What is 'the answer' to depression?
Depression is a self-reinforcing loop. Depression entails metacognitive beliefs about one's self and the world. Often, the beliefs are cognitive distortions according to CBT. But, instead of the self-reinforcing loop that depression is, is there any means of providing an answer towards depression? I'm not talking about remedying those cognitive distortions with positive feedback or addressing them, and they are incessant and almost never-ending.
Is there a metacognitive belief that one ought to keep in mind when facing depression?
Is there some underlying theme that can be addressed with a question of one facing depression?
Is there a metacognitive belief that one ought to keep in mind when facing depression?
Is there some underlying theme that can be addressed with a question of one facing depression?
Comments (48)
What has helped me is this metacognitive attitude: Depression is nature’s way of telling you there’s something wrong.
Figure out what that is, and then you can directly, enactively, address the problem. This may be an oversimplification, but this by simply choosing between flight from the problem (and the best means of so doing) or fighting the problem (and the best means of so doing).
Otherwise, depression seems to me to be an unconsciously held certainty that there’s an insurmountable obstacle in the way. One that results in a consciously experienced blockage in motivation, often accompanied by great sorrow—again, this for reasons that are not consciously discerned.
With this as context, then, the more the given underlying problem—often in the plural—has been ignored, the deeper within the unconscious mind it becomes buried. And the harder it is to bring up into conscious awareness. At which point, a drastic change in behaviors—either consciously willed or else also assisted by prescription medication—can then serve as a break from the underlying issue. If the underlying issue is not of immediate pertinence to one’s life, then it will start decaying (a neuroscience term for when synaptic connections between neurons are not used and begin wilting and, eventually, because of this, eventually no longer physically exists—being instead replaced by other, new, now functioning synaptic connections).
If the depression is, for example, caused by a personal guilt—since this doesn’t apply to most here: say, that a woman began partying with booze when finding out that she became pregnant because she didn’t want to face the facts at the time, and then maybe had a miscarriage in the third trimester—then the depression could be resolved via meaningful self-forgiveness (such as by learning from the mistake and, maybe, helping others not to repeat it). If, on the other hand, the depression is, for example, caused by contextual factors such as our global warming, then making this explicit and consciously deciding to either do something about it (however small) or else deciding to live with the foreseeable consequences will get one to overcome the unconscious impediment.
And somewhere in-between all this you could hold onto Nietzsche’s’ statement that what does not kill you will only make you stronger. (There’s also the Neon Flux version of “what does not kill you maims”—but this one’s likely to not help out in this situation, unless one’s into dark humor and can have a good laugh about it. :joke: )
But I’m no psychiatrist. Still, hopefully some of this might help out.
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apropos, a joke about how things can always be worse: Guy gets a call form the doctor. Doctor says, "You're analysis is in. I've some bad news and some worse news for you. Which do you want to hear first?" The guy says, "Tell me the bad news." Doc says, "The results indicate that you only have 24 hours left to live." The guy is shocked, angered, and asks, "How can things possibly be worse?". The doctor replies, "Well, I forgot to tell you about it yesterday."
:smile:
What if the depression is hereditary? Meaning, in the genetic makeup of the individual. Does one just have to cope with it then?
Well, again, I'm no psychiatrist. I also don't hold onto the ontological notion of (full) biological determinism, believing there's always some "nurture" involved in our behavioral phenotypes. This then makes the issue of heredity more complex: for then there is both some measure of biology at play as well as implicit learning, especially during the formative years.
To the extent that the depression is a biologically determinate property, where its physically caused, then physical remedies in the form of proper pharmaceuticals will be the proper remedy.
Still, my non-expert belief is that what we biologically inherit are predispositions to, and not the actual result. Any plant will grow one way when held in a closet and another when held in sunlight. Some are more predisposed to this or that ailment as a result of interactions with stressful experiences; don't know who wouldn't break (or, at least, bend) given sufficient stressors. But we're each predisposed to this differently. For example, we likely do inherit a risk gene of some sort, but this doesn't predetermine who we will be. Same with clinical depression--again, in my non-expert opinion.
Never tried that. Does that work for you?
Oh, you start to get pretty energetic the more empty you get, and more tired the more full you get. There are some studies that suggest that it works on depression.
No, I don't have a problem with depression.
I think part of the problem is dwelling on it, also. That is when it becomes a self-reinforcing loop - because not only are you depressed, you're depressed about being depressed. I think part of the mental knack is being able to develop some detachment from it - which I know must be a lot more difficult from inside the condition that from outside it.
It's just that when you're in that grey state, everything is grey. I know that's what it feels like to me. I am very aware when a negative affect starts, and I know from experience that when I'm in that state, then I won't be able to see anything to be cheerful about. But the one thing I do know is that it will pass.
This is an ongoing discussion we're having in the On Disidentification thread if you care to join us. In that thread, I attempted to disidentify from the condition and live by thinking that "I have depression, and not I am depressed." My trial ended with me feeling angry or frustrated that I still feel the symptoms of depression even if I didn't think I have the condition.
I suspect endogenous problems like depression, are very deeply embedded in one's persona, so it can be difficult to disidentify from or become detached.
Well, I do feel the symptoms every day, so I guess if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it must be a duck. I don't see how you can dissociate from that feeling of bleakness or apathy.
Just perused the other thread. Since I’ve already replied on this one, I'll add to what Wayfarer said here:
There’s a different in ordinary cognition between, “I am angry/sad/jealous/etc.,” and “I feel angry/sad/jealous/etc.” The former captures that which you as first-person point of view momentarily is, what you as a conscious awareness is constituted of. The later captures what you as a conscious awareness introspectively apprehends as other than the you which is so apprehending.
If I feel envy within myself, I then have a choice as to whether to shun this emotion/mood till it vanishes from my total being or, else, to actually become envious in relation to that concerned. If, however, I am envious, this is a matter of fact that I have no choice over for as long as I so remain. Here, all choices I that I can make will by default be made by envious me.
As others have mentioned, to go from “I am depressed” to “I feel depressed” in a sustained way will take a good degree of cognitive work. And holding onto the belief that “I am depressed because it is how I am genetically; because I am ontologically predetermined to so be” is utterly antithetical to the process. Buddhism often has quite a lot to say about such forms of mediation in which one makes all experiences that which one in some way apprehends as an awareness—thereby experientially establishing the given awareness as ontologically independent of all which it otherwise will be constituted at any particular moment as a “self”. Note that within Buddhism, this is intended to be transformative in what one construes to be ontological, to be real, in regards to personal being. It is after all part and parcel of the ontological position of Buddhism. This process of meditation, however, is neither quick nor easy. It requires effort and perseverance. Still—in parallel to feeling envious v. being envious—until one experiences the “I feel myself to be depressed” reality one will perpetually experience the “I ontologically am depressed” reality: In the first there is a cognitive choice as to what to do about experiencing oneself to be depressed; in the second there is no such choice to speak of, for the depressed individual is who is doing the choosing by default.
Imagine an either obese or muscle-challenged individual wanting to become fit and muscular, but not having any will or desire to engage in any of the exercises that are required to so become, then asking, “so what else can I do to become muscular?”
If this is harsh, so be it: To what extent do you care about your own predicament of depression?
You want to hold onto the believed truth that “I can’t do anything meaningful to change it, for it is part of what I am” and, in this case, your held belief shall be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Believing otherwise—as with physical exercise to become muscular—also requires the needed effort and perseverance. Be this via dis-identification or some other means. Thought about action is not the action itself.
Thanks, that makes sense. So, in my own words, would you call this a metacognitive state of mind that Buddhism enforces, through the practice of mindfulness, compassion, and altruism? One then refers back to this state of mind, when dealing with depression?
Yes, of course.
There's the caveat, thought, that Buddhism is Buddhism and, thereby, not materialism. :wink:
Word games. Like "I am an AIDS survivor" or "I am living with cancer". "I am not a "victim". That's nice, but you still have AIDS, cancer, whatever. As far as being a victim or not... how much good has having AIDS or cancer done for you? Are they handing Nobel prizes out for that now? Yeah, they're a victim.
Whatever helps, they say.
You are "living with depression!" An inspiring achievement.
Look, sarcasm aside (sarcasm is a symptom of deflected depression) no good advice is going to supply a magic cure. Chances are, you're going to continue to feel those symptoms every day, until you stop feeling those symptoms (I'm not suggesting it's your choice and I don't know when, how, or why they will stop). "Living with depression" means you feel depressed (various symptoms, behaviors -- like perseverating, self-criticism, etc.). Living with depression means that you still have to get up, take a shower, eat breakfast, go to work or whatever it is one does, have lunch, chat with friends, philosophize on America's LEADING PHILOSOPHY FORUM, for which some of the honor goes to YOU, watch the evening news, read the paper, walk the dog (if there is a dog), clean the cat box (if there is a cat), do laundry, fix dinner, wash dishes, read for a while, go to bed and stare at the ceiling till 3:45 a.m.
Repeat. Repeat despite life seeming, some days, like one pile of shit after another.
I might have recovered from depression, or maybe I am merely experiencing nice hypomania. Bipolar patients rave about nice hypomania. I don't really know for sure. Maybe I am experiencing a brief respite before it returns, much worse than before. Time will tell.
All I can say for sure is that one can live with depression. Not being, having, and experiencing depression is better; so is not having heart disease, cancer, AIDS, malaria, TB, stroke, COPD, arthritis, blindness, deafness, alzheimers, and a few dozen other diseases.
I was about 37 when I first experienced depression. It came on very suddenly after slipping on ice one fine winter day while I was out for a run. My fairly strenuous exercise program came to an abrupt and screeching halt. Depression descended like a lead brick. The value of my stocks plummeted. I don't think my mental health was entirely on the level before age 37. I sometimes engaged in behaviors which were counterproductive, harbored a few counterproductive (but highly valued) ideas, hung around with people who were dysfunctional and had a high tolerance for other people's dysfunctions. I created some of my problems, and some of them were created for me. But... life went on. I got up, ate breakfast, went to work, yada yada yada. On many days I felt like killing somebody (excellent candidates for murder are a dime a dozen) but I didn't, and the mortgage got paid off, the house got painted, the dog got walked, and so on and so forth.
Maybe you will/should/can't help but/ take the above as depressing. If you do, you do. What I mean to say, "Keep going. It's what people do." (When you're going through hell, keep going. There's a sucky CW song attached to that quote, I'll spare you.)
One would think that after so much thought and so many threads, that some answer might come to my mind. Yet, here I am still pondering over this issue. Won't seem to go away. I'm getting pretty darn tired as it is so I hope someone else can chime in.
You can probably rationally come to see certain ideas as distortions, and that may help somewhat, but in the end it's probably more an emotional problem. Thought's are tied into that and probably reïnforce it, but at base it's emotional. If a baby or child cries or is sad you don't try to rationaly talk him out of that... you engage with him on some emotional level.
I don't know what your social situation is, but relating on a regular basis with close friends, family and spouse could probably help some. And if that is no option, a therapist can be a proxy for that. Or maybe the right meds if it's something more genetical...
I do belief a good social enviroment is key to long term mental health.
As if it is an activity, something one does to press down some other even more intolerable feeling. Anger, greed, frustration, hatred, perhaps. Which is to say that it has a function, such that one cannot manage without it, and this makes it 'incurable', because the cure is worse than the disease.
I have learned, probably at a very early stage, that my strong feelings are dangerous - mother will abandon me, my love is of the forbidden kind, my anger will cause the family and the world to fall apart - so whatever in my life excites my passion, I learn to avoid. i become afraid of myself, and thus afraid of all meaningful, intense relationships.
How do I come to learn, how can a therapist help me to discover, that my feelings do not destroy me or the world? It is difficult, precisely because I avoid intense relationships, and de-press intense feelings. So the closer the therapist comes, the harder I push him away and my own feelings down - thus the more depressed I become. "you see? Nothing helps." I need to go to the place I most want to avoid.
So here is a safe exercise, that requires no therapist or equipment, and which does the opposite of what everyone else is telling you. Find a quiet place, lie on the floor, and pretend to be dead. Feel the intensity of depression; nobody cares, least of all you, that you are lying dead in some corner. Life goes on elsewhere, and nothing is happening to you. My own experience is that it takes about 20 minutes of being dead to arrive at a definitive 'bugger this, I've got better things to do'. It might take you longer or shorter. Then go and find someone to talk to and care about.
1) Bleakness and apathy = thought.
2) Turn down volume of thought.
3) The intensity of bleakness and apathy are reduced.
Does it make sense that the low energy obstacle must be addressed before there is much point in talking about any kind of constructive plan?
I infer that there isn't an answer because it seems everyone's story is different. You just have to experiment.
Is the answer ever so straightforward? It seems to me, that depression is under layers of thought and memory that isolating the cause is never so obvious.
Quoting unenlightened
I lay in bed most of the day, so I know how intense the depression is. It isn't intolerable, just persistent apathy and lack of interest in things.
How could someone tell me about a feeling they refuse to have?
Quoting Posty McPostface
That's not apathetic, that's making yourself comfortable in your misery, and that's why it's tolerable. At the risk of provoking some feeling in you, I will point out that it is self-indulgent.
I mean, it seems mean... but this seems completely right to me. Almost certainly on account of the things you're doing or not doing... and almost certainly not due to "chemical imbalances", or just because some people feel random ways that have nothing to do with the things they're doing or not doing...
It's obvious and simple stuff. You know... in the factual and causal department, but as they say, the truth isn't complicated, people are.
Practical steps - get physically active and fit, find a fitness coach or a program of action. Also some life coaching might be beneficial. Don't spend time thinking about it 'gee I wonder what that would be like'. You know the Nike ad: Just Do It.
Personally, I think that one should break down, and admit the truth to themselves, and take responsibility. I think that helps, and has helped much more than anything else has. Though, it certainly is different, the causes and what to do about them.
I don't know that they help. A lot of people I know are medicated, and even though they are at a higher mood, they still act perplexed why they cannot sleep well while drinking coffee and pop all day... they stop people from complaining, and feeling bad, by drugging them... are they helping? Counseling besides the kind that just allows you to vent, and doesn't offer a solution at all, but just listens, does that fix them? Unless it gets them to change their life, and habits, then I doubt it. How one gets to the point where they do that is complicated, but I think that the facts are, that that is always what needs to be done, and entertaining in any sense that it doesn't, can't be helpful.
All because someone "helps" for a living, doesn't indicate to me that they're helping at all.
Personally, I don't think that depression is motivating enough, particularly if medicated, I think that one has to succumb to feeling worse before they can feel better. Their situation must become intolerable, or why else bother to change? Maybe one has to be faced with "die or change" for real change to occur... but it seems that most don't live or die, they just float.
Of course, but you can have reasons for not doing that, and sometimes those reasons can be subjectively compelling. Again that's where skilled counsellors are really helpful. (And sometimes depression really does seem to be endogenous, which is like the psychic equivalent of anti-biotic resistant bacteria.)
I was lucky to enrol in an awareness-training group when I was in my twenties. Helped a lot, but seeing people coming to terms with their buried memories (colloquialised as 'elephants') was an eye-opening experience.
But where in modern culture is that taught any more? I think it's generally not. That was actually one of the functions of culture proper. Drama enacted the mythos, philosophy as a form of psychology. But modern culture is in such a state of decay that nothing like this is taught any more, you have to seek it out yourself.
One of the mantras that helped me grow up was 'my life has been a whole series of crises, most of which never occurred.' ;-)
I think that you're kinder than I am to maintain the first half. I think that expediency is what is sought. The medical industry doesn't treat causes, but symptoms. You come in and complain about symptoms, and they deal with those symptoms, the fastest, cheapest ways possible. Chemical lobotomy tends to be most popular.
So, I wouldn't agree that they are very helpful. I think that once something turns from charity and humanitarianism to profit, and corporatism, it becomes corrupt. The incentives for doing it vastly shift. As for possible endemia, perhaps, but a gross minority, particularly when you can just look at their health and circumstances and behavior and pretty easily infer that they are less than ideal.
Only in the arts, it seems to me, but art isn't mythos anymore, it's mere entertainment -- and when it disagrees with millennia old myths, and misrepresents causality, and the affects of behavior by any type of person playing any type of person without appreciation of the affects of life-style and character on one's appearance, it becomes the worst propaganda, and confusion generator the world has ever seen. The opposite of what it once was... though there are still some diamonds buried in the rough.
Sometimes I do fear that these are the end times... lol soon spirit will die entirely, and AI will take right over. The humanity!
I don't feel much at all. I'm on two mood stabilizers and an antidepressant, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. My emotions feel muted to some extent. I feel as though it's hopeless to try and figure out the root cause. It's deeply embedded into me in some sense and I have no way of reaching it. That's I think a predicament many depressives face. Of having their depression so deeply intertwined with their being that they can't separate the two. This again reminds me of disidentification and its perhaps use.
Quoting unenlightened
Seems to me like apathy. I just don't want to do anything. It's not dysphoric though. More like you said earlier, about a general decrease in affective mood or engagement with the world.
Wish it were that easy. I suppose I better stop ruminating over it as much as I do.
That's interesting. So, things have to get worse to get better in the end?
But do you.
Do I what?
Depression is the manifest form of self loathing or self dislike, it is the conscious or unconscious yearning for an alternative self, one that seems empirically unattainable. If the reasoning or deeper motives behind the dislike AND the yearning are not understood, the depression is impossible to treat via a metacogntitive approach, as you have suggested.
Because: Depression is the consequence of an established dysfunctional metacognition upon the fundamental dialogue between the pure essence, the entire truth of the self, and the external world that (appears to) contain that self.
One cannot think appropriately about the 'depressive thinking' if indeed the first order realm (the dialogue between self and reality) is not properly understood.
This secondary realm of depressive thought exists as a meta-cognitive state in that one is already thinking negatively about ones thinking. The application or process evolution of the depressive feelings, is a metacognition of the primary (self-reality) dialogue. The depression is a metacognition in that it is thought upon the interface between reality and the self.
This dialogue produces 'evidence' that is used to logically to initiate and or potentiate the depressive state vis; I am a bad person, I am unkind dishonest, unworthy, I do not fit in the world, I dislike people and the company of others, I do not wish to engage with the world today, life is pointless, meaningless and worthless....etc. All this sentiment arises out of a dysfunctional metacognition upon the dialogue between the self and the sensory inputs that are arriving from outside the self. One can assume that the primary inputs are de facto intact (as long as one is not having delusions) and therefore it is not the input but rather the primary self that is being misunderstood by the depressive. Vis a poorly constructed secondary (meta) notion of self.
One has called this thinking 'ones depression' and therefore the recognition of ones depression as an undesired experience, confines the depressive dialogue with himself/herself to one of a metacognition upon a poorly defined primary self, as that self is perceived to interact with external reality.
The solution is not to create a meta-meta-cognition but rather to collapse the first meta-cognition upon the primary dialogue between self and reality, and this can only be effected through guided or self directed introspective analysis of the self. (Not necessarily of the Freudian variety)
If the metacognised reasoning is exposed via successful introspection or analysis, they can be encountered and potential rationalized in keeping with the survival instincts. And this will go some distance to collapsing the initial metacognition, as depression is contrary to survival and is self destructive.
Once the initial reasonings (within the primary metacognition are rationalised) they almost invariably become weakened, and less effective as causative logical points around which the depression orbits simply because in recognition they are then exposed to reason, and reason is generally in conformity with the instinct for survival.
Reason tells us that we have rights to live and be happy, if the exposed reasonings at the base of the self loathing/depression are subjected to logical impartial reason, they invariably begin to weaken.
It is OK to fail
It is OK to be gay
It is ok to be "just" a waitress
It is ok if ones parents consider one to be a failure... etc
It is ok to be the truth of the self.
The primary dialogue between the self and input from without, must be subjected to a logical analysis by the self and in doing so the depressive metacognition of this dialogue will then begin to collapse. One engages with the world in harmony with self. One begins to find peace.. not with the world but first with the self.
Know thyself, and then know thyself some more... wisdom is to be at peace with the world.
M
Yes, I would wish that it were easier to get out of my rut. But, as I mentioned before, my depression seems endogenous and deeply buried in my psyche. I feel somewhat hopeless about getting better, and what's left for me is to cope with it.
Wayfarer said it. "I was lucky to enrol in an awareness-training group when I was in my twenties. Helped a lot, but seeing people coming to terms with their buried memories (colloquialised as 'elephants') was an eye-opening experience."
But what is far far worse than what others and the world has done to you, is what you've done to them. Those are the memories that are buried deepest. Imagine the most hatred and vitriol you've ever mustered at anyone, disrespect, distrust, and disregard being felt about you. Not by anyone else, where you can ignore it, or tell yourself things to feel better, but by you, and inescapable.
Yes, I think that you have to feel bad enough about yourself to end it all... but, you know, hopefully in the change and become a different person way, rather than literally kill yourself.
But, what about disidentification? Doesn't that seem like a solution to the meta-cognitive depressive realm? I feel as though, disidentification is a stepping stone to getting better in terms of replacing a distorted metacognition with some other more useful one. I don't believe one can completely disidentify with anything, just that it can serve as the kick-start switch to finding alternative or better metacognitions to abide by.
But, what about disidentification?Doesn't that seem like a solution to the meta-cognitive depressive realm?
No NO NO!
I suspect that your depression is getting worse since you have contaminated your wonderfuly capable and kind brain with this muck.
I will say it again for the last time.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO DISIDENTIFY WITH YOURSELF
On the contrary.
I suspect that you quite simply do not know things about yourself. (Rumsfeldian things... things that you don't know that you know) You need to figure these things out and embrace them because THEY do not really matter (and unless they are criminal things) they need to be embraced!
You have a great mind and you are (it seems) a kind person. Remove the offending digit from the dark place, find out who and what you are and embrace it, (warts and all) before you are old, or before your depression deprives you of more life!
Would the real slim-shady please stand up!
M
It's always been there. Just haven't addressed it enough as of late. I still wallow around and feel some hope for the future. I guess you can call it a meta-cognitive belief about being depressed about being depressed. I wonder how you tackle those nasty beliefs?
Quoting Marcus de Brun
OK, I'll take it easy on the disidentification thing for now.
What if I thought to myself: "My depression is a low, how about I indulged in the high." Would that alleviate my depression? By highs I don't mean use of stimulants. I mean finding natural expressions of life which allow me to indulge in my passions (or what I would consider my best self-appreciated expressions of life), like hobbies and stuff. Perhaps if I included them regularly into my life schedule I could stave off depression. Is this practical?
How would you ever know whether it is hereditary, "in the genetic makeup"? If you can never know, then the question would seem to be irrelevant. Assume, though, for the sake of argument that you cannot ever get rid of your depression; so you are left with coping with it.
Now obviously coping can be more or less effective. But if you cope more effectively with your depression, doesn't that mean it is dispelled more than if you cope with it less effectively? So you can't get rid of it entirely, perhaps, but you can dispel it more or less, depending on how well you cope with it, no?
Quoting Posty McPostface
Do you ever go for long walks? If not, why not try it and see what it does to your mood? Going for long walks might be one weapon in the armory of better coping.
What could it even mean to disidentify with yourself; short of developing some kind of dissociative personality disorder? What you need to do is to disidentify with the often introjected, inauthentic thoughts that stop you from freely being yourself and enjoying your life.
I mean, at minimum. I'm reminded of Hercules' choice. Vice and virtue come to visit him while he is solitary in the mountains. Vice offers him a pleasing, pleasurable life, but virtue, a hard and difficult life, but with the possibility of glory.
If you can't derive pleasure from life, I mean you aren't really trying at all... usually if you aren't doing it, it means that you're doing it too much, or wrong. Sleeping too much, eating too much, lazying about too often. So, your suggestion is quite correct. At minimum at least make sure you're doing it right. That is difficult though, particularly in the face of boredom and isolation. Pain killing of poor circumstances, traumas, and all manner of life's ills. That itself is difficult to do, but that isn't even yet the difficult path. It's hardly glorious to not be grossly indulgent to the point of self harm.
What's glorious is something else entirely, and inapplicable to the measures of pleasure and pain. Glory, respect from others and self, an unconscious sense of confidence and self-worth that transforms your entire being, and perspective into something else entirely. Pegasus, friend of the muses, and himself considered the inspiration in place of the muses for poetry in the 19th century.
To be self-content, satisfied in a way that just doesn't register on the same plane as the pleasure and pain dynamic. Something that nearly renders that irrelevant.
Q: It's always been there. Just haven't addressed it enough as of late. I still wallow around and feel some hope for the future. I guess you can call it a meta-cognitive belief about being depressed about being depressed. I wonder how you tackle those nasty beliefs?
A: Philosophy.
I get to use the 'I' when I philosophize, and in life it is not so much the body that is in need of masturbation, but rather the mind.
I know that ones psychology is the child of ones philosophy and the metaphorical house is in turmoil when the child is dictating to the parent.
Philosophy cuts with two blades. It brings awareness and awareness necessarily brings dis-ease. Stupid people are often as happy, and very often happier than thinking people. The only consolation to this human irony is the fact that Philosophy can at times bring a deeper more lasting and more profound sense of happiness and ease with the world than ignorance.
The state of unhappiness is the state of self destruction. This can only be tackled in two principle ways, one must fight the self and one must understand the self.
To fight, simply means to get out of bed in the morning and embrace the fundamental realities of life despite the pain. One must on occasion take a hiatus from the battle with self, the question of self, not by lying in bed and wallowing but rather by an escape into a structured simple plan for your day, this is the fight. Almost of Kant's magnificence was constructed upon and around the dicipline of getting out of bed in the morning and going for his walk.
You must ultimately win the battle against the self in order to understand the self and to do so you must arise from the bed and confine the demon to a somewhat disciplined routine. Arise, wash, put on fresh clothes, comb ones hair and move from the zone of pain out into the Universe and experience its horror and beauty whilst being the master of the self. One must satisfy the needs of the self but one must first understand what are the fundamental basis of those same needs.
One must bring order to the chaos of the metaphorical house, this is the fight. You have two allies in this fight, your first is the infinite beauty of nature, that remains unseen in the midst of struggle. Thoreau is your companion here. If it is raining outside your bedroom then go outside and whilst you are walking hear the drops upon your umbrella.
HEAR the DROPS, each one is the toll of a bell that was first rung at the birth of the universe. Each drop is united by inexplicable deeply mysterious forces of gravity and electrostatic attraction, each one contains trace elements of pollution, of gases liberated by the molecular decay of dinosaur flesh and bones, archaic forests a hundred million years old, melted into oil, drilled from the bowls of the earth and fired into the atmosphere from the exhaust of a car that is ferrying some other poor unhappy blind soul, into the endless drudgery of his own painful and imperfect existence.
One drop of rain is all you need to embrace the infinite joy of Philosophy. If you do as old Philosophy bids, arise from the bed and go for a REAL walk.. you will encounter more than one beautiful drop of rain.
Life is a beautiful horror, WE are life.
You must fight the horror and live the beautiful.
Philosophy is the walk of life.
M
Is it outside the realm of possibility that "depression" is the mind's way of dealing with the inability to adapt to being a prisoner of conscious experience?
The criticism I would have of this assertion (we almost always put criticism before thought here on the forum), is largely confined to the rather meek nature of the preamble to your idea: "is it outside the realm of possibility".
The gentle nature of the delivery is 'nice', however the thought which comes after is rather profound, and is in no way 'outside the realm of possibility', but rather (as I hope you know) strikes at the heart of the matter, and is closer to the truth of depression than most objective analysis I have encountered to date.
The idea demands sustenance and should be formulated into an essay (I would like to read same). You must expand upon the terms you have used. What do you mean by 'the minds way' the 'inability to adapt' and the rather beautiful phrase....'a prisoner of conscious experience'.
You have a kernal of precious ore here, and you owe it to Old Philosophy to refine this idea into gold.
To hell with the realm of possibility, strike at the impossible.
M
The above quote by @All sight is a reflection of something Socrates says: "For I am in want, and he has enough; and he only gives you the appearance of happiness, and I give you the reality."
He (Socrates) was pointing out the imbalance between material justice (based on flawed human perception) vs real or absolute justice.
The point I'm trying to make is that, even in your depression you seem to have cultivated quite a discerning level of self-awareness that self-improvement seems inevitable if not fated. That, perhaps, your rehabilitation from depression may have began long before the realisation of it.
So, perhaps the reality of your struggle is not how to counter the depression but to accept a state where you transcend the need for (or dependency on) emotional highs (especially those which are shared) and choose to live with the meagre rewards which accompany the solitary life of self-reflection and self-assertion. Maybe a re-definition of your depression is in order.
This (depression) seems to often be a concern with many philosophers and it may have presented you with the challenge of whether you can integrate in the world again in your individuality after having overcome the social bond of 'mass dependency'. A kind of re-defining your stance/stake in life.
I thought I should add this:
Don't eliminate emotional highs from your life (especially those which are shared), instead determine how best to incorporate them. It could be like attempting a life of full awareness where you limit the idea of 'chance' or 'luck' as much as possible by increasing the level of self-actualization. Life becomes more of what you choose to do than what just happens.