happiness be experienced if it's not preceded by a period of unhappiness.
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 22:34 #224804
Quoting TWI
But then how can happiness be experienced if it's not precede by a period of unhappiness.


Indeed. It seems the two are intrinsically linked. How do you reach a stable equilibrium?
TWI November 04, 2018 at 22:36 #224807
Reply to Posty McPostface I don't think you can, it's the transition from one state to another that makes you happy. After that boredom sets in.
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 22:40 #224811
Quoting TWI
I don't think you can, it's the transition from one state to another that makes you happy. After that boredom sets in.


I never quite get bored. Isn't the world entertaining enough on its own?
TWI November 04, 2018 at 22:43 #224812
Reply to Posty McPostface Yeah - most of the time. Mind you I do enjoy a spot of ennui now and then.
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 22:43 #224813
Quoting TWI
Yeah - most of the time. Mind you I do enjoy a spot of ennui now and then.


Do you agree with Schopenhauer?
TWI November 04, 2018 at 22:53 #224821
Reply to Posty McPostface I had to Google him (ooer' missus) I would have to spend time digesting that. I do believe we use our brains to project the appearance of the objective world, if that will do as an answer!
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 22:54 #224822
Quoting TWI
I had to Google him (ooer' missus) I would have to spend time digesting that. I do believe we use our brains to project the appearance of the objective world, if that will do as an answer!


Haha. Well, I suppose one can always be content with one's life. Now, where's that boredom you spoke about?
TWI November 04, 2018 at 22:55 #224823
Reply to Posty McPostface It's starting to set in now! Contentment, I used to dread that when I was young, now I embrace it.
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 22:56 #224824
Quoting TWI
It's starting to set in now!


Oh dear. We must banish it forever. Care to join me?
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 22:57 #224825
The aesthetic realm is where I would want to reside. Forever in amazement with such things as math and geometry.
TWI November 04, 2018 at 23:00 #224828
Reply to Posty McPostface I reckon after we die we choose our existence, we can create whatever, (for ourself, not for others) But I suspect we eventually get the urge for the feeling of the unknown.
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 23:01 #224829
Quoting TWI
I reckon after we die we choose our existence, we can create whatever, (for ourself, not for others) But I suspect we eventually get the urge for the feeling of the unknown.


Oh, another one of those questions we can always ponder about; but, never fully know.
TWI November 04, 2018 at 23:03 #224833
Reply to Posty McPostface Reply to Posty McPostface Maybe we do know but have forgotten, temporarily.
TWI November 04, 2018 at 23:04 #224835
Ken Dodd reckoned it was a one man band.
BC November 04, 2018 at 23:08 #224841
Reply to Posty McPostface Happiness, like love, is--as you said--not something you can grab onto directly. One must approach happiness from the side, by living the kind of life that suits you. By itself, living that kind of life won't automatically produce happiness. So, having the kind of work one likes, having the kind of people in one's life that make one feel good, by having casual pursuits from which one can derive pleasure -- so on and so forth -- sets one up for happiness, but there is still one more step:

In order to be happy one needs to accept the deal happiness offers. Life probably won't provide happiness exactly on the terms one imagines would be perfect.

I know people who are unhappy because the deal life offered for happiness was like, 12% off from what they thought they needed.
TWI November 04, 2018 at 23:13 #224844
Happiness just - happens.
Shawn November 04, 2018 at 23:14 #224846
Quoting Bitter Crank
In order to be happy one needs to accept the deal happiness offers. Life probably won't provide happiness exactly on the terms one imagines would be perfect.


What deal is that?
TWI November 04, 2018 at 23:15 #224848
A warm well ordered workshop, with a lathe.
TWI November 04, 2018 at 23:16 #224849
Oh, and a pillar drill and compressor, sigh.
TWI November 04, 2018 at 23:18 #224850
I do get pissed off with my workshop sometimes when it's untidy, maybe happiness means not using it, just thinking about it.
Andrew4Handel November 05, 2018 at 02:07 #224877
Reply to Posty McPostface

I think happiness is hard to describe. It seems to be just a personal feeling of positivity and lightness or maybe elation.

But it does not seem to be evidence of value nor have a relationship with fact. Happiness does not prove that what your doing is good or that it has intrinsic value.

You could pursue happiness for its pure sensation but I don't know if you will find happiness by exploring reality or the truth.

It may be that you have to attain happiness independently of what is happening around you. I am not convinced that the facts of reality justify happiness. But it is a problem to say what emotions are justified in response to what if any.

It is possible that happiness may arise when you have achieved values and goals you have. Personally I don't think I can be happy unless I am in a situation of truth and authenticity. Overall I think it is quite elusive
BC November 05, 2018 at 04:18 #224884
Quoting Posty McPostface
What deal is that?


Whatever deal life offers that includes happiness. Like,

"Dear Posty McPostface:

"Here's the deal. You will go to college, major in philosophy, graduate quosdam laude (with some praise), and get a mid-level management job in a bio-engineering food factory where you will be totally unable to use your philosophy degree. In fact, the less you think philosophically, the happier you will be there. None-the-less, you will enjoy a nice, sophisticated, but fairly quiet life. You will have a happy life for 23 years. Soon after the 23rd year of bliss you will be run over by a robotic truck. Death will be pretty much instant. Once you are dead, you will stay dead. Finis. Sic Transit Gloria Mundi. Kaput.

"That's the deal. Enjoy college and enjoy the engineered food business. It will be voted 24th among the 100 best places to work in 2029.

Yours sincerely,

Life"

macrosoft November 05, 2018 at 05:04 #224888
Reply to Bitter Crank
That was awesome.
Happy way November 05, 2018 at 08:34 #224901
The happiest people in the world

Some international authorities have even designed a set of degrees they have called ‘the ladder of happiness’ in order to gauge which people are the happiest. They conducted several investigations and different questionnaires. The results were a surprise for everyone. It was found that the people of the United States are the most miserable and the most unhappy, and that that country came to stand at the bottom of the ladder, even though we are all aware of the extent of welfare which the individual American enjoys in their country.

It was also quite shocking to learn that the people of Nigeria obtained the highest degree on this ladder of happiness, thereby indicating that they are the happiest people in spite of the extreme poverty they are suffering!!! These are the results of a survey conducted by the American Newsweek magazine on the happiest peoples in the world .As mentioned above, on top of the list, which included sixty five countries, came the Nigerian people who are impoverished, most of whom are Muslims, followed by the peoples of Mexico, Venezuela and El Salvador, while the developed countries, on the other hand, to the surprise of the authors of that report, occupied a low position on their ladder of happiness.

We may reflect for a long time on the confession of the Americans who were interviewed in the report; that happiness is not about riches and money , which seems a surprising remark in such a pragmatic society that was founded on the extremist forms of capitalism. These results prompted the same magazine to investigate the phenomenon of the spread of religion in the United States .A new questionnaire was formed concerning the American’squest in search of happiness through casual meditation formulas, which are taken as doses for treating tired souls.

source: https://www.path-2-happiness.com/en/the-path-to-happiness-the-path-to-happiness-the-concept-of-happiness-and-its-reality
TWI November 05, 2018 at 09:46 #224911
When I was in my teens and twenties I used to swing between happiness and unhappiness, but as the years have rolled by that swing has evened out and now in my seventies it has become a mix of both, a sort of calmness consisting of contentment and acceptance, quite pleasant really. It does lack the adrenaline thrill but I realise that is a double edged sword, been there and done it

Funny thing is, during the changing moods in my adulthood I've never wanted to be different, even when I was depressed.
Moliere November 05, 2018 at 15:13 #224977
There is a distinction I like to draw between ecstasy or elation and happiness. I like to draw the distinction because I think that we tend to focus, as a culture, on ecstasy and elation while ignoring a different kind of happiness that is more stable, lasting, and still worthwhile. So if we are not elated the tendency is to say that we are not happy, and to obtain said elation we usually have some objective we want to fulfill or object we want to obtain, and we experience elation when we are victors, when we achieve, when we obtain or own what we want or are attached to.

Happiness as distinguished from elation, on the other hand, is more akin to contentment. We may not have everything we want, we may feel sad or bad about some things, but we are also doing alright. We can accept the bad with the good.

I'd say misery is the opposite of this kind of happiness -- where we are unable to accept our current conditions of life. But this differs from elation in that we can be miserable yet elated -- we can set unrealistic goals for ourselves, fulfill them, yet be attached to a new, harder, or higher goal. And hence be dissatsified and miserable with life as opposed to happy.

And we can be happy thought we are not elated -- we didn't get everything we wanted, but we can accept the situation we happen to have now.
schopenhauer1 November 05, 2018 at 15:35 #224981
Quoting Moliere
I'd say misery is the opposite of this kind of happiness -- where we are unable to accept our current conditions of life. But this differs from elation in that we can be miserable yet elated -- we can set unrealistic goals for ourselves, fulfill them, yet be attached to a new, harder, or higher goal. And hence be dissatsified and miserable with life as opposed to happy.

And we can be happy thought we are not elated -- we didn't get everything we wanted, but we can accept the situation we happen to have now.


I think it can be personality driven. But I don't see inherently how acceptance is a better mode.
Moliere November 05, 2018 at 15:39 #224982
Reply to schopenhauer1 Well, sure -- but then, nothing is inherently better or worse than anything. Things are better or worse in relation to a judgment we make, not because goodness inheres in a state of mind or object or action.

If someone wants to be miserable and elated, there's nothing you can do to persuade them to think or feel differently. Such changes only happen because a person changes. But the distinction should still be recognizable, all the same -- there's a meaningful difference.
schopenhauer1 November 05, 2018 at 15:45 #224984
Quoting Moliere
Well, sure -- but then, nothing is inherently better or worse than anything. Things are better or worse in relation to a judgment we make, not because goodness inheres in a state of mind or object or action.


I can agree with that.

Quoting Moliere
If someone wants to be miserable and elated, there's nothing you can do to persuade them to think or feel differently. Such changes only happen because a person changes. But the distinction should still be recognizable, all the same -- there's a meaningful difference.


Agreed. Though a lot of this is how you characterize it. Miserable might be the wrong word, and not capturing what is really going on by not accepting the situation.
Shawn November 05, 2018 at 18:27 #225041
Reply to Moliere

Sound advice. I wonder why people don't pay attention to it? They seem possessed with the idea of obtaining happiness over all else over the detriment of never attaining it.
Shawn November 05, 2018 at 18:29 #225042
Reply to schopenhauer1

Well, sure. Schopenhauer talked about happiness being a state of equanimity between conflicting desires. It's not a matter of preference than to want what is least painful.
WhiteNightScales November 06, 2018 at 03:21 #225275
Reply to Posty McPostface anything painful and that brings problem will be considered the
opposite of happiness Every single human wants to be happy but it is just chemicals in the brain that
brings that happiness The love of someone brings more happiness than anything else in the world
Shawn November 06, 2018 at 03:34 #225280
Reply to WhiteNightScales

Indeed. Now give me back my avatar, hehe.
Shamshir September 20, 2019 at 11:06 #331177
Quoting Wallows
I've been down this path. It mainly starts with believing that happiness is supremely good, and needs to be attained over all else.

Happiness doesn't need to be attained, but savoured.

The pursuit of happiness over all, denies happiness - as the pursuit of victory over all denies enjoyment from playing.
god must be atheist September 20, 2019 at 11:10 #331179
Quoting TWI
"Someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to"


Some things came easy to him, some harder. "Someone to love", well, he was popular.

Something to do... yes, he had he means and the motivation.

Something to look forward to... what brand new, novel experience do you give to a man who has everything?