Pain as a Warning

There are different types of pain, including pathological pain, which serves no useful purpose. You are also assuming that the cause of mental illness is some failure on the part of society, when that may not be the case at all. One source of "mental pain" is a loss of social contact, like breaking up with a lover, or being kicked out of a group. That may occur, not because there is something wrong with society, but because there is something wrong with the person. You seem to be over generalizing.

Reply to LD Saunders

I don't remember saying all mental pain is always caused by society. What would make a stronger correlation is when there are high levels of mental distress and mental illness in a society.

But I don't see how societal dysfunction could be ruled out as a cause of mental health problems.

Many people have died from pollution which is a social problem. I don't see why mental health problems could not be caused from societal dysfunction in the same way or why the causes of mental health would always be internal.

Some pain does appear to serve no purpose like chronic pain but I don't see why all mental pain would fall into that category. But almost all pain is a sign of bodily dysfunction including brain wiring issues if there is no transparent injury, so I think mental distress and mental illness would be correlated with some form of dysfunction.

One interesting claim is that mental health improved during world war two and it is suggested that the increase in community spirit and the feeling of having a greater purpose may have contributed.

In my own experience any big distraction helps me.

Pain becomes more of a mystery than it already is when it serves no purpose other than to distress and demoralise us. the pain as a signal theory is popular as the primary functional account and evolutionary account of it. However chronic pain does undermine that view.

But the fact some pain physical serves a definite purpose (see congenital pain defect cases) means some mental pain most likely has a similar function.

Quoting Andrew4Handel

But the fact some pain physical serves a definite purpose (see congenital pain defect cases) means some mental pain most likely has a similar function.

To warn that something is wrong? I agree. Killing the messenger can be catastrophic.

The same parts of the brain that activate physical pain also activate for psychological pain. So? How does that mean that psychological pain is a result of a dysfunctional society? It doesn't. Just think of it this way, we can have physical pain without society being dysfunctional, so what would make psychological pain different?

Quoting LD Saunders

Just think of it this way, we can have physical pain without society being dysfunctional, so what would make psychological pain different?

The OP didn't say that mental distress necessarily signals a social problem. It would be hard to argue that such distress couldn't be a symptom of a larger social problem, though.

This is what the OP states, "So based on this perspective it seems to me that mental pain including mental illnesses could be a symptom something is wrong either with society and culture or our life style and the presence of it should stimulate action or prevention." If you are stating that "could be" means that the OP is itself saying that it is not really saying anything substantive, then that is fine by me.

Reply to LD Saunders "Could be" implies "not necessarily."

"Could be" also implies "bullshit."

Quoting LD Saunders

Could be" also implies "bullshit."

Not necessarily.

Quoting Andrew4Handel

So based on this perspective it seems to me that mental pain including mental illnesses could be a symptom something is wrong either with society and culture or our life style and the presence of it should stimulate action or prevention.

At least sometimes mental illness is caused by living in a crazy society. A crazy society seems to affect some people more than others, but in general it makes life difficult for millions.

I think I live in a society that is at least somewhat crazy, and some of the time it is stark raving mad.

People who have congenital pain defect or lose their ability to suffer pain suffer a lot of injuries. It is clear that we need physical pain for survival.

I think the "useless" pain is a problem with the pain system not with the efficacy of pain as a warning theory.

People do talk of conditions such as psychopathy as I suppose emotional disorders that lead people to harm others or be dysfunctional.Even congenital pain defect can affect empathy where someone cannot realise what pain they are causing others because they have no analogy to use.

Quoting frank

Killing the messenger can be catastrophic.

I agree. What would you consider killing the messenger?

I would say something like excessive medication and self based therapy or marginalisation, or ostracising.

This has always been a suspicion for critics of psychiatry that it is enforcing norms etc.

Quoting Andrew4Handel

I would say something like excessive medication and self based therapy or marginalisation, or ostracising.

Yep. Taking meds instead of going to bed and getting needed rest. The type of therapy that says: its just a matter of how you view situations, alter your judgments. If life has become utter crap, trying to change your attitude about it could be a last attempt to take the easy way out.

It has been said that mental problems are a result of our susceptibility to such problems and societal oppression. Whether or not society is dysfunctional, it certainly demands compliance without review. Not all will flourish who could otherwise.

Also saying something is 'wrong' is presuming metaphysics is it not?

Quoting Monitor

Also saying something is 'wrong' is presuming metaphysics is it not?

I don't mean wrong in the moral sense but wrong in terms of harm or malfunction. Any illness relies on a notion of malfunction it seems.

Quoting Andrew4Handel

Any illness relies on a notion of malfunction it seems.

Good point.

Maybe the OP is looking at the body's (or society's) activity of maintaining homeostasis. Does mental pain serve society to balance / counteract something? To what end?

Reply to Monitor

I suppose you could ask the individual what is paining them. Then you can look for common responses and see whether they suggest societal malfunction.

Now I think about it, it does seem hard to work out what might be causing mental pain, unless the person experiencing it thinks that they know (by introspection or something).

What exactly causes mental illness and mental distress is controversial it seems. It is easier or less controversial to blame smoking for causing cancer than to blame family or society for mental illness.

My overall suggestion is just that something must be wrong somewhere to cause mental distress. It seems like finding causes is being neglected with a focus on CBT and meditation style solutions which involve healing yourself and without necessarily referencing a cause and seem to put all the onus on the individual and not his or her environment.

You do hear said that the black sheep in a family maybe symptomatic of dysfunction in a family but this person is channelling it or displaying it whilst others are in denial.

Quoting Andrew4Handel

You do hear said that the black sheep in a family maybe symptomatic of dysfunction in a family but this person is channelling it or displaying it whilst others are in denial.

The lava will get to the surface, it will just take the path of least resistance. Which is our black sheep. Is he then playing a necessary role in society? To purge our dysfunction, to make it manifest.

I think a good case here is homosexuality and the ex-gay movement.

I almost can't even find the words to describe it.

One of the main reasons I left Christianity as a teen was it's inexplicable hostility to homosexuality. Of course growing up gay in religious fundamentalist household can hardly be described as healthy.

I came to the quick realisation I could never change my sexuality and had no intention of masquerading as straight.
A lot of mainly Muslim countries actively try and purge their homosexual populations. So who is dysfunctional here?

Some times gay people seem to find trying to conform easiest. I really don't know how humans manage to survive their own dysfunction.

Excellent example. A portion of the population, that might otherwise thrive, being disenfranchised due to societal fears. Yet it won't stay buried. It surfaces as an indicator, a warning.

Reply to Andrew4Handel mental illness is not a signal like pain. Its a bit more complicated. Mental illness is often a result of your brain trying to protect itself from emotional/mental truama. That or behavior it believes will protect itself from physical damage. So it creates unhealthy deffense mechanisms, behaviors and thought processes which are disruptive to everyday life.