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Heaven and Hell

René Descartes February 23, 2018 at 05:21 11050 views 27 comments
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Comments (27)

foo February 23, 2018 at 06:55 #155765
Reply to René Descartes

Have you watched The Good Place? A clever show.

I would like there to be a Heaven that is much like life at its best down here. I don't want there to be a Hell, and fortunately I don't think there is one.
René Descartes February 23, 2018 at 08:03 #155789
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Roke February 23, 2018 at 20:16 #155928
I think they're most usefully treated as metaphors for how you should expect your inner world to turn out based on the way you live. In a sense, nobody ever really gets away with anything.

Taken more literally, the concepts are deeply problematic. Eternity has a way of trivializing all things. It could never be a just and proportionate consequence to anything. And if they're fundamentally unjust, the dichotomy itself, as a package deal, is basically hell.
Rich February 23, 2018 at 21:30 #155967
The way I view it, is that our memories persist in the fabric of the universe and these memories (call it Karma if you wish) stay with us as a transcendental life passing through multiple physical lives. We actually experience this as inherited or innate traits and skills.
Youseeff February 24, 2018 at 00:52 #156006
BC February 24, 2018 at 01:26 #156008
Reply to Youseeff I remember hearing the skit that Rowan Atkinson does here from a BBC recording quite a long time ago. The script was very similar, but it was somebody else doing it--different voice, different pronunciation, accent, etc. It's still at least moderately amusing.
T Clark February 24, 2018 at 02:10 #156013
Quoting René Descartes
Most religions have a belief in some sort of afterlife. Taking specifically the belief in a heaven and a hell, I would like people's opinions on what these would look like.


I have an idea for an afterlife that is somewhere between heaven and hell. I've thought about it a lot and I think it is fair and just. All of us will have to relive all the pain we've caused others. Once we're done, we move on. I'm not a bad guy, but I've hurt people. I'm willing to get what I deserve. Hitler won't be tortured for eternity, but he will have to face the pain of the millions of people he killed, tortured, and destroyed. That should keep him busy for millions of years.

Do I think such a system exists? No.
René Descartes February 24, 2018 at 02:42 #156022
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T Clark February 24, 2018 at 02:44 #156024
Quoting René Descartes
It's a bit like the ide of purgatory. The more you have sinned, the longer you take to get rid of your sin through reflection before going to heaven.


It seems fair and just to me, but then, what does God care about what I think is fair and just.
René Descartes February 24, 2018 at 02:47 #156026
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René Descartes February 24, 2018 at 03:26 #156031
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BC February 24, 2018 at 04:06 #156040
Reply to foo I enjoyed Damned, Chuck Palahniuk's 2011 novel about hell.

The narrator is a barely pubescent girl who dies and is whisked off to hell. Hell is dirty -- dusty popcorn balls on the sticky floors, oceans of spilt semen, mountains of aborted fetuses, etc. There are, of course, demons and tortures, but they don't seem all that bad. Many of the damned work in Hell's call center where they annoy people (who are alive, of course) at mealtimes to conduct tedious and pointless surveys about things like their toothpick preferences. As noted, it's always mealtime somewhere.
Santanu February 24, 2018 at 05:24 #156055
The concept of heaven and hell is a self control regulatory mechanism. It is quite clear that people cannot control others totally by laws or even by force. Hence by imposing threat of heaven or hell guides that you do "good" while you live. This is probably more efficient than total policing.
Now what constitutes "good" depends on the religion
René Descartes February 24, 2018 at 09:12 #156115
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BC February 24, 2018 at 19:08 #156255
Quoting René Descartes
What the hell are you reading?


Damned, Chuck Palahniuk's 2011 novel about hell. It's an absurd comedy, maybe like hell itself.

Palahniuk's other novels include Fight Club.
bahman February 24, 2018 at 22:59 #156306
Reply to René Descartes
Some people enjoy pain. We are not naturally inclined to pain because it is correlated to body destruction. It is our fabric which dictates this.
TheMadFool February 25, 2018 at 09:53 #156423
Heaven = happiness
Hell = suffering

What more need be said?
René Descartes February 26, 2018 at 06:18 #156877
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TheMadFool February 26, 2018 at 06:37 #156880
Quoting René Descartes
What about if one wants to suffer but one is sent to heaven, will one not suffer in heaven instead because one cannot go to hell.


I once tried to start a thread on ''it's impossible for god to punish a masochist'' but it was always deleted. I don't know why.


Of course there are variations in what people mean by heaven or hell. That's why I kept the definition simple. Heaven = happiness (whatever that means to you and Hell = suffering (whatever that means to you).
René Descartes February 26, 2018 at 06:42 #156881
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TheMadFool February 27, 2018 at 06:09 #157210
Quoting René Descartes
I see what you're saying. So do you mean that it is possible for one to have heaven or hell on Earth?


Perhaps. If we take heaven and hell as states rather than places then some of us are in heaven and others in hell.
René Descartes February 27, 2018 at 07:35 #157214
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charleton February 27, 2018 at 13:35 #157323
Quoting René Descartes
Most religions have a belief in some sort of afterlife. Taking specifically the belief in a heaven and a hell, I would like people's opinions on what these would look like.


They look exactly what they are; fantasies.
CuddlyHedgehog February 27, 2018 at 13:51 #157327
Reply to charleton I agree. Waste of time trying to think what they might look like. Now, what would Aideen the Fairy look like, I wonder?
charleton February 27, 2018 at 13:57 #157329
Reply to CuddlyHedgehog
I know what Aideen the Fairy looks like. She visits me everynight and gives me a neck massage!!!

User image
CuddlyHedgehog February 27, 2018 at 15:54 #157351
Reply to charleton You just googled that, didn't you
charleton February 27, 2018 at 18:42 #157387
Reply to CuddlyHedgehog
No - Se is in fact real!!! Honestly!