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What is so special about the texts of the Bible?

JustSomeGuy December 31, 2017 at 14:28 8100 views 21 comments
There are plenty of ancient texts--philosophical, religious, historical, fictional. What is it about the texts of the old and new testaments that spawned such encompassing religions based on them? Look at the gospels specifically, since they're arguably what started the Christian church. They're just some stuff written about a guy who said some stuff about life and God and whatnot. As far as "teachings" go, there's nothing (as far as I can see) that's special about them compared with other philosophical texts. Sure the Tao Te Ching is still around and there are religious followers of the principles, but compared to Christianity it's a very small number of people. Even looking at the Iliad, an epic story and one of the oldest texts we have, there was never (as far as I know) a religion based on it. Why not? Is it just chance? Is the only true cause of the explosion of Christianity Constantine? Did he really single-handedly create the world we live in today? It's just fascinating to me that these ancient texts written by some random dudes have so significantly shaped modern humanity.
I hope this is coherent, I'm currently both ill and sleep-deprived so my apologies if anything I say is silly or unclear. None of this was well thought out.

It's just hard for me to believe that the insanely huge impact these writings have had on the world is nothing but coincidence and certain things lining up correctly. To be clear, I'm not arguing for the legitimacy of the Biblical texts. It just seriously puzzles me. There has to be something about them that's different.

Comments (21)

BC December 31, 2017 at 14:56 #138670
Quoting JustSomeGuy
they're arguably what started the Christian church


The life Jesus Christ was the event that started the Christian church. The nascent church preceded the New Testament.

There was Jesus, the disciples, and the Jewish community in which they were situated. Then there was Paul. There were groups of followers situated in synagogues, some of whom were not Jewish. There were 'house churches', which were groups of early believers who gathered together.

It was by the efforts of the early church that the New Testament was created. The collected writings in the New Testament eventually came to be seen as "the founding texts" but it was, actually, the other way around.
Agustino December 31, 2017 at 15:12 #138674
Deleted User December 31, 2017 at 15:18 #138676
The Christian Scriptures are self-declared to be the Word of God; in that, they are unchangeable and must maintain a perfect degree of logic. Unlike to Koran, which has many "updates" to attempt to keep it relevant, the Christian scriptures does not allow for extra special revelation to be added and contradict prior writings.
BC December 31, 2017 at 15:25 #138678
Quoting JustSomeGuy
What is it about the texts of the old and new testaments that spawned such encompassing religions based on them?


The Old Testament is a book that reflects the growth and formation of a religion and a people (the Jews) over an extended period of time. Judaism probably started out as a one of several cults in the mixed populations on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean. It either started as, or became, monotheistic, which was something of a novelty. Animal sacrifice was likely the central religious act of the cult, which developed into temple worship.

Judaism produced a number of leaders (prophets, kings, priests, etc.) who were vigorous preachers whose preaching and teaching was intensely meaningful and valuable for the solidarity of the Jewish people, and were preserved. Again, the religion preceded and developed along with it's sacred texts. The texts didn't come first. The cult came first.

There is a difference between the religion of Jerusalem, Athens, and Rome: The Greco-Roman gods were vested with great power, but their theogony (founding myth story) is much more "human" than the invisible, solitary, ethically demanding god of the Jews.

The Jews were independent at various times, but a good share of their history was spent either under threat of various enemies, or under the thumb of much larger powers. Their history naturally affected the shape of their religious story.

No one can say whether there was a more inspiring religion than the Jews, because most of the competing religions did not survive--they were crushed by the Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans, Christians, and Moslems. Zoroastrianism (ancient and native to Persia) has survived, while the various religions of south Asia have survived and flourished.

There isn't a lot of religious writing from the ancient world that we can compare to the OT or NT. (There was likely a large body of religious material in the ancient world, but, like the once-extensive literature of Greece and Rome, very little has survived.
JustSomeGuy December 31, 2017 at 15:31 #138679
Reply to Bitter Crank
I'm aware of all that, I guess I just chose my words poorly. The Church as we know it today is completely different from those early followers of Christianity. It's a huge, organized institution. This is the entity I was referring to. So I guess to put it in different terms, my question is why the Christian church grew from what you described into what it is today. Why specifically that doctrine, as opposed to any of the other philosophical or religious ideologies from during and before that time? Nearly 60% of the world population is either Christian or Muslim (around 30% each). Both of these religions have their origin in the texts of the old testament, with their main holy texts being based on the account of one individual who was interpreting or fulfilling prophecies from these texts. And yet less than 0.2% of the world are Jewish, a religion which is also based on many of these same texts. So is it because of Jesus and Muhammad specifically? What do they have in common? Sure they claimed to be messengers of God, but so did the people who wrote the Tanakh, right? So why Christianity and Islam but not Judaism?
JustSomeGuy December 31, 2017 at 15:40 #138681
Quoting Bitter Crank
No one can say whether there was a more inspiring religion than the Jews, because most of the competing religions did not survive--they were crushed by the Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans, Christians, and Moslems. Zoroastrianism (ancient and native to Persia) has survived, while the various religions of south Asia have survived and flourished.

There isn't a lot of religious writing from the ancient world that we can compare to the OT or NT. (There was likely a large body of religious material in the ancient world, but, like the once-extensive literature of Greece and Rome, very little has survived


I suppose this is the best answer that can be given. I still wonder if there's anything inherent in the teachings themselves that allowed things to play out as they did, though. Why the followers of those ideologies came to power and were able to wipe out competing ideologies. I suppose it could just be chance.
BC December 31, 2017 at 15:41 #138682
Reply to JustSomeGuy In a nutshell, Christianity and Islam are both missionary religions. That is, they believe they can, should, and ought to convert people. Judaism is based on blood: one is born a Jew. One can convert to Judaism, but that hasn't resulted in many new Jews in the world.

Both Christianity and Islam were aggressive in their missionary efforts. They both employed a lot of talented people to go forth and spread the word, one way or another.
JustSomeGuy December 31, 2017 at 15:41 #138683
Quoting Lone Wolf
Unlike to Koran


I'm not sure why you compare it to the Quran when Christianity and Islam have nearly equal numbers of followers.
BC December 31, 2017 at 15:43 #138685
Reply to JustSomeGuy The Koran and the Bible are quite different books, composed by quite different methods. How many believers there are is a separate matter, not related to how the books were composed or compiled.
JustSomeGuy December 31, 2017 at 15:45 #138686
Quoting Bitter Crank
Christianity and Islam are both missionary religions. That is, they believe they can, should, and ought to convert people. Judaism is based on blood: one is born a Jew


Of course. I didn't even consider the ethnic component of Judaism, with that in mind it makes perfect sense.

Reply to Bitter Crank
Yes but I assumed Lone Wolf's reply was an answer to my question of why Christianity spread more than other religions. In that context it does't make sense to compare it to another religion with almost just as many followers.
BC December 31, 2017 at 15:46 #138687
Reply to Lone Wolf People get around this problem by interpreting sacred texts as they like, a perfectly normal procedure.
BC December 31, 2017 at 15:52 #138690
Quoting JustSomeGuy
it does't make sense to compare it to another religion with almost just as many followers.


Sure it does, because similar approaches produced similar results. If you look at the world's major religions, those that actively go out and recruit new members (rather than depending on reproduction) are higher in number and exist in more varied societies.

This is, in some ways, quite unfortunate because some of the non-evangelizing religions might be better for the world, in the long run. But... we have got what we have got.
BC December 31, 2017 at 15:58 #138693
Quoting JustSomeGuy
What is it about the texts of the old and new testaments that spawned such encompassing religions based on them?


Of course, it isn't just those texts. Christianity, in particular, acquired and kept a lot of pagan stuff that its members like a lot. Christmas trees and Easter bunnies have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, except they were picked up from German and Anglo Saxon pagans. Islam picked up the flavor of Arabs, naturally.
JustSomeGuy December 31, 2017 at 15:58 #138694
Quoting Bitter Crank
Sure it does, because similar approaches produced similar results.


Well in that regard, yes, but it seemed to be the original reply wasn't implying that. When I ask why X has so many followers as opposed to all the other letters, and someone says "Well X has such and such characteristics, unlike Y which has such and such characteristics", the implication is that these differences are why X has so many more followers than Y. But X doesn't have so many more followers than Y. In fact we're due soon to see Islam surpass Christianity, if it hasn't already.
Maybe I read into the original reply something that wasn't there, though. As I said I'm somewhat cognitively impaired at the moment.
Either way I appreciate the insight you've brought to the issue.
BC December 31, 2017 at 16:03 #138698
Quoting JustSomeGuy
I'm somewhat cognitively impaired at the moment.


What time zone are you in? Go back to bed, get some coffee, cook some oatmeal, or open a couple of Mountain Dews, whatever it takes to get your cognitive facilities functioning again.
JustSomeGuy December 31, 2017 at 16:08 #138700
I've had a bad flu for the past few days and feeling ill has made it hard to sleep, so unfortunately there's not much that can be done. I suppose I should probably just stay off of philosophy forums if I'm not in good condition to think clearly.
Deleted User December 31, 2017 at 18:04 #138711
Reply to JustSomeGuy You asked what made the Christian scriptures different than other religious teachings, and that was one thing I found that was different.

Hope you feel better soon!
Deleted User December 31, 2017 at 18:07 #138712
Reply to Bitter Crank
Yes, of course, they interpret passages differently, but the fundamental words don't seem to contradict, at least from what I have seen. Interpretations often contradict, such as those found with Mormons who interpret scriptures very differently than what the original texts declare.
Mitchell December 31, 2017 at 19:08 #138722
Triumph of Christianity

A very interesting and easy read.
Rich December 31, 2017 at 19:38 #138727
Reply to JustSomeGuy The history of Christianity is far more complex than simple text and the history of the Bible as a living and changing document is not the sole or maybe even not the most important reason for the growth of Christianity. Consider it a good marketing tool.
BC January 01, 2018 at 07:42 #138855
Reply to JustSomeGuy Drink lots of fluids, take some ibuprofen, or whatever single medication you prefer for discomfort. Don't mix a bunch of different flu/cold meds -- you can end up with an overdose of OTC medications which can be quite dangerous, especially for the liver. Rest. Eat some food as you feel able. Just accept that you feel horrible and that it will last for a while, then it will go away. If you don't feel better in 10 days, you might want to call your clinic for advice.