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On logical equivalence

TheMadFool July 05, 2018 at 10:00 7125 views 18 comments
My logic is rusty so kindly bear with me. I have a question on logical equality or equivalence.

The law of identity comes to mind first. Basically the law of identity states that for any given proposition A, A = A. I'm fine with that as without it we wouldn't be able to do any thinking at all.

However, my question is about logical equivalence i.e. the equality of two two different propositions. Say I have the proposition A and a different proposition B. A = B would be an indication of A <-> B being a tautology i.e. true under all circumstances in all possible worlds. In such a case one could say A = B because their truth values synchronize perfectly (T,T) or (F,F) in all possible worlds. I guess this has to do with truth functional interpretation of propositions.

However...

I'd like to discuss the word ''is'' which logically translates to ''=''. When I say ''Trump is the POTUS'' I mean Trump=POTUS.

In logic equivalence is commutative i.e. is to say, in my example, there's no difference between Trump=POTUS and POTUS=Trump.

But there seems to be a difference between T: Trump=POTUS and P: POTUS=Trump.

If I say T then I mean what everyone usually means in that Trump is the POTUS now. However, when I say P:POTUS=Trump there's an added meaning to what T says. P seems to have the additional meaning of ''Trump is the POTUS'' implying that there is no POTUS better than Trump.

So, in effect I'm saying that T is NOT equivalent to P although logically they are.

What are your views? Thanks.

Comments (18)

Jeremiah July 05, 2018 at 12:29 #194123
I don't think this has anything to do with logic, and this is posted in the wrong section.
Deleted User July 05, 2018 at 23:05 #194187
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Srap Tasmaner July 06, 2018 at 02:50 #194238
Reply to TheMadFool
The short answer is that logical equivalence is just a matter of truth value, which in turn is just a matter of extension. All the other nuances of language are deliberately left out.
jkg20 July 06, 2018 at 07:40 #194272
Reply to Srap Tasmaner
T: Trump=POTUS and P: POTUS=Trump.
You talk about meaning being added by carrying out the change of position from T to P, so let us assume that meaning is indeed added. What a proposition expresses is its meaning and different meanings can be expressed only by different propositions. If T expresses one meaning and P expresses that meaning + some added meaning, then P expresses a different meaning to T and so is a different proposition. Different propositions, under propositional calculus, can take truth values independently of each other, so T <-> P is not a tautology in this case and so they are not logically equivalent.
Logical equivalence does not always lead to identity, or at least not straightforwardly - the connection is complex. A coin's head exists if and only if a coin's tail exists, but a coin's head is not a coin's tail, so that a coin's head exists must express a different proposition than that a coin's tail exists. Of course, I'm making the fatal error of treating exists as a predicate here, may Kant forgive me.
@TheMadFool I seem to remember that old fraud Quine suggesting that one could turn proper names into predicates (maybe in "On What There Is"?): "Socrates" becomes "the unique Socratizer" or some such nonsense.

TheMadFool July 06, 2018 at 10:05 #194295
Quoting tim wood
So you're reading the proposition as two kinds of propositions read in two different ways. Your ear and your sense tell you something went wrong. What went wrong is that the second, the "is" proposition, is (in this case) not convertible, whereas the "=" proposition is always necessarily convertible.


Does that mean logic can't handle this particular nuance of "is" in language? Thank you. Your answer is the most sensible.

Quoting Srap Tasmaner
he short answer is that logical equivalence is just a matter of truth value, which in turn is just a matter of extension. All the other nuances of language are deliberately left out.
:up:

Quoting jkg20
I seem to remember that old fraud Quine suggesting that one could turn proper names into predicates (maybe in "On What There Is"?): "Socrates" becomes "the unique Socratizer" or some such nonsense.


Can you explain what that means? I understand that predicates usually have to be properties and proper names are more like arbitrary labels given to some objects. Using a proper name as a predicate would be confusing unless the particular proper name is an archetype.

andrewk July 06, 2018 at 10:55 #194322
Quoting TheMadFool
I'd like to discuss the word ''is'' which logically translates to ''=''. When I say ''Trump is the POTUS'' I mean Trump=POTUS.

You think that's bad. What about 'She is hungry'?

The problem is with the verb 'to be', which is a jumble of vagueness and equivocations. That's why somebody invented E*Prime to avoid its use.

The French have the right idea. They say 'I have hunger', which avoids the whole problem. The E*Prime way of saying that Macron 'is' the president of the Republic of France would be something like 'Monsieur Emanuel Macron holds the office of president of the Republic of France.'
jkg20 July 06, 2018 at 14:25 #194337
Reply to andrewk
Can you explain what that means?

You'd need to read up on Quine's writings on ontological commitments and how to avoid them to get the details. Basically, Quine's idea was that the "ideal" language of metaphysics should have no singular terms such as names or constants, and consist just of variables, quantifiers, predicates and rules of logical inference.
Jeremiah July 06, 2018 at 15:40 #194353
The stress is subjectivitaly beinging put on the word the, and that stress is ambiguous. This is a grammar issue, not one of logic.
Jeremiah July 06, 2018 at 15:45 #194355
Holy crap! Trump is the president. We are all doomed!
Deleted User July 06, 2018 at 15:55 #194356
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
andrewk July 06, 2018 at 21:29 #194403
Reply to jkg20 I think it must be somebody else that said that. I can't see it in what I wrote.
Banno July 06, 2018 at 22:30 #194421
Quoting TheMadFool
The law of identity comes to mind first. Basically the law of identity states that for any given proposition A, A = A. I'm fine with that as without it we wouldn't be able to do any thinking at all.


The law of identity is better phrased as every thing is the same as itself. that is,

U(x)(x=x)

were x is an individual, not a proposition.

But "Trump is President" is represented as P(t), a predicate relation.

In English both relationships are parsed using "is". The logical parsing shows that the English parsing is ambiguous.

So Trump is Trump, and unfortunately Trump is also the President. The first "is" is the "is" of identity; the second, the "is" of predication.

Quoting TheMadFool
When I say ''Trump is the POTUS'' I mean Trump=POTUS.


No, you don't.
Banno July 06, 2018 at 22:33 #194424
Reply to Jeremiah Not all of us. China is doing fine.
jkg20 July 07, 2018 at 09:07 #194606
Reply to andrewk Mea culpa - the reply was for @TheMadFool's question concerning Quine's idea that names can be converted to predicates.
TheMadFool July 09, 2018 at 13:57 #195232
Reply to andrewk :grin: :up:
TheMadFool July 09, 2018 at 14:00 #195234
TheMadFool July 09, 2018 at 14:00 #195235
Quoting Jeremiah
Holy crap! Trump is the president. We are all doomed!


:joke:
EnPassant July 10, 2018 at 16:07 #195673
I think the confusion is purely semantic. POTUS is a position in a hierarchy that can be occupied by many people. Trump is only one person. T = P, is meaningless if P = 'the top position in the hierarchy'.
T = P has meaning if P = 'the present occupier of the top position in the hierarchy'