You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

Free until commanded

Teofasa October 03, 2018 at 18:06 6600 views 20 comments
There is an android, a human-like robot with artificial intelligence and emotions on human level. Basically, it looks, feels and thinks like a human, but is a machine.

This android has a will of its own and is capable of creative thought. It will act based on its own values and desires, and can not be commanded by a human, living totally free, unless a switch is flipped. It cannot resist the switch being flipped, and if it is flipped, it will obey every order without question.

Is the android free? Does it deserve freedom? Does it deserve human rights?

Comments (20)

DingoJones October 03, 2018 at 18:41 #217699
It is as free, deserving of freedom and deserving of human rights as a human.
The fact that it has a switch changes nothing. Humans have switches too. They are biological rather than mechanical, but there are drugs and physical alterations made to the brain that can rob someone of their ability to resist commands, or at least hinder it (though eventually I imagine we will know the brain well enough it would function exactly like the switch or switches of the android, of course naturally we know the androids switches because we built them.).
I would turn the question right around, why WOULDN’T it have the same freedom
And rights as a human?
Rank Amateur October 03, 2018 at 18:47 #217701
Reply to DingoJones can we put it in jail if it kills someone with the switch on? with the switch off? Can we put the switch thrower in jail if the switch was on? Can we throw the manufacture in jail if the switch was off?
DingoJones October 03, 2018 at 18:58 #217703
Reply to Rank Amateur
If it is switched into “cant resist commands” mode then the one giving the commands is responsible fir its actions, if the switch is in “same as human” mode then it is responsible for its own actions to the same degree a human would be.
The manufacturer would be responsible for their product in the same way as its other products. If the switch was unreliable, easy to hack or otherwise dangerous then they would have some part to play in assigning responsibility for any actions it commits. I would imagine they would have a lot less responsibility if the android was in” same as human” mode, just like a knife manufacturer bears little responsibility when someone stabs themselves or someone else.
ssu October 03, 2018 at 19:01 #217704
Yep. Machines need machine rights. Of course. Those are evil bigots who think otherwise. Obviously you need to put androids to jail if they kill someone. You simply cannot scrap them. That would be so inhumane.
Teofasa October 03, 2018 at 19:02 #217705
Reply to DingoJones "As free as a human." This can be interpreted in two ways.
1. Humans are free, and if the android is like a human, it is free too
2. The android has the exact same level of freedom as humans. This doesn't mean that it's free, because the way you talk about the "switch" on humans makes it seem that at any moment, freedom can be taken from humans as well. If we say that fragile freedom is not real freedom, then no one is free. If real freedom is still allowed to disappear suddenly, then both humans and the android are free.
DingoJones October 03, 2018 at 19:12 #217708
Reply to Teofasa
Yes, I specifically kept the reference to “same as human” so that my response would cover anyones seperate thoughts on human free will. Whatever your views on human free will are, my answer will still apply. As i noted, the switch doesnt make a difference. When it is functioning as a human, we treat it like a human. When it isnt, we do not.
Teofasa October 03, 2018 at 19:14 #217710
What I also want to see peoples thoughts on: is it immoral to flip the freedom switch?
DingoJones October 03, 2018 at 19:22 #217713
Reply to Teofasa
Is it wrong to rob a human of its freedom? That is what you are doing if you flip that switch.
Teofasa October 03, 2018 at 19:25 #217716
Reply to DingoJones That's how I see it, too
Rank Amateur October 03, 2018 at 19:43 #217718
Reply to DingoJones really interesting - I am not sure if treating a machine as a moral actor is an elevation of the machine, or a demotion of the human.
DingoJones October 03, 2018 at 19:54 #217720
Well, ONE of us needs to play devils advocate here...
So, what dominion does one have over its own creations? When a human produces a child, the child is subject to the will of the parent, sometimes even the state. Why would it be different for this android? When you create a car or electronic device, it is yours to do with as you please, likewise with the android.
Also, rights are something granted, by citizenship of a nation or just as a member of mankind by other humans. If it is decided that something you created has no rights, then it doesnt have rights. On what basis would the creator be obligated to grant such rights? In addition, the creator would be morally obligated in that instance to NOT create the android, knowing that he would have essentially created a slave since rights may not be granted to his android.
ssu October 03, 2018 at 21:53 #217744
Quoting DingoJones
When a human produces a child, the child is subject to the will of the parent, sometimes even the state. Why would it be different for this android?

Your children aren't your property. They as humans have rights from birth. Machines tend to be someone's property.

Knowing humans and history, basically androids would have to be in a position to fight for their rights. Human rights and the abolition of slavery didn't happen without a long political fight. Philosophical views did play a part, but in the end these have been political decisions.
DingoJones October 03, 2018 at 22:05 #217747
Quoting ssu
Your children aren't your property. They as humans have rights from birth. Machines tend to be someone's property.


I didnt say they were property. I didnt say or imply the children didnt have rights, i said they only have rights that we grant them, like all people.
BrianW October 03, 2018 at 22:22 #217751
Reply to Teofasa

Why presume that free will should mean absolute will? Why couldn't it refer to a will that is free to overcome whatever limitations there are provided it chooses to and knows how. This would allow it to be free but still limited in some ways.
andrewk October 03, 2018 at 23:04 #217754
Reply to Teofasa I can think of at least two real life examples of this.
1. Ella Enchanted, who is under a spell that forces her to do whatever anybody commands her to do.

2. The Imperius Curse (one of the three Unforgivable Curses), which puts the subject under the direct control of the one who cast the curse.

In the explanation and discussion of those cases there is no question that the free will of the individual had been constrained, and that that is a bad thing.

A somewhat different case is the Ludovico Technique, where aversion therapy is used to control violent impulses of the subject. Again there is no doubt that the subject's free will has been constrained, but opinion is more divided in this case as to whether that is a bad thing.
praxis October 03, 2018 at 23:31 #217758
Reply to Teofasa

I realize this is a thought experiment but can't get over the contradiction that if the android were truly free it would be free to have the switch removed. If it's a machine designed and produced by humans it should be a simple matter. So the answer seems to be that the android is not free by design.
BB100 October 12, 2018 at 16:43 #219931
No, for Human Rights are based upon the idea that the Human race as a species is entitled to the ability to not to be killed by our own and our property taken without due process. pretty much a system of ours that only applies to ones species. Since an android is a machine, it is not a species and not obligated or upon obligation to be entitled to such codes.
TheMadFool October 12, 2018 at 16:53 #219934
Quoting Teofasa
Is the android free? Does it deserve freedom? Does it deserve human rights?


This scenario has a human counterpart viz. [I]slavery[/i]. Slaves obeyed their masters very much like the android would. We could say their masters flipped the switch of freedom to off in their slaves.

Should we then have continued enslaving people?

The capacity for freedom in slaves made them deserving of freedom. So, the android, capable of experiencing and enjoying liberty, should be freed.
BB100 October 12, 2018 at 18:13 #219947
Reply to TheMadFool No, for Human Rights are based upon the idea that the Human race as a species is entitled to the ability to not to be killed by our own and our property taken without due process. pretty much a system of ours that only applies to ones species. Since an android is a machine, it is not a species and not obligated or upon obligation to be entitled to such codes.
DingoJones October 12, 2018 at 20:08 #219963
Quoting TheMadFool
The capacity for freedom in slaves made them deserving of freedom. So, the android, capable of experiencing and enjoying liberty, should be freed.


I really like that phrasing. The capacity for freedom is what makes the freedom something deserved.
Thats really the only reason you need. I would take it further and say that the capacity for freedom is an equal measure of how much freedom is deserved (owed?). This very nicely takes care of freedom as it exists in human relationships (the way we treat our kids for exemple, what freedoms a parent should restrict and ehen they must let go).
Another stepfurther and you answer many ethical questions as well from that simple sentiment, thanks for that.