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Is ignorance really bliss?

Aidan buk July 31, 2018 at 01:04 11525 views 43 comments
Ive been thinking about this lately and i believe this to be mostly true. I will give an example. Let's say a person has just been through a breakup. They are sad but told by friends something along the lines of "they are too good for them" or that "the partner is an idiot" etc, even if the partner has not truly done anything wrong. This will be believed by most, despite the truth that the partner doing the dumping infact judges the other to be insufficient in terms of relationship quality which is the unfavourable truth. This ignorance however is obviously comforting. The ability to believe such reassurance by friends and to ignore real truths is suggestively beneficial for the individuals happiness. I could give various examples of this, as I could imagine you could too when you watch and see how often people appear to lie to themselves. I don't believe ignorance is always a bad thing as it helps people to move on and be happier. What do you think, is ignorance bliss?

Comments (43)

_db July 31, 2018 at 01:17 #201529
Ignorance might be bliss for a short time but it tends to bite you in the ass later on down the road when you suddenly have serious problems that you should have dealt with earlier but didn't because you didn't know the problems were even there.

However as Nietzsche observed, people can only handle so much truth. That life continues to exist is enabled by our capacity for self-delusion which includes being willfully unaware of real problems.
creativesoul July 31, 2018 at 01:30 #201537
Well, I could envision many cases where it would be, and many where it would not. But yeah, sometimes it's easier on the person to not know they way things are.
TheMadFool July 31, 2018 at 07:03 #201574
Reply to Aidan buk What does it mean to say that ignorance is bliss?

Either ignorance itself is joy-inducing or the truth is painful.

I don't think it's the former because investing emotions is mostly done on the basis of truth. For instance we hold back when given good news, asking ''really?'' Only upon being told that the good news is true do we enjoy the good fortune or fruits of our labor.

As for the latter, I think this is the curse of philosophy. Truth is hard to find and those that are within reach (crime, cheating, evil, catastrophes, climate change, etc) are just not the rainbow we're looking for. Perhaps this is pessimism talking but I've heard that optimists are commonly disappointed by reality.

So, I disagree that ignorance is bliss. Rather, knowledge is sorrow.
Aidan buk July 31, 2018 at 12:04 #201599
Thanks for your interesting answers
BC July 31, 2018 at 13:23 #201611
Reply to Aidan buk So, are you any clearer about whether you are better off discovering the truth, or not?

Life is unsatisfactory in many ways and sometimes one just doesn't need hourly updates on how unsatisfactory it is.

Jake July 31, 2018 at 14:03 #201627
Quoting Bitter Crank
Life is unsatisfactory in many ways and sometimes one just doesn't need hourly updates on how unsatisfactory it is.


:smile:
rachMiel July 31, 2018 at 14:38 #201636
1. "What you know can't hurt you."
2. "What you don't know can hurt you."

I agree with 2. A lot of our suffering comes from psycho-emotional stuff swirling around in our unconscious (beyond our field of internal awareness).

But I don't agree with 1. What we know about self and the world *can* hurt us, a great deal, particularly shortly after first coming to know it.
Aidan buk July 31, 2018 at 22:12 #201714
Reply to Bitter Crank Reply to Bitter Crank true but ignoring the unsatisfactory nature of life is ignorant. An ignorance of what is often the truth. I'm not saying it's bad to be ignorant, infact it's often good. In that it may be argued that ignorance may be seen as bliss.
BC August 01, 2018 at 02:44 #201765
Reply to Aidan buk not all ignorance is the same. There is the ignorance stemming from a lack of instruction. One has to be taught the multiplication tables and the Periodic Table. There is the ignorance stemming from having forgotten the elements listed in the Periodic Table. There is the ignorance of knowing that something exists, but not knowing very much about it. I know that Burma is sometimes called Myanmar; I know that it is located between Bangladesh and... Thailand, maybe. I know it is a predominantly Buddhist country. That is about it. There is the ignorance of avoiding information. People who avoid viewing sources of news are deliberately ignorant. There is the ignorance of those who can cite 100 things that President Obama did totally wrong, but have not heard of one fault in President Trump (and visa versa).

Then there is "invincible ignorance": Ignorance so firmly rooted, ignorance so well defended, ignorance so impervious to enlightenment, that nothing will ever get through to them. (It is my belief that Donald Trump is the exemplar of invincible ignorance in our time.)

Perhaps people who are ignorant through no fault of their own (innocent savages) are blissful. The rest of the ignorant have no excuse.

(For those who have forgotten, here is a list of the elements, presented by Prof. Thomas Lehrer, Department of Mathematics, Harvard University

Aidan buk August 01, 2018 at 13:02 #201865
Reply to Bitter Crank thank you for your reply again. That was what I was suggesting, that those who are ignorant through no fault of there own are perhaps more blissful. It seems to me like being in a bubble. However, what is the difference between choosing to be ignorant and being inherently ignorant (innocent savages as you described). Both times we choose to carry out actions deemed to be ignorant, believing them to be right and not ignorant to our knowledge. Are you suggesting that someone of maybe a high IQ who chooses to be ignorant is more at fault than someone of a lower IQ?
BC August 03, 2018 at 18:34 #202558
Reply to Aidan buk

Here is an interesting "long read" in The Guardian about denial and denialism.

Ignorance does not cause, or put one into 'denial', but denial and denialism can shift one solidly into ignorance. Why do people deny accepted truth? Like, "HIV causes AIDS"; or "Human beings are causing global climate change"; or "evolution explains how a myriad of specialized organisms arose"... and so on.

It might take a certain amount of psychoanalysis to determine why some people deny accepted fact. For instance, what is the motivation for denying the holocaust occurred? Something -- and I do not know what it is -- sends some people on a course from knowledge to doubt to denial to denialism. Get deeply enough into denial and one becomes ignorant about some aspects of reality. (But ignorance definitely is not a cause of denialism.)

No doubt, denialists who think HIV doesn't cause AIDS or that the US Government was responsible for 9/11 find comfort in their sealed off view of reality. They have "special access to the truth" which most people have been robbed of. For the denialist, most people are fools for accepting the commonly understood version of reality.

Denialists are more dangerous than the merely ignorant because they energetically defend their ignorance.
Relativist August 03, 2018 at 18:43 #202563
Reply to Aidan buk
There is no attitude regarding relationships that correspond to truth: it's all about what we tell ourselves. So you might as well follow whatever path leads you to happiness.
raza August 03, 2018 at 19:02 #202568
Reply to Aidan buk It means, I think, dim people can be quite happy.

A not particularly bright person can be easily distracted by simply constructed, cheaply produced, models of entertainment. Happy, perhaps, to watch many reruns of Disney films.
Aidan buk August 04, 2018 at 11:21 #202780
Reply to Bitter Crank that's a good point regarding denialists/conspiracy theorists. I find it funny how many look down upon the general public and judge them to be naive and ignorant due to their inability to believe the conspiracys, but ironically it is them who become ignorant as they become incapable of believing anything accept conspiracy.
raza August 04, 2018 at 11:54 #202785
Quoting Bitter Crank
the US Government was responsible for 9/11 find comfort in their sealed off view of reality.


This is the conspiracy I heard on that. Some bearded guy in a cave on a yak had the sophistication to get around every highly evolved trillion dollar security protocols to achieve what was achieved on that day, and ALL during this:

" Operation Northern Vigilance, was a NORAD operation which involved deploying fighter aircraft to locations in Alaska and Northern Canada. In order to simulate a hijacking situation including terrorist pilots.[1] The operation was a response to a Russian exercise, in which long-range bombers were dispatched to Russia's high north. The operation was one part simulation, one part real world. It was immediately called off after NORAD received word from NEADS that the Federal Aviation Administration had evidence of a hijacking. All simulated information (so-called "injects") were purged from computer screens at NORAD headquarters in Colorado. On receiving news of the attacks, the Russians promptly canceled their exercise as well." (wiki)

When exercises such as the NORAD one are carried out two teams are formed. A red team and a blue team. One team is attacker and the other defender.

During the actual attack security had been stood down prior. Security NEVER gets stood down whether their are exercises or not.

All above are facts (although "caves and yaks" are for theatrical and sarcastic value).
raza August 04, 2018 at 12:03 #202787
Reply to Bitter Crank Added to above;

So to further examine the red teem vs blue team exercise protocol, it seems obvious, therefore, that on that day the defender team was STOOD DOWN.

It is admitted as such, in that security was stood down.

So what are the benefits for this?

Keep everyone in fear - great for keeping those tax funds being increased towards security business which ultimately is used to control a nation's own citizens and not to so much defend from other nations.

Other nation's citizens do not contribute the sort of money taxes do to the military industrial government. complex. (yes, it's a thing)
raza August 04, 2018 at 12:26 #202788
Maybe ignorance of the above is bliss......for those you want to believe everything their government does is for their personal benefit.
raza August 04, 2018 at 12:28 #202789
Another conspiracy theory I have heard:

If you do not buy the government explanation of 911 you must believe in a flat earth and the holocaust by the Nazis did not happen.
raza August 04, 2018 at 13:41 #202795
Reply to Bitter Crank This excerpt from same wiki page is more relevant.

"National Reconnaissance Office drill
Aside from military exercises, a National Reconnaissance Office drill was being conducted on September 11, 2001. In a simulated event, a small aircraft would crash into one of the towers of the agency's headquarters after experiencing a mechanical failure. The NRO is the branch of the Department of Defense in charge of spy satellites. According to its spokesman Art Haubold: "No actual plane was to be involved -- to simulate the damage from the crash, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building." He further explained: "It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility, as soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise." Most of the agency's personnel were sent home after the attacks."

And so during this drill the defender team is stood down?

Who really, therefore, WAS the attack team?

The ultimate attack team certainly wasn't in "stood down" mode.

Wow! What a coincidence, eh? Our bearded "Yak-back rider" knew(?) of this exercise for the same day.

raza August 04, 2018 at 13:42 #202796
Above will be ignored, because..........Ignorance is Bliss.
3rdClassCitizen August 05, 2018 at 22:55 #203218
It's too easy to claim others to be insane by accusing them of conspiracy theory.
We all have heard many ridiculous conspiracy theories. This empowers a few grandstanders to make sweeping jestures about what all is true or not true.

Liberal media. The "me too" movement. Russia muddling in the election. These are theories about conspiracy.

True ignorance, not denial, can be seen in Alzheimer's patients and the mental retarded. They are blissfully happy, they don't have the capacity to worry.
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:07 #203234
Reply to Aidan buk Ignorance cant be bliss for the wise.
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:20 #203235
Reply to 3rdClassCitizen It's too easy to claim others to be insane by accusing them of conspiracy theory.
We all have heard many ridiculous conspiracy theories"

I would say, in my case, I read them because there is something drowing me to them, yet to not wrongly concider them "true" or "right" without serious pondering and research first. you may also never "find the answer" or learn the "truth" or what was "right". but it dosent hurt to know them. or is it?
It does make feel a bit paranoid and that cant be good. but I never jump train that quickly. or a metaphor I enjoy better; "I feel obligeted to sit on the fence until I know without question witch side has the greenest grass. and if I jump prematurly to discover I was wrong I hope I acknowledge that I was wrong and climp back on the fence and ponder some more."
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:24 #203237
Ignorance stands in the way of the truth and the truth is reality and reality IS and should be accepted by all.
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:34 #203238
so thats a "no" hehe :)
allan wallace August 06, 2018 at 00:37 #203239
Of course ignorance is bliss! We waste so much of our time wringing our hands, gnashing our teeth, and giving ourselves migraines as we ruminate on the tsunami of insensibilities that washes over us every wretched day.....

a little light relief, enjoy! Oh well, don't enjoy! I can't paste a song from this Mac :lol: If curious it was going to be 'I saw a UFO but nobody believed me by Sneaky Sound System....

Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:41 #203240
allan wallace August 06, 2018 at 00:41 #203241
:rofl:
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:43 #203242
Reply to allan wallace lol, the funny thing was that it was a picture with the words: Knowlegde is power! haha..I obviously need some knowlegde in this!
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:44 #203244
my ignorance did not feel like bliss...
BC August 06, 2018 at 00:44 #203245
Reply to raza There have been enough conspiracies for us to take plots at least somewhat seriously. But the conspiracy has to make some sort of sense.

The thing about 9/11 is that it WAS a conspiracy, and the conspiracy was successful. Occam's razor directs us toward the bin Laden directed plot, rather than those devious devils' plot in Washington.

Remember, this was the second attack on the World Trade Towers--the first being in 1993. In that attack, the intent was to fell the north tower into the south tower. Some engineers speculated that it could have worked. (They didn't wish to provide details on how to do it better.) The conspirators killed 6 people and injured over 1000. Had it worked, many thousands would likely have died. Al Qaeda provided training for this attack. The World Trade Center was selected as a representative of US economic power.

The attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, OK was also a successful conspiracy--planned by Americans against Americans in America. It was in retaliation for the attack on an oddball bunch of Americans in the Branch Davidian facility in Waco, TX in April of 1993. Whether the Bureau of Tobacco, Alcohol and Firearms (a branch of the US Treasury) was conspiring to bring about what happened, don't know. Why that particular federal building was blown up, don't know.

There have been other conspiracies to do various (usually violent) deeds. In 1970 a small group blew up Stirling Hall at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. The Army had a research center in the building, and the explosion was a protest against the War in Vietnam. The conspirators had tried to blow up the building when no one was there, but unfortunately 1 graduate student was there and was killed. He didn't have anything to do with the Army research program.

Imagine living in England, what with all the IRA bombs that were blown up there during the 1970s - 90s.
Another example of successful conspiracies.

I'm not sure the US Intelligence Agencies are capable of thinking up, planning, and pulling off a devilishly ingenious dastardly conspiracy. We have too many means to crush which ever group of bastards are annoying us. The annoying bastards, on the other hand, have to work within extremely limited means -- they have to be fiendishly clever. And they have been.
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 00:51 #203246
Reply to Bitter Crank "But the conspiracy has to make some sort of sense." what makes sense" can vary alot from person to person. and no one can truly be wrong if they have found no undeniably, true answer.
allan wallace August 06, 2018 at 01:12 #203253
This is exactly why ignorance is bliss, no? Those that lack the ability to think for themselves and enjoy the comfort of being one of the woolly headed herd of identical sheeplike sycophants will merely bleat the same bland note as the woolly creature in front of him in order to take the easy way out....

I haven't bothered to look too closely at the conspiracy stuff, the other factors are enough to persuade me that there is a horde of cowardly grunting rock chucking goat molesting bomb making bearded lunatics that may seek to liberate my bonce from my torso! That it might be a small mercy and put me out of my misery isn't the point :lol: .....if certain savages choose to observe the teachings of a demented paedophile from the 6th Century, that is their prerogative, but they ought to keep their primitive nonsense to themselves. It isn't unreasonable to expect them to observe the same laws as the rest of us. I don't like materialism, but I'm not going to go on a crusade against those that do worship at the temple of Mammon...



Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 01:23 #203255
Reply to allan wallace yeah, im not a fan of religion either. and I have thought about there being a conspiracy about religion and the reasons for religions existence. but I dont know offcourse. its just my imagination or paranoia running wild.
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 01:40 #203260
so ignorance is bliss but KNOWING will help you more, if your strong enough.
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 01:44 #203262
Reply to allan wallace Reply to allan wallace "a little light relief, enjoy! Oh well, don't enjoy! I can't paste a song from this Mac :lol: If curious it was going to be 'I saw a UFO but nobody believed me by Sneaky Sound System...." I prefure the band UFO :)
allan wallace August 06, 2018 at 02:03 #203267
Ah, but can we ever really 'know'? My cynicism runs very deep....I'll never lose my sense of wonder about the profundities of The Cosmos, but so much of everyday life is nauseating, no? I'm strong enough mate, i've been going 'against the grain' for as long as I can remember, but raging against the machine is exhausting. I'm tired....i'd sooner just enjoy a cup of tea as i daydream out the window....
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 02:30 #203275
yeah, and I cant help to think that total enlightenment and knowing all the answers, if we see the quest for answers all the way through. is the closest you`ll get to becoming god-like,
you have the entire puzzle-picture infront of you and you reach the highest transcendence...or some bullshit like that. I dont think it will happen :)
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 02:32 #203276
Reply to allan wallace Ah, but can we ever really 'know'? My cynicism runs very deep....I'll never lose my sense of wonder about the profundities of The Cosmos, but so much of everyday life is nauseating, no? I'm strong enough mate, i've been going 'against the grain' for as long as I can remember, but raging against the machine is exhausting. I'm tired....i'd sooner just enjoy a cup of tea as i daydream out the window.... "


:up:
Aleksander Kvam August 06, 2018 at 02:34 #203277
"i'd sooner just enjoy a cup of tea as i daydream out the window...." one can live in total bliss just thinking about all the mysteries of the world and the universe and not reallly care to know them too. Mystery is the fanciest word for not knowing :)
raza August 06, 2018 at 10:12 #203321
Quoting Bitter Crank
The attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, OK was also a successful conspiracy--planned by Americans against Americans in America.


A fertiliser bomb in a truck could not have caused that sort of damage. But hey! These conspirators take great pains in deception. That is why they usually succeed. The use of patsies is an old tried and true playbook. The truck blew, along with the far lager devices in synchronicity.
3rdClassCitizen August 09, 2018 at 02:51 #204211
When it comes to 9/11, the vast majority of people don't want to know the ugly truth. It is better to let it go, a case of blissful ignorance.
Watts729 August 09, 2018 at 03:09 #204220
I think we need to clear up what kind of "ignorance" we are speaking of. Are we talking about willful ignorance? Like ignoring that which displeases you? or are we discussing ignorance that you don't know? And is this knowledge which you are ignoring easily obtainable or is it a truth that only few are privy to, like if we lived in the Matrix or something.