Some Metaphysics: Time and Truth
I’ve been thinking about the relationship between time, God, and us. It's a working model, but what I've come up with is that we, in the physical world, live out every moment as it comes. There is the argument that God is omniscient, and that if he wasn't omniscient then he would have to know what is happening before it happens, but what if we live every moment as it comes? Would that take away from God’s omniscience?
I don’t think it would. Maybe, if we break down time into film cells – all events lined up – then each event could have multiple possibilities. So next to each cell is a million billion different possibilities of what could happen next. We choose which one we are going to do, and God knows all the possibilities but doesn't know exactly which one we are going to choose. He hopes that the choices we make lead us to Him, but He gives us free-will to make those decisions for ourselves; we are not predestined for heaven or hell. So, besides the time-line we follow, there are the multitude of multiple time-lines we could or could have chosen from which create potential multiple universes. God is still beyond time and these other universes; He exists in some other plane that oversees all this but the division between these planes are still permeable where God can still add some touches to the world here and there.
There are many other aspects to the model, but a big one is Truth. Truth is something to be sought after, but what I don't know is whether Truth is what God wants us to know or God Himself. Ancient philosophers claimed that our goal was to seek out Truth, but I wonder whether Truth is God.
Any thoughts?
I don’t think it would. Maybe, if we break down time into film cells – all events lined up – then each event could have multiple possibilities. So next to each cell is a million billion different possibilities of what could happen next. We choose which one we are going to do, and God knows all the possibilities but doesn't know exactly which one we are going to choose. He hopes that the choices we make lead us to Him, but He gives us free-will to make those decisions for ourselves; we are not predestined for heaven or hell. So, besides the time-line we follow, there are the multitude of multiple time-lines we could or could have chosen from which create potential multiple universes. God is still beyond time and these other universes; He exists in some other plane that oversees all this but the division between these planes are still permeable where God can still add some touches to the world here and there.
There are many other aspects to the model, but a big one is Truth. Truth is something to be sought after, but what I don't know is whether Truth is what God wants us to know or God Himself. Ancient philosophers claimed that our goal was to seek out Truth, but I wonder whether Truth is God.
Any thoughts?
Comments (13)
This is me thinking about the idea of (a) god. How are any of supposed to really know anything about God, (the idea of (a)) god, or anything for that matter if we don't try to think up in our limited understanding of anything spiritual (if such a realm exists) a model to fit such ideas?
Are we allowed axioms? If yes:
Axiom: God is not omniscience
Then even God cannot know if there is another greater god than him in existence somewhere. If God ever meets a greater god, the outcome is as follows:
- Greater god is evil, our god is good, our god is punished
- Greater god is evil, our god is evil, our god is punished
- Greater god is good, our god is evil, our god is punished
- Greater god is good, our god is good, our god rewarded
The only satisfactory outcome is if our god is Good. God was intelligent enough to create the universe so he will have worked out the above and hence will be a good god.
We can then look at the state of the world and additionally deduce God is not omnipotent...
'God is not omniscience' is a good axiom IMO. A self-evident truth: Its not possible to know everything. For example all the digits of pi. So I think there was sufficient grounds for my argument.
But perhaps you mean that the existence of God is not well grounded? There is no hard evidence either way for/against existence of God, so people have degrees of belief:
- Some Christians claim with 100% certainty that God exists (rather irrational IMO).
- An agnostic might believe the existence of God is 50% likely
- A atheist might perhaps be only 5% convinced of God's existence
- An Uber-Atheist might claim a 0% chance of God's existence (rather irrational IMO).
Even with only a 5% chance of God's existence, discussions over the nature of God are still worthwhile and productive. There is quite a lot you can deduce about God especially if you drop the traditional definitions (3Os). For example: God is not male or female as God was not the product of bi-sexual reproduction. As a unisexual its possible he/it could jealous of humans as he can't have sex or masturbate.
I conjecture it is likely that God exists; that's not the same as belief.
I think there are different ways of learning about God:
- Through his works (the universe)
- Through ourselves (intelligent creatures share common traits).
- Through metaphysical deductions.
So we can conjecture, for example, he is an keen astronomer and he likes to do things on a grand scale. The universe seems to run like clockwork without his involvement so he's probably quite hands-off.
It is knowledge of a hypothetical. I see no problem with that; aliens are hypothetical but we can still make deductions about their nature?
I noticed it when we discussed infinity that you could not take on board new ideas... I think you are having a similar issue with the possible existence of God? Do you believe God does not exist with 100% certainty? That would take an act of belief of staggering irrationality. People with an open mind don't close down the possibilities like that.
I was not; if you recall, I considering the attributes of God (should he exist).
Quoting tim wood
I'm mostly a materialist so any God should be material (and finite... you lost that debate BTW). The only type of non-material God I'd allow is God as the root user of the the Matrix-Style simulation we are in. But then in that case, it would be we who are immaterial and God is still material (as I assert). I'm not big on spiritualism.
Powerful and intelligent but not omnipotent or omniscient. Unless of course we are in a simulation, in which case God's powers could approach on omnipotent/omniscient.
Timeless and permanent. Both dead and alive at the same time (from our perspective).
I think that existence is well defined and well understood, is far from the truth.