''Love is a dog from Hell''

Bukowski also said "Politics Is Like Trying To Screw A Cat In The Ass". One doesn't have to take his book, poem, and story titles literally.

His "dog from hell" would lead one to think that he had really really tried to achieve love. I don't know whether he did or not. I'm not sure how someone would totally despise everything about love. Certainly a great deal of BS has been piled up around it.

Reply to Bitter Crank Bukowski had many flings with prostitutes in his day, and wrote about all the sublime experiences in ''Women''.
If i'm not mistaken he had a wife, so i'd assume he has fallen in love at least a bit perhaps.
I like to describe love as the cheapest and most corrosive street drug on the market. Sure, it makes you feel great, but if it's real, it comes with many burdens and sorrows. And could end up leaving us dead one day.

Reply to Albert Keirkenhaur Everything and anything will end up leaving us dead. The trick is to enjoy life before that happens.

The worst way to find love is to pursue it too eagerly, too persistently, too desperately. One should never go out "looking for someone to love"-- it's a recipe for disaster. One can be available for love, but being open and available doesn't mean that customers are going to come into the store.

Be kind, do good work, enjoy sex, and maybe love will happen.

I read a lot of Bukowski back in the early 1970s. Not much since. I enjoyed him.

Reply to Bitter Crank Ah I couldn't agree more. Most people, especially teenagers, chase after love like its something they need but instead it's ego-centric desire and lust. And not even mentioning that most relationships we see around us are rather sadly ''shadows" of what a loving bond should look like. Maybe it's just me, but when I see people in relationships, i can't help but get the feeling that these people are in it for themselves. Less and less are people taking their time in love and learning,

It's understandable that teenagers chase love like they do - hormones and all that. True enough, many people in relationships (and not just those sponsored by Eros) seem "disappointed". I don't know... maybe I don't get out enough, but many of the relationships I do observe do look authentic.

We humans are not quite the quality material we think we are. Only sometimes do we do do as well as we could in love -- I mean, be the kind of partners we could or need to be. Also, I think people cut out too soon. So the relationship isn't perfect; none of them are. We don't get perfection this side of the grave. Stick with it; act as decently as you can, for as much of your partner's or your own life. Yes, put up with something short of perfection. Don't feel loving all the time? Well, fake it, then. Take a more pragmatic approach, in other words.

Reply to Albert Keirkenhaur
Bukowski is one of my favorites. He did find love. Even a good marriage isn't perfect. People are people. People have issues. I'll agree that much of what gets called love is more like a drug than something sacred, but I assure you the real-enough thing is out there. I know first-hand and second-hand. I'd say that I was 30 before I learned how to negotiate the twists and turns. I like Jung's theory of the anima. I think men have to wrestle with that, perhaps especially men who want to live with women. We want them to be mystic doorways to adventure on the one hand and dependable quasi-mothers (safe as milk) on the other hand. You know, the "virgin/whore" complex and all of that.

Note that old Bukowski (in Women) didn't have an affair with a prostitute. He had troubled, sincere affairs at that time. But he wrote Women as a happily committed old man with a swimming pool and two Acuras in the driveway. If you read his last volume of letters, you'll see that he was good with the one he ended up with. He says therein that she was more responsible for keeping him alive than he was.

Reply to Hoo It's probably the little Kierkegaard on my shoulder, or my past experiences in love and loss, but to quote him roughly; "Marry and you will regret it. Don't marry and you'll regret it. Marry or don't marry, you will regret both.''
I really identify and understand his fear and anxiety with love. He ended a relationship with a beautiful woman because he knew that staying committed would mean nullifying the passion that had drawn him to her. Leading to boredom, one of- if not the worst form of despair in Kierkegaard's eyes.

I read one Bukowski book where he described his life as a postman. May have been his first. Really liked it.

On love, I offer this quote from the medieval poem Roman de la Rose:

"Love is a mental illness afflicting two persons of the opposite sex*. It comes on people through a burning desire, born of disordered perception, to embrace and to kiss and to seek carnal gratification."

Or for an even more cynical view, just read a book on evolutionary psychology.


(*A little out of date here).

Unfortunately, I don't read much, but this discussion is really interesting to me and I have had the same kind of thoughts regarding this thread as well in the past and present.

Once when I was in elementary school, some tall man came inside the class with a holy bible on his hand. At first I was like, great he is going to preach from the bible. However, he didn't, he surprised me. He asked the class, "What is the definition of love?" We obviously failed in pleasing the man with our answers, even a dictionary didn't pleased the man. He then stated, "No book defines love (implying by holding the bible with his hand that even the holy bible fails in defining love as well)" The man was old and did seem emotionally connected to what he was trying to teach us. He seemed to have be dissatisfied with something in his past years.

However, after seeing this thread I now ask myself is love actually an existing thing or is it really something beyond what texts can teach us of it? It seems more pessimistic to say that love is just a mere word, but what if love actually exist? Maybe the hope for love being true is what truly drives people to chase after love? Maybe hope is a part of what makes love tick?

Humans are such fragile creatures compared to other species in regards to our mental health if you think about it. Sure, other mammals can experience phobias and other mental illness; however, some species can't experience mental illnesses because they simply lack the intelligence in order to achieve that experience. Therefore, our intelligence probably plays a role in how love works too. In a way, we create or imagine love as how we want it to become. Without the proper intelligence, love doesn't exist and I'm not talking about IQ or intelligence for getting good grades in school, but the intelligence related to experiencing emotions and love.

Reply to WiseMoron

I think you nailed it right here: "Without the proper intelligence, love doesn't exist and I'm not talking about IQ or intelligence for getting good grades in school, but the intelligence related to experiencing emotions and love. "
I also think hope and trust play a central role. Hell, you have to love yourself even to believe in the love of another, to accept it. I think the word is used for a complex situation. I've been in a relationship for 20 years, now, and it is deeper and richer than ever. But it's not the same feeling that one might have toward a potential partner. That's probably for the best, for who can endure that kind of excitement indefinitely? Those jittery early feelings that obscure everything probably help us to make one of the most important choices of our lives. They force us to obsess so that in the end we can have a satisfying relationship that allows us to breath as individuals and pursue a career and profound friendships. In my view, what gets called "true love" involves building a life together. It's not just a feeling (feelings fluctuate), it's a partnership. There's a little part of you that remains alone. No one is exactly like you, so no one will ever understand you completely and utterly. But this isn't a need and in fact some ineradicable solitude has its beauty. Modern love is watching Netflix together and looking over to share a joke. Young lovers look at one another constantly. Established lovers both look out toward the world together.

I think romantic love is a necessary delusion.

Reply to WiseMoron

I don't know about you guys, but when I see pictures like this, (especially elephants in particular) I can't help but feel that love really does exist. Romantic love is definitely the delusion.

"I think romantic love is a necessary delusion."
However, when does romantic love turn into true love then? Romantic love does come before the type of love that lasts an entire life time.

Reply to WiseMoron True love is being accepted in pathetically vulnerable states. For instance anyone can have sex in a romantic relationship. Sex becomes ''making love'' when the vulnerability and preciousness of the scenario is considered and deeply admired.