Does anyone else suffer from 'no ego'?
I've been told and even asked by people who know me, 'Where is your ego?'
I've come to the conclusion that through many years of reading about Buddhism, Stoicism, and the likes that the biggest obstruction to happiness is the ego. I've tried mushrooms, once, and feel as though the induced ego death from the psychedelic trip left me with a small to non-existent ego if there was one to begin with.
I can't but feel broken inside because of my lack of selfish behavior. I live in the most consumerist and hence ego driven society in the world. We have, as it stands, the biggest ego-maniac the world has seen at the helm of the country. All of this makes me feel uneasy inside as if something were lacking or needs to be addressed. As a formerly diagnosed schizophrenic (the diagnosis is now ADD with psychotic disorder), I have experienced psychosis, which has devasted my ego, as I understand psychosis to be the anathema to a whole and compartmentalized mind (sounds like an oxymoron; but, that's what a normal person ought to be like, strange).
I've seen psychologists and psychiatrists and nothing seems to help. I've tried the artificial route of inducing a sense of ego by stimulant use (in psychiatry and psychology this is how stimulants are viewed as, ego 'hardening'); but, that's a dead end.
Is anyone else in this boat, or has been in such a state of affairs?
The days go by and no regret is building up inside of me for not taking action or participating in 'life'. I don't feel helpless anymore (I used to), nor do I feel like I need help (do I?). It's just that it's very hard to find people in a like state of mind.
Wallows away...
I've come to the conclusion that through many years of reading about Buddhism, Stoicism, and the likes that the biggest obstruction to happiness is the ego. I've tried mushrooms, once, and feel as though the induced ego death from the psychedelic trip left me with a small to non-existent ego if there was one to begin with.
I can't but feel broken inside because of my lack of selfish behavior. I live in the most consumerist and hence ego driven society in the world. We have, as it stands, the biggest ego-maniac the world has seen at the helm of the country. All of this makes me feel uneasy inside as if something were lacking or needs to be addressed. As a formerly diagnosed schizophrenic (the diagnosis is now ADD with psychotic disorder), I have experienced psychosis, which has devasted my ego, as I understand psychosis to be the anathema to a whole and compartmentalized mind (sounds like an oxymoron; but, that's what a normal person ought to be like, strange).
I've seen psychologists and psychiatrists and nothing seems to help. I've tried the artificial route of inducing a sense of ego by stimulant use (in psychiatry and psychology this is how stimulants are viewed as, ego 'hardening'); but, that's a dead end.
Is anyone else in this boat, or has been in such a state of affairs?
The days go by and no regret is building up inside of me for not taking action or participating in 'life'. I don't feel helpless anymore (I used to), nor do I feel like I need help (do I?). It's just that it's very hard to find people in a like state of mind.
Wallows away...
Comments (89)
Well, if there is no desire to be egotistical then, there are some options;
1. One doesn't equate one's ego with selfishness.
2. One is selfless (hence no ego?)
3. One is just desireless.
4. Being egotistical has no meaning for said person.
I seem to fit each one of those points to some degree or another, though I think I lean towards point 4. Giving rise to my self-assessment that the prefix to being egotistical is lacking somewhere.
Just today, someone from a large hiking group took a photo from my instagram account and re-posted about me on their account and it generated hundreds of likes; I like being small and unknown, where I have only a tiny yet intimate handful of friends, so I felt really anxious when I saw the post. It has nothing to do with your ego, because the ego itself is willed in both positive and negative directions, just like pride - that can also be a problem in as much as it can be important - or even love where people bond and form attachments to the wrong type of person just as much as they can love for the right reasons. Happiness is a decision, it a process and one that needs to be honest and well thought out and the ego represents nothing other than making good or bad decisions.
The ego is a concept - the self or the experience you have of you or the 'I' - and so you are the subject based on the actions you choose to do. To give up entirely on yourself is to avoid responsibility and yet treat that avoidance as though it were virtuous. How is doing nothing a virtue? This sacrificial concept has deluded many religious people into assuming that experiencing and expressing oneself as an activity is somehow bad, only because bad people - those who are egocentric - do so. Completely cutting something off will not save you from the risks of making mistakes, on the contrary, it is no different to a bystander who watches someone else commit a crime and does nothing about it while pretending he is guilt-free because he did not act. Inaction is just as much an evil.
As a subject, when your activities - love, anger, passion, kindness, peace - are authentic, you become the subject of your activities and so you begin to experience - the actual activity - and not the experience of your ego, which is only formed when you identify your reality synthetically, such as the narcissism of egocentricity. The point is, there is no ego, there is only experience and the responsibility you have. Not sure why it would take a monk a lifetime sitting in isolation on a mountain to figure that out.
To be alive is all there is. Buddhism doesn't speak to ego, it is a Westernized concept. Buddhism speaks to moderation in life.Everyone is different. To search for people, a community, is to to search for sharing. What do you wish to share?
I get the existential postmodernist drift; but, never really cared to feel obligated in some way to take life by its horns and tackle it with resounding action. I ain't no lawyer nor priest, I don't see myself in an ashram or temple. I take the Cynic attitude of letting life deal whatever it has in store for me (did I mention that I had a mental breakdown when I was 17?). It's true that I isolate myself; but, not to such a degree as others are infatuated with themselves to stare at a screen, post what I had for lunch or dinner, and then text someone to keep me preoccupied with random bullshitting.
Life is surreal, no doubt. I just enjoy life in a solipsistic manner at home, in bed.
Addressing your Kantian drift, I don't have any duty to fulfill, I gave up on college, and will most likely work from home online making some spare change to complement my disability pay. My desire to fulfill a duty, say, was already decided when I was discharged from the military, medically, under honorable conditions. So, I tried and failed. I don't feel like a failure though, had I not tried would have been worse.
In a Sisyphean or Wittgensteinian manner, I simply disregard the task of making right the wrongs of the world. It's not my cup of tea, maybe for others but not me.
I have a rich inner life despite the above sentiments. I enjoy living, I don't feel in pain. The depression is manageable. The psychosis is a thing of the past, as far as I can tell. I have no complaints towards other people for my state of affairs. It's just me and my mom, and I find meaning in supporting her morally, financially, and with a sense of care.
Perhaps, what I'm getting at in all my rambling is the lack of care in life that I see. I've worked retail, in a cinema, and gardening and all people care about is their sphere of interest. I rebel against this lack of care for other people. It bothers me that people can't or don't want to care about the welfare of others. I look with envy towards Scandinavian countries or other social democracies, which are so different from the American idolization of the individual or self.
I don't want to end this post with the characteristic feelings of philosophical pessimism, such as; resignation and futility. I'll keep on squeaking by in life.
I'd like to share my care for other people; but, I lack the compassion to do so. I feel bitter inside from the realization that people don't care as much as I would hope they would.
Yes, people are what they are and it is not up to us to expect them to be otherwise. We can only be ourselves and share what we wish to share.
How does one respond to this state of affairs? Pick up the trash and throw it away or just let it pile up and create an even stronger cognitive dissonance?
I think you are confusing two types of being "egoless." The first, which is the one that you seem to apply to yourself, comes from having an inadequately formed or realized self. I guess a philosopher would say lack of or inadequacy of will. If it's a problem, it's a psychological or philosophical problem.
On the other hand, my understanding of egolessness as described by Taoism, Buddhism, and other similar philosophies is that it refers to surrendering of ego, will. This process applies to people who already have a well-formed ego and will. It represents a recognition that our self is an illusion which leads to desire and suffering. Final surrender of the will is what they call enlightenment. If it's a problem, it is a spiritual problem.
At this point I generally call on @Wayfarer to step in. In my opinion, he has the best grasp of these types of issues on the forum.
We do the best we can. I have diverse interests that allow me to learn more about myself and life, always in moderation with no expectations other than what unfolds. Your best and only teacher is yourself.
Quoting Mr Phil O'Sophy
I don't agree. See my response to PMcP's original post.
Quoting TimeLine
I like your understanding of "ego." I'm not sure if, or how, it's different from the ones I was describing. Almost seems like a combination of both.
No wonder, that's standard questioning from Eastern European parents towards their male children :rofl:
Quoting TimeLine
:chin: Hmmm someone who doesn't understand what monks do... Right :confused:
Quoting Mr Phil O'Sophy
I agree. From what I've seen from Posty on the forum, he seems like a person who doesn't know what they want. It is not infrequent for Posty to radically change aims - one day Posty says he is an idealist and has decided to go back to University to study philosohpy - another Posty says that he will work with a friend on supplement business. These frequent and quick changing in thinking is, I believe, an important clue. I think Posty may contextualise this inability to anchor himself in some purpose or way of life as "egolessness".
Not me!
Posty is just a boat without a rudder, moved by the whims of his desire. The more he limits his desire the better off he will be, methinks. Self-determination is overrated.
Does that bother you?
You seem to have had some reason for pointing it out though. If you want we can go over said reason. No prejudice, just proposing a thought.
No criticism, just observation. I'm my favorite topic as well.
I can only thank the moderators and administrators, you included, for making it possible for me to discuss these matters rather than holding them inside. *Checks if I have enough money in the bank to support this forum*.
Can a person be without ego? In my model, no.
In common parlance, "ego" means a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.
self-esteem, self-importance, self-worth, self-respect, self-image, self-confidence
The latin "ego" is the first person pronoun, I.
The psychoanalytic meaning of "ego" is the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity.
On most counts, you seem to have (to be) an ego; you are a definite "I", not some nebula who isn't sure if you really exist or not.
Do you feel like your personality, your "you", is maybe not quite a fully realized personality? Do you think your personal identity is not complete? Do you feel that you carry out reality testing fairly well? How have you experienced psychosis (it doesn't seem to be "one size fits all")?
Who is your current avatar?
I honestly, don't understand the context where one has a 'realized personality', it sounds like some kind of metaphysical thing. I do have an anti-social or verging on schizotypical personality, so that's quite a pickle.
Maybe, I should prepare for a really bad midlife crisis if I make it that far?
Quoting Bitter Crank
Yes, I think I am able to tell fact from fiction.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Mainly a feeling of infinitesimally small significance in the grand scheme of things. Leaves me feeling quite futile, although that hasn't happened in the recent past. Other instances would include feeling inadequate or of low-self esteem. The most recent psychotic or verging on the psychotic was the belief that I was sexually abused as a child. I have good reason to believe this might have happened, though nothing definitive.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Nel Noddings, a feminist philosopher, and public educator.
None of that sounds like psychosis to me, but who am I to judge?
Quoting Posty McPostface
Pickle-Ish indeed.
Sometimes when I look back at my life, and some of the screwy, maladaptive, self-defeating behavior I have displayed on occasion, I sometimes wonder how many screws were (or are) loose. Like, how was I so self-deceived that I thought I would be a successful high school teacher (I flunked student teaching; that was a clue, maybe? Do you think?) Why did I keep taking short term jobs that I knew damn well I would loathe after 15 minutes? Why do I have so many problems with people in authority?
How come I so often didn't perceive just how counter-productive some of my behavior was on the job, and how pissed off supervisors were getting? Or did I just not care? Do I have an antisocial streak? Could be.
I like to be around people for a while, but then enough is enough. I then need a quiet, empty room to recover in. I can see the good sense in a psychiatrist's warning that if I wasn't careful, I'd end up being one of those old guys sitting on his porch with a rifle yelling at the neighbor's kids to get off his lawn.
That was 30 years ago and a) I've been careful b) I don't own a rifle, c) I don't have a porch, and d) the neighbor's kids don't bother me. Fuck the lawn.
Maybe one should just chalk it up to the psychopathology of everyday life. Isn't being deluded a default condition? A supervisor at the U seemed like such a mature stable person. A happy woman, church lady, competent administrator, mother, wife. One day she up and divorced her husband and married an employee half-her-age -- my replacement after I quit the job, as it happened.
Who knows just how crazy everybody actually are? (everybody actually is or actually are?)
Just another observation.
It's like 2 am and I'm feeling insightful.
I was always an empathetic soul, moreso than others from by my take. When I was 8, I cried for a week for being separated from my teacher. Then, around the same time (must have been some feature of the brain being developed) I realized that one day my parents would die, which left me in a sorry predicament. I still think about my mother passing, and it troubles me. At my age, what a pathetic thing, and how much that emotion and sense of emotional dependency I have towards my mum are even more pathetic.
Maybe I belong in a Charlie Chapin skit or something of that sort?
The point about ‘ego’ is not that there’s anything intrinsically the matter with it. It’s ego-centrism that is a problem - ‘the world revolves around me’. Everyone is like that at some point in their lives, usually as adolescents. Part of the getting of wisdom is learning that it doesn’t. An even bigger part is realising that others feel the same way- we all have the same issues, the same anxieties and fears. Really understanding that naturally inclines you to being less ego-centred. I think learning to be useful to others is a great antidote to ego-centricity.
At the same time, being confident in your abilities is not necessarily ego-centric. If you’re called on to do some task, then you need to approach it confidently, and in that sense approach it with belief in your ability. Provided that belief is well-founded, there’s nothing too much the matter with it. But in Western culture, the ‘individualist ethos’ is powerful and it tends towards nourishing a naturally ego-centred view of life, that what counts is ‘what is good for me’. That is something to be aware of.
Good observation. I do, and it does. I did have some really rewarding, good job experiences, but I didn't know how to make more of them happen.
Just another observation.
Yes and no. It's hard to explain, and once again I'm going to be talking about 'me'. So, I was born and raised in the states but moved around the age of 12-13 to Poland. It's hard to state how much my father changed from a solid, stoic (he's the one that gave me The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, he's also very Aristotelian), and hard working person (He used to have me watch him working on patients as a dentist when I was very young), to a (now in Poland) selfish, non-existent (would go to the "library" all day), empty/wife beating person. Keep in mind that he was an immigrant from the Soviet bloc at the time, when he left Poland and found his way to America. He worked his way up the social ladder, starting as a roofer to getting his licence and living in the canyons of North Hollywood. A bona fide case of coming from rags to riches.
I was not necessarily sad at the time because all the basic amenities were provided to me, and since the dollar goes a lot further in said countries I had a life that was not in any manner (materially) lacking.
The above is the only reason I have decided to stay in the US rather than living on my own somewhere in a social democracy in Europe. I value what my father was, and reviled what he became when free to satisfy every whim and/or desire.
Basically, my father figure self-destructed when he was no longer under any pressure. Tragic really.
Here's my analysis, as I'm still feeling insightful:
For someone who wants to be himself above all else, employment will be an oppressive, depressing, and anxiety filled journey. An intellectual response (albeit it impractical) would be to reject the entire enterprise and to demand the right to extensive personal liberty within the work context. The practical response would be entrepreneurship. Self-employment for a personal cause, that's where Hanover the high school guidance counselor would have directed you.
Prostitution... His father was an alcoholic, so go figure. You'll think I'm loony but the Russian mob was involved in all this. My mother attests to this.
Needless to say, there are numerous reasons why mushroom farming would not have worked out well.
Yes, entrepreneurship in social causes would have been the ticket had I enough brains at the time to realize that. And the three jobs I really liked (tutoring college students, AIDS prevention, and smoking cessation classes) were all more or less entrepreneurial in nature. I was great at getting programs launched. The guy who was the first director of the AIDS Project where I worked for 7 years was similar -- a great program starter, not so hot as a program administrator. 7 years was about as long as I could stand even the good jobs.
My main problem, Hanover, was that I was an idiot when it came to figuring out how to get along in the world in a productive and happy way. Plus I had a lot of other crap to figure out, like extricating myself from a religious milieu that was increasingly unsatisfactory.
I feel as though I have said enough. Wallows some more.
My guess is that some form of corruption is involved in everything Russian, and it's never clear who is the mob, the government, and an ordinary citizen.
You're telling me that your father found comfort in prostitutes and that was his demise? I suppose that could be, knowing little of Russian culture, but I still smell alcohol in this story.
You must pick them from the cow manure. There is value in those.
And now a teaser designed to solicit additional facts.
Yes, and whatever else being around prostitutes entails. Keep in mind that as a dentist there's easy access to a lot of opioid-based pain medication (which I won't rule out). My father is too smart to indulge in alcohol, and combined with his own father's indulgence in that substance and the plethora of abuse from what I heard happened due to this, then there isn't much in terms of psychological comfort to be had from said substance from his perspective.
Just plenty of psychological abuse based on calling my mother schizophrenic, bipolar, nervous, anxious, bla bla bla. You get the point. Somehow, I ended up, by association, with a similar attitude to my problems.
Me: Dad, why?
Dad: Your schizophrenic, so keep quiet.
I actually think BC, as he is now at least, would have made a good entrepreneur. He seems quite clear-headed, and also quite thorough & methodical when discussing a particular subject. He also seems to have good social skills, though maybe a little too ideologically motivated, at least for certain kinds of entrepreneurship. But that's the impression I get solely from what I've seen of him on PF.
Yes, there's the mentality over there to view people as symptoms or in stronger cases pathologic problems, and not view them as humans. I don't know how or why (given that Eastern European countries produce some of the best doctors and medical professionals, the education there is really up there, as I tried studying medicine myself during my stay there) this sentiment emerged; but, it's a devastating way to view a child let alone a person, as a human being.
Sure. Here in Eastern Europe mental illness is something to be ashamed of, something you should keep as hidden as possible, because it can be used against you. If people hear it, they look at you differently. But, sometimes that can also be a good thing, because it stops you from wasting your time with the wrong people.
Hmmm - I wouldn't put it like that, because even our doctors look down upon the mentally ill. It's a cultural attitude, and I think the cultural attitude prevails over the science. The "science" of mental illness is also a bit of a large word - I don't think we really have a science.
But, to be honest, once you accept to be humiliated, and once you stop caring about the appearances - it doesn't matter to you anymore what others think. What others think can neither hurt you nor benefit you. That old grandfather who buys second-hand shirts and travels economy class dressed like a hobo may just happen to be the billionaire owner of Ikea :rofl:
Quoting Posty McPostface
Quoting Posty McPostface
Well, sounds like your father had a very hard life and worked very hard. So who can really blame such a man - you know, at some point you get tired of all the days working from morning to night - I'm speculating but maybe he just wanted to enjoy the prostitutes and these things that he didn't have access to when he was young, no? I mean when you work super hard like that, at some point the stress certainly gets to you. I imagine that at some point the desire to enjoy those things that you foregone when you were young certainly comes up.
The man is a difficult case to analyze from my perspective, as I'm obviously biased. I grew up with the image of a hard-working person who suffered arrhythmia from his job and cared for us. Then you move to another part of the world, where he was from, and you see (or in my case didn't see, as he was in the "library" all the time) a completely different type of behaviour. I'm befuddled.
To put it more plainly, he was an excellent actor hiding something from everyone to see. What that this is or was is a mystery and will remain a mystery to me.
Ok, enough ruminating for one day...
Thanks!
Hmm yeah, but pretty much any Eastern European man would try to hide something like this (going to prostitutes), from his family, no? I mean everyone is sort of divided on this issue - I mean obviously he did want to care about you and the family, but he also wanted to go to the "library".
Thanks. I read "The Road Less Traveled" and at least one of his other books, "People of the Lie," probably 15 years ago. I enjoyed them, although they definitely had more of a religious slant that I usually like. "People of the Lie," if I remember correctly was pretty dark and biblical.
Up until last year, I worked for my entire engineering career, 29 years, for the same company with people I love doing work that I enjoy, am good at, and was meant to do. That doesn't mean I wasn't miserable much of the time, but that was me, not my job or my life. What else should I have been doing other than using the talents I have been given to earn a good living for my family and do productive and worthwhile work.
Entrepreneurism is not an option for someone without strong self-confidence and drive. Working for a company run by others doing what you are good at is a better option for those of us who are not as dynamic as you perhaps are. It's naive to be recommending it to PMcP, who is questioning whether or not he even has a self.
The thing about the internet is that there's so much opportunity to be realized just from sitting at home. I have a friend whom I gave the idea to start a supplement company with buying the supplements penny cheap from China (can be done through Alibaba) and outsourcing the packaging and shipping. It's really a one-man job and doesn't require too much oversight once you get the thing going. Last I spoke with him, he was making 50k a month sitting at home and just playing with himself. He's still on the 10'th page of Google search, so there's A LOT of more potential for growth. He has invited me to move with him to Las Vegas due to cheaper living costs and lower taxes and pay for my rent and living expenses and a good wage for doing nothing really. The only reason I haven't jumped on the wagon is that my mother is going through a division of joint assets with my cold and aloof father. Once the whole thing is settled and ends with a happy ending, then I will most likely move over there to be more independent and self-sufficient rather than living on disability and supplementing my income from a guy who does the same thing and makes 400k a month. So, there is hope and I don't feel depressed these days by a wide margin.
Very wise advice
Very true. I think the internet is the future - many internet entrepreneurs will be driving Ferraris in 20 years, while lawyers, bankers, doctors, etc. will be driving horses! :lol:
People do not realise it, but at the rate things are moving now, pretty much the entire world will become digital, especially in regards to commerce. All commerce will be moving online.
That's not true. Entrepreneurs appear to be self-confident because people identify them as taking risks, and it is true that they do take risks. But taking risks is not synonymous with having a strong self-confidence.
I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you for sure that my fear response is a lot more sensitive and strong than for most people. Inwardly I am never confident, and always think whatever I do will fail. I have also been diagnosed and put on medicine (no longer take the meds) for generalised anxiety disorder (GAD), hypochondria, and OCD. Outwardly, to all my friends - they would say I am really confident. But the outward is just a show - I've learned that not displaying fear allows me to control situations better, so I hide it - I've learned to ignore it and act in spite of it.
So this is a sort of cultural prejudice that the entrepreneur is this sort of "super-human". It's actually an excuse - they don't try their hand at entrepreneurship because "it's not for them".
A certain dose of arrogance helps in being an entrepreneur - and stubbornness too. But it needs to be a rational kind of arrogance and stubbornness - not the kind that makes you take bad business decisions.
Quoting T Clark
Yes, I would say this part is required - you must really want it - for whatever reason. Whether that's the money, the independence, the power to change something, etc.
Quoting T Clark
No, that's just a way to stay in your comfort zone. You never grow that way, so if your life is about feeling safe, sure, do that, but otherwise I wouldn't recommend it because you'll regret it later.
Quoting T Clark
Why? Try searching Google for "entrepreneur anxiety" and you'll be amazed at how many entrepreneurs struggle with anxiety - and also other mental illnesses. Almost a majority of entrepreneurs suffer of mental illness.
https://www.inc.com/john-brandon/49-of-entrepreneurs-deal-with-a-mental-disorder-heres-how-to-cope.html
I would say that if you learn to control it and manage it, being "different" is an advantage as an entrepreneur.
Most people have this fairy tale idea of the entrepreneur as some kind of invincible hero who always succeeds at whatever he touches - a sort of Midas. But that's not true - he succeeds because he puts in literarily almost non-stop working hours for many many years, and battles through whatever comes his way, whether that is mental illness, fear, lack of finances, etc. - whatever comes his way, he will bear it, and like a bull not get his eyes off the ball, not give up.
By the way man, I meant to ask you if you don't mind sharing this, what's his main lead generation method? (I suppose it's not search engines granted his position - does he do Adwords?) You can reply by PM if you want to.
It's still not for me, but I respect and admire what you have done.
Why are bulls so interested in the ball?
*Bulling balls
This is also a fairy tale, one we often hear from entrepreneurs. The successful ones, of course. The ones who give TED talks extolling the virtues of failure and reminiscing about the days when they lived on gruel, and so on and on.
Quoting T Clark
Quoting Agustino
This is a careless comment Gus. If you're, say, a civil engineer, then working for an established company is the best way to develop your craft, because it provides the resources, variety of projects, and administrative support to allow you to focus on your specialist tasks. Sometimes, security is necessary to give you the space to progress. Think also of what academia does for scientists: it is not an easy option, but rather the proper context in which they can concentrate on what they're interested in. How useful is it for an engineer to have to worry about business when what they really want to do is build great dams?
And I say this as someone who, perhaps like you, gave up working for other people and started a business.
I have not personally known an entrepreneur who had it easy, especially not in the beginning. Even doctors who had worked for 20+ years, when they first started on their own they had quite a rough patch. Though some entrepreneurs have it easier than others, obviously. I would put IT entrepreneurs like us in that category actually - basically no transportation logistics, no inventory management, heavily automated (because online), don't depend on work geographically, etc. It's quite a simple business really.
Quoting jamalrob
Oh, interesting - I actually am a civil engineer by degree. There is a reason why I'm not working as a civil engineer and it's precisely this - it's difficult to start a business as a civil engineer.
Quoting jamalrob
That's not what I meant. Sure, in the beginning, as an engineer, you need to work for an established company to develop your craft. 5, 10, 20 years. But if you keep working after that in the same conditions, then almost certainly you've stopped growing. Either you must change position, or you must start on your own, a consulting company, a general contractor, etc.
Me too.
Quoting Agustino
But changing position, taking on more responsibility and so on, can also be done in an established company. In any case, you were dead wrong to respond to T Clark's comment, "working for a company run by others doing what you are good at is a better option ...", by saying "no, that's just a way to stay in your comfort zone". It isn't always.
T Clark and Agustino are the only philosophical civil engineers I know, so I'm guessing it's just a delightful coincidence.
Seems like a dialect issue; amateur has a negative con' over here in Ammuurica.
Quoting jamalrob
Oh right, how many other aspiring career musicians do you find around here, other than old @Terrapin Station, who seems to have disappeared? :rofl:
Yes, also in the UK, but I like to emphasize the word's etymology, according to which it means someone who does something for the love of it, not for the money.
Quoting Noble Dust
Wayfarer is a musician I believe, and I noodle on a cute little curved soprano sax from time to time.
More interesting than that, what's the correlation between civil engineering and web development :rofl:
Ah fuck, I just got schooled by the bossman. Whatever, I'll pretend I have a goal-post-moving argument that grabs sufficient attention so-as to prevent common knowledge of my current ass-kicking-in-progress *ca-ching* DONE :100:
Quoting jamalrob
I do remember Wayfarer as a keyboardist of some sort; I know a few others who tinkle the keys, but I can only remember TS as someone who is/was apparently a semi/full professional musician, other than myself.
Yeah, I've never met others either.
I actually know several guys I studied with who went into programming of one kind or another.
:yawn:
Well yeah, programming sure. A lot of civil engineering involves programming too - finite element analysis, parametric modelling, etc. all can't do without programming.
I know about parametric EQ!
Ah yes, I see. Me, I sacrificed my glorious musical talents to Mammon and my creative spirit was crushed by the relentless imperatives of capital. :wink:
What about it?
God, fuck off; too close to home right now. :rofl:
I'm currently wrestling with my desire to express the inward musical drive, against the insanity of Mammon himself; do I actually want to sacrifice my precious gift at his feet? Sell my soul to America?
Oh, is it?
Oh, I never practice. I just write dope shit.
Yeah, a web developer is a civil engineer who has gone to sleep :naughty:
Huh, how is that so?
You don't have to be real smart.
Yasir Arafat was a civil engineer, but I guess that doesn't count.