'I know what's best for me.'
This seems to be an attitude a lot of people embrace. It can even be argued that it is a starting premise for immoral or amoral behavior.
What are your thoughts about this propositional attitude?
What are your thoughts about this propositional attitude?
Comments (32)
I always listen to advice, but ultimately I have to make the choice.
Not to be too trite: We all very often make choices which are against our best interests -- even 'best interest' as defined by our own self, and not some external standard. We aren't always self-defeating, but we are at times. We need others to put us back on the right path.
I disagree that it is false. If we don't know what's best for ourselves (and we know more about ourselves than others in most regards, since we have been with us the whole time), then who does? Others may know more about us in some regards - whatever our blind spots are. So in those regards listening to others is profitable. But ultimately, it is us who know best.
Although, it has to be clarified that this "know best" does not mean that we cannot be wrong, self-deceived, etc. just that we can be less so than others.
Friends. A good friend knows you better than you know yourself.
Quoting Posty McPostface
It's not so much that I know what's best for me but that it is my responsibility to know what's best for me if I want to be a moral agent. How can I take responsibility for my actions if I can't even judge what is best for myself?
Not in all circumstances. Quite often friends can give what is for you bad advice, but would for them be good advice if they were in your situation.
Maybe we're just talking past one another, here, and making the same point.
But to make the fallacious "No true Scostman" argument -- a good friend knows you better than you know yourself.
Even if in some cases they don't. I wouldn't disagree with that -- we are all responsible for ourselves, at the end of the day. It's just that sometimes we take that responsibility as a justification for bad decisions, and we all make bad decisions with respect to ourselves. (Even with respect to our own self-defined end goals and desires)
No, nobody knows what's best for us, including ourselves. But we know better than others in many circumstances, that's my point. There are exceptions, like when you're depressed, or anxious etc. then you may not know what's best for you better than your friends. In any case, discussing issues is often useful, not just with friends, but with everyone.
If that is the case then "I know what's best for me" is false. No?
Sure. I must've expressed myself badly, or perhaps I was tricked by the English language. I said:
Quoting Agustino
"Know best" does not mean we know it well - just that we know best compared to others.
Quoting Agustino
I also listen to my friends some of the time, and in some regards my friends know me better than I know myself. But that's certainly not true in all regards. For example, with regards to dating, I've never listened to my friends - that's why I'm now single :rofl: Ooops, bad example :rofl: . Let's try another. With regards to starting a business, I didn't listen to my friends, and things ended up well so far. There are entire areas of life where friends simply don't know enough (since they aren't me) to be able to help.
Below, "you" is a general reference, not a reference to any particular "you".
So, whether one knows what is best for one depends on how well one knows one's self. "Know yourself" the serious sybil sensibly said. IF you know yourself well, THEN you probably know what is is at least fairly good for you (good, maybe not best).
Even if you know yourself well, you can not know very much about all the possible outcomes of any given action. You may know the outcomes of some actions; you may know that some of them are good, and some of them are bad. You may decide to pursue actions that have bad outcomes because that is what you really want to do. Fine. As long as you know... oh, spitting in the boss's face will get you fired, and may make it difficult to get hired someplace else. As long as you're willing to put up with that consequence, then go ahead and gob-smack the SOB.
Can somebody know you better than you know yourself? To a limited extent. If you are very honest in your introspection, and accept your serious flaws and understand their influences, NO, somebody else can't know you better than you know yourself. But if you float around in a daze, sort of stumbling your way through life, babbling nonsensically about this and that, and showing only occasional flashes of intelligence and insight, then somebody else might very well know you at least as well as you know yourself.
But in no case does somebody else know what all the outcomes of any given action might be.
Much of the time, our guesses about probably outcomes of actions are spot on. Good. It's when they are miserably spot off that we have unpleasant surprises.
Funny that. I've always thought it was the ancient Greeks who said that.
Oh, you mean Sibyl!
Depends on who is saying it and about whom.
According to you, you know best, but it might be true that another knows best for you since you cannot know everything - another might know something you do not.
Something as trivial as a choice of film to watch on TV, could fit here.
Or a doctor might be able to suggest a medication you'd never ever heard of.
Yes--that one.
The other day I was in an Asics shoe store (Asics is now spelled properly, corrected from 'aesics' ) and this guy -- suppose he was around 50, was making a major production of trying to decide which of 4 shoes was best for him. He was asking the clerk what their advantages were, blah blah blah. I thought he needed some advice, so I said "The Asics are butcher than tasseled penny loafers." "What do you mean?" he asked, sort of annoyed. I said, "you know, 'b u c h e r". "That's spelled 'b u t c h e r'" he announced. I was going to add, "Maybe you're not butch enough for those shoes," but thought better of it.
My spelling skills seems to be slipping. So bucher, sybil, and aesics. All wrong. Fuk.
Which of the 147 Delphic Maxims seems best for you?
001. ???? ??? Follow God
002. ???? ?????? Obey the law
003. ????? ????? Worship the Gods
004. ?????? ????? Respect your parents
005. ???? ??? ??????? Be overcome by justice
006. ????? ????? Know what you have learned
007. ??????? ???? Perceive what you have heard
008. ?????? ???? Be/Know yourself
009. ?????? ????? Intend to get married
010. ?????? ????? Know your opportunity
011. ?????? ????? Think as a mortal
012. ????? ?? ???? If you are a stranger act like one
013. ?????? ???? Honor the hearth (or Hestia)
014. ???? ??????? Control yourself
015. ?????? ?????? Help your friends
016. ????? ?????? Control anger
017. ???????? ????? Exercise prudence
018. ???????? ???? Honor providence
019. ???? ?? ??? Do not use an oath
020. ?????? ????? Love friendship
021. ???????? ??????? Cling to discipline
022. ????? ????? Pursue honor
023. ?????? ????? Long for wisdom
024. ????? ?? ???? Praise the good
025. ???? ?????? Find fault with no one
026. ??????? ?????? Praise virtue
027. ?????? ?????? Practice what is just
028. ?????? ?????? Be kind to friends
029. ??????? ?????? Watch out for your enemies
030. ????????? ????? Exercise nobility of character
031. ?????? ?????? Shun evil
032. ?????? ????? Be impartial
033. ???? ??????? Guard what is yours
034. ????????? ?????? Shun what belongs to others
035. ????? ????? Listen to everyone
036. ??????? ???? Be (religiously) silent
037. ???? ??????? Do a favor for a friend
038. ????? ???? Nothing to excess
039. ?????? ?????? Use time sparingly
040. ??? ?? ?????? Foresee the future
041. ????? ????? Despise insolence
042. ?????? ????? Have respect for suppliants
043. ????? ??????? Be accommodating in everything
044. ????? ??????? Educate your sons
045. ???? ??????? Give what you have
046. ????? ????? Fear deceit
047. ??????? ?????? Speak well of everyone
048. ????????? ????? Be a seeker of wisdom
049. ???? ????? Choose what is divine
050. ????? ?????? Act when you know
051. ????? ?????? Shun murder
052. ????? ?????? Pray for things possible
053. ?????? ??? Consult the wise
054. ???? ???????? Test the character
055. ????? ?????? Give back what you have received
056. ????? ?????? Down-look no one
057. ????? ??? Use your skill
058. ? ???????, ??? Do what you mean to do
059. ?????????? ???? Honor a benefaction
060. ?????? ?????? Be jealous of no one
061. ?????? ??????? Be on your guard
062. ?????? ????? Praise hope
063. ???????? ????? Despise a slanderer
064. ??????? ??? Gain possessions justly
065. ??????? ???? Honor good men
066. ?????? ????? Know the judge
067. ?????? ?????? Master wedding-feasts
068. ????? ?????? Recognize fortune
069. ?????? ????? Flee a pledge
070. ????? ???????? Speak plainly
071. ??????? ??? Associate with your peers
072. ??????? ????? Govern your expenses
073. ???????? ???? Be happy with what you have
074. ???????? ????? Revere a sense of shame
075. ????? ??????? Fulfill a favor
076. ???????? ????? Pray for happiness
077. ????? ?????? Be fond of fortune
078. ?????? ??? Observe what you have heard
079. ??????? ????? Work for what you can own
080. ???? ????? Despise strife
081. ??????? ??????? Detest disgrace
082. ??????? ???? Restrain the tongue
083. ????? ?????? Keep yourself from insolence
084. ????? ?????? Make just judgements
085. ??? ???????? Use what you have
086. ???????????? ?????? Judge incorruptibly
087. ????? ??????? Accuse one who is present
088. ???? ????? Tell when you know
089. ???? ?? ???? Do not depend on strength
090. ?????? ???? Live without sorrow
091. ?????? ????? Live together meekly
092. ????? ???????? ?? ?????????? Finish the race without shrinking back
093. ?????????? ????? Deal kindly with everyone
094. ????? ?? ?????? Do not curse your sons
095. ???????? ???? Rule your wife
096. ??????? ?? ????? Benefit yourself
097. ???????????? ????? Be courteous
098. ????????? ?? ????? Give a timely response
099. ????? ???’ ???????? Struggle with glory
100. ?????? ??????????? Act without repenting
101. ????????? ???????? Repent of sins
102. ???????? ?????? Control the eye
103. ???????? ????? Give a timely counsel
104. ?????? ???????? Act quickly
105. ?????? ??????? Guard friendship
106. ???????? ????? Be grateful
107. ???????? ????? Pursue harmony
108. ??????? ?????? Keep deeply the top secret
109. ?? ??????? ????? Fear ruling
110. ?? ???????? ???? Pursue what is profitable
111. ?????? ????????? Accept due measure
112. ?????? ?????? Do away with enmities
113. ????? ????????? Accept old age
114. ??? ???? ?? ????? Do not boast in might
115. ???????? ????? Exercise (religious) silence
116. ????????? ????? Flee enmity
117. ??????? ??????? Acquire wealth justly
118. ????? ?? ????? Do not abandon honor
119. ?????? ????? Despise evil
120. ????????? ???????? Venture into danger prudently
121. ???????? ?? ????? Do not tire of learning
122. ?????????? ?? ????? Do not stop to be thrifty
123. ???????? ??????? Admire oracles
124. ??? ???????, ????? Love whom you rear
125. ?????? ?? ????? Do not oppose someone absent
126. ??????????? ????? Respect the elder
127. ???????? ??????? Teach a youngster
128. ?????? ??????? Do not trust wealth
129. ??????? ????? Respect yourself
130. ?? ???? ???????? Do not begin to be insolent
131. ????????? ???????? Crown your ancestors
132. ?????? ???? ???????? Die for your country
133 ?? ??? ?? ????? Do not be discontented by life
134. ??? ????? ?? ???? Do not make fun of the dead
135. ????????? ???????? Share the load of the unfortunate
136. ??????? ??????? Gratify without harming
137. ?? ??? ????? ????? Grieve for no one
138. ?? ??????? ????? Beget from noble routes
139. ?????????? ?????? Make promises to no one
140. ????????? ?? ?????? Do not wrong the dead
141. ?? ????? ?? ?????? Be well off as a mortal
142. ???? ?? ??????? Do not trust fortune
143. ???? ?? ??????? ???? As a child be well-behaved
144. ???? ???????? As a youth be self-disciplined
145. ????? ??????? As of middle-age be just
146. ????????? ??????? As an old man be sensible
147. ???????? ?????? On reaching the end be without sorrow
This is as far as I can get in one session. I've throw out the obvious stuff, and the religious BS.
Yeah, but I want an easy life, not one constrained by a multitude of Maxim's.
Wrong translation. ???? means rule - do not rule with arrogance
The Wise Old Sibyl had something for you, but you didn't read the list. There's several there that are quite compatible with indolence:
038. ????? ???? Nothing to excess (Don't trouble yourself).
051. ????? ?????? Shun murder (Not hard to do -- usually).
058. ? ???????, ??? Do what you mean to do (Whatever the fuck that is).
070. ????? ???????? Speak plainly (You did. "I want to live an easy life.").
073. ???????? ???? Be happy with what you have. (Very low-(effort advice).
096. ??????? ?? ????? Benefit yourself. (Why would you not?)
100. ?????? ??????????? Act without repenting (Skip all that repentance crap).
137. ?? ??? ????? ????? Grieve for no one (Skip the funerals. Less trouble. Less effort).
139. ?????????? ?????? Make promises to no one. (Keep their expectations low, low, low).
A teenager goes to buy a car, who knows best what is good for the kid. The salesman says he does, and wont his friends all admire and envy him for having his own wheels. And a lot of the time the kid ends up buying a clunker even after his dad says " don't buy it". He knows what is best for him.
An older person goes to buy a car, and maybe the same thing happens. But maybe if the older person has had other cars he does know what is best for him. He knows what is best for him.
Know what is best for you should be based on your knowledge about the subject, otherwise it might be wise to listen to your friends.
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It is ultimately the battle between paternalism and rebelism.
I don't think it entails that. You can acknowledge someone doesn't know what is best for him without dictating his life actions; it can allow for healthy, constructive discussion. If a person's convinced taking cocaine every few days is okay despite you knowing he has an addictive personality, I think it helps to assume he doesn't know and bring that up to him, challenge the belief in a non threatening or condescending way so you can have a constructive discussion about his drug use and his beliefs regarding his drug use. Maybe it can get him to reflect a bit and entertain other perspectives.
And there are cases where relinquishing control in certain decision domains is a good thing. Relinquishing your control over health related decisions to a field-expert in a hospital is an example of that. And the caregiver isn't actually suppose to provide treatment according to his/her own conception of what's ideal, they take your values or interests (desire to live; desire to maximize life quality; whatever it may be) into account in the treatment process- they just identify the most research informed way to go about getting there.