My New Age Philosophy: New Age Hedonism
When I am in my most miserable and hopeless state due to an emotional trauma, then my whole entire reality is the most horrible hell. But when I reach a state of full recovery, I am able to see harmony, peace, joy, beauty, and goodness. This is a perception that I never had during that miserable moment. This is a perception that goes beyond a value judgment. In other words, it goes beyond a mere thought and it is like a blind person recovering his sight.
So, I can clearly tell that this is not a matter of my value judgment when I say that I see the peace, harmony, joy, and goodness in my life. This proves that our positive mood and emotional state is the inner light to our lives. I could clearly tell that thoughts themselves of goodness and beauty during my miserable moments did absolutely nothing. I have thought of the idea of getting the help I needed as something good, worthwhile, and beautiful, but my life was still completely empty. I was still in the darkness and could not actually see the goodness of getting that help I needed.
Based on this, I conclude that we might have a sense like sight that allows us to see our entire world as good and beautiful. I would personally call it the "Divine Sense." It is a new sense that has yet to be discovered by science. When we are in a positive mood or emotional state, then that is this sense allowing us to perceive stable qualities of good value as well as enhanced and more profound qualities of good value and beauty in our lives. Likewise, negative emotions such as misery and hopelessness are this sense allowing us to truly see things as horrible, bad, disgusting, etc. That is why I say that positive emotions are an objective good while negative emotions are an objective bad. So, this objective good and bad would be an intrinsic quality (our positive and negative emotions).
So, when a person is completely miserable and hopeless and a person comes along, giving the suggestion to just work at developing a new mindset, then that is only focusing away from one's own inner light which is the very vital and precious thing that allows us to see the goodness in our lives in the first place. It is NOT value judgments and our ways of thinking alone that allow us to see the goodness in our lives. It is our new sense that does. Could a blind person make himself see? No, but he could certainly be deluded into thinking he can. Actually, let me make it a better analogy. It would be like people who think they can see the truth, but are really blind to it.
Edit #1: I am under the impression that people are just denying the existence of my own inner light and expecting me to live by the standard of words alone. Words themselves possess no power in my life to give my life any real joy, good value, etc. I need my inner light (positive emotions) to make that happen. For such a blatant and obvious need to be dismissed and denied as nonexistence, especially such a profound need, then that just really gets to me.
I am fed up with people in my life dismissing my inner light as nonexistence and all in my head. They think it is just my value judgment. But, like I said, value judgments are just words and words themselves are empty in my life without my inner light. The values in my life are something that go beyond words which is a value system that takes it to a higher level than a value system based on words alone going through our minds.
I would call my values the consciousness based values since they are values that focus on our own inner conscious light and darkness rather than just judgments (words) alone. These values focus on what it is like rather than what we judge. For example, what it's like to see the color red is not a matter of value judgment. It is a matter of consciousness. So, if a certain state of mind is truly like something beautiful for you (in my case, a positive emotion) and this beauty transcends mere value judgments, then we would call this a beautiful consciousness based value.
It would be pure goodness itself. Consciousness is everything to our human existence and shouldn't be ignored. If it weren't for consciousness, then we would all be dead. As a matter of fact, we would not be able to perceive any qualities in our lives without it. So, what it all comes down to here is what it's like to judge your life as something good and beautiful. Not a simple matter of just judging your life as something good and beautiful. What I was trying to do here with my whole idea is to present it in such a way that would hopefully convince others so that they would understand my need as a real need and no longer dismiss it as fantasy. There are many mysterious about consciousness that we have yet to know and perhaps my idea is a mystery that I have figured out from personal experience.
Edit #2: Actually, I think my idea is already known. Let me post a person's response and my reply to him:
[b][u]
Other Person's Response:[/u][/b] I think the word you are looking for is "conscience"; "an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior" (Google's definition). You can certainly interpret this as a sense. Luckily for you, science's got you covered already, and the existence of conscience is fully explained by evolutionary psychology.
In other words: you're quite right that humans have this sense (although it's certainly not objective/absolute), and you're quite wrong when you say that science hasn't discovered this yet.
My Reply: This inner voice would not be a thought. Like I said, these are values that go beyond our thoughts.
Other Person's Response: Conscience is not a thought either, it's "an inner feeling or voice", so conscience can also be said to "go beyond our thoughts".
My Reply: I'm not sure, but this could be the idea I was advocating all along. I don't know on this one. But if that were my idea, then why would there be so many people out in this world claiming that the misery and hopeless feelings in our lives can make our lives something truly beautiful if we make something of it? That all goes back to my example with the famous and genius miserable artists.
My idea, according to what you've just said, would be that it can only be our positive emotions which give us this "good voice" (what I call a surge of inner light energy that goes beyond words) while it can only be our negative emotions which can give us this "bad voice" (what I call a surge of inner dark energy that goes beyond words). These emotions are the voices themselves which means that these voices are always there. A stable positive mood would be like a singer constantly humming a good tune while positive emotional states would be like the singer loudly singing a good tune.
Without emotions, then we could only have a neutral voice (a neither good nor bad voice regardless of what we were to think or believe otherwise). These good and bad voices are what make our lives truly matter to us in good or bad ways. Without this voice, then nothing can truly matter to us regardless of what we were to believe otherwise. It would be like a positive and negative charge. Except, consider our emotions to be the positive (good) charges and the negative (bad) charges. Having neither a positive nor negative charge would be no charge at all.
Mixed Emotions: Now, if you were in a situation where you had mixed emotions, then you would be perceiving both good and bad value at the same time. It would be something like 20% good and 80% bad in regards to certain things and situations. It all depends on the degree of positive and negative emotions that are there. So, the fact that these miserable genius artists still saw their lives and art as beautiful means they would have to have had some degree of positive emotion mixed in. Otherwise, they would just be deluding themselves.
So, I can clearly tell that this is not a matter of my value judgment when I say that I see the peace, harmony, joy, and goodness in my life. This proves that our positive mood and emotional state is the inner light to our lives. I could clearly tell that thoughts themselves of goodness and beauty during my miserable moments did absolutely nothing. I have thought of the idea of getting the help I needed as something good, worthwhile, and beautiful, but my life was still completely empty. I was still in the darkness and could not actually see the goodness of getting that help I needed.
Based on this, I conclude that we might have a sense like sight that allows us to see our entire world as good and beautiful. I would personally call it the "Divine Sense." It is a new sense that has yet to be discovered by science. When we are in a positive mood or emotional state, then that is this sense allowing us to perceive stable qualities of good value as well as enhanced and more profound qualities of good value and beauty in our lives. Likewise, negative emotions such as misery and hopelessness are this sense allowing us to truly see things as horrible, bad, disgusting, etc. That is why I say that positive emotions are an objective good while negative emotions are an objective bad. So, this objective good and bad would be an intrinsic quality (our positive and negative emotions).
So, when a person is completely miserable and hopeless and a person comes along, giving the suggestion to just work at developing a new mindset, then that is only focusing away from one's own inner light which is the very vital and precious thing that allows us to see the goodness in our lives in the first place. It is NOT value judgments and our ways of thinking alone that allow us to see the goodness in our lives. It is our new sense that does. Could a blind person make himself see? No, but he could certainly be deluded into thinking he can. Actually, let me make it a better analogy. It would be like people who think they can see the truth, but are really blind to it.
Edit #1: I am under the impression that people are just denying the existence of my own inner light and expecting me to live by the standard of words alone. Words themselves possess no power in my life to give my life any real joy, good value, etc. I need my inner light (positive emotions) to make that happen. For such a blatant and obvious need to be dismissed and denied as nonexistence, especially such a profound need, then that just really gets to me.
I am fed up with people in my life dismissing my inner light as nonexistence and all in my head. They think it is just my value judgment. But, like I said, value judgments are just words and words themselves are empty in my life without my inner light. The values in my life are something that go beyond words which is a value system that takes it to a higher level than a value system based on words alone going through our minds.
I would call my values the consciousness based values since they are values that focus on our own inner conscious light and darkness rather than just judgments (words) alone. These values focus on what it is like rather than what we judge. For example, what it's like to see the color red is not a matter of value judgment. It is a matter of consciousness. So, if a certain state of mind is truly like something beautiful for you (in my case, a positive emotion) and this beauty transcends mere value judgments, then we would call this a beautiful consciousness based value.
It would be pure goodness itself. Consciousness is everything to our human existence and shouldn't be ignored. If it weren't for consciousness, then we would all be dead. As a matter of fact, we would not be able to perceive any qualities in our lives without it. So, what it all comes down to here is what it's like to judge your life as something good and beautiful. Not a simple matter of just judging your life as something good and beautiful. What I was trying to do here with my whole idea is to present it in such a way that would hopefully convince others so that they would understand my need as a real need and no longer dismiss it as fantasy. There are many mysterious about consciousness that we have yet to know and perhaps my idea is a mystery that I have figured out from personal experience.
Edit #2: Actually, I think my idea is already known. Let me post a person's response and my reply to him:
[b][u]
Other Person's Response:[/u][/b] I think the word you are looking for is "conscience"; "an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior" (Google's definition). You can certainly interpret this as a sense. Luckily for you, science's got you covered already, and the existence of conscience is fully explained by evolutionary psychology.
In other words: you're quite right that humans have this sense (although it's certainly not objective/absolute), and you're quite wrong when you say that science hasn't discovered this yet.
My Reply: This inner voice would not be a thought. Like I said, these are values that go beyond our thoughts.
Other Person's Response: Conscience is not a thought either, it's "an inner feeling or voice", so conscience can also be said to "go beyond our thoughts".
My Reply: I'm not sure, but this could be the idea I was advocating all along. I don't know on this one. But if that were my idea, then why would there be so many people out in this world claiming that the misery and hopeless feelings in our lives can make our lives something truly beautiful if we make something of it? That all goes back to my example with the famous and genius miserable artists.
My idea, according to what you've just said, would be that it can only be our positive emotions which give us this "good voice" (what I call a surge of inner light energy that goes beyond words) while it can only be our negative emotions which can give us this "bad voice" (what I call a surge of inner dark energy that goes beyond words). These emotions are the voices themselves which means that these voices are always there. A stable positive mood would be like a singer constantly humming a good tune while positive emotional states would be like the singer loudly singing a good tune.
Without emotions, then we could only have a neutral voice (a neither good nor bad voice regardless of what we were to think or believe otherwise). These good and bad voices are what make our lives truly matter to us in good or bad ways. Without this voice, then nothing can truly matter to us regardless of what we were to believe otherwise. It would be like a positive and negative charge. Except, consider our emotions to be the positive (good) charges and the negative (bad) charges. Having neither a positive nor negative charge would be no charge at all.
Mixed Emotions: Now, if you were in a situation where you had mixed emotions, then you would be perceiving both good and bad value at the same time. It would be something like 20% good and 80% bad in regards to certain things and situations. It all depends on the degree of positive and negative emotions that are there. So, the fact that these miserable genius artists still saw their lives and art as beautiful means they would have to have had some degree of positive emotion mixed in. Otherwise, they would just be deluding themselves.
Comments (64)
What about a person who experiences joy - all the feel-good effects of the mood hormones in fact - through inflicting suffering on others? Are they a new age hedonist?
The thing is that the principles pursued by 'sacred monks' have nothing to do with the pursuit of pleasure. There are principles at stake which are 'transcendent', the irony being that despite your forum ID, you seem to show no understanding of what 'transcendent' might mean to actual 'sacred monks' (be they Hindu, Christian or Buddhist).
Consider it my own personal definition of transcendent then. My positive emotions, for me, are transcending life force of goodness in my life. I would be my own hedonistic monk. Likewise, consider this to also be my own personal good and bad which, for me, is an objective good and bad.
I would like to say one last thing here. My version of a sacred monk might sound like the most simplistic way of life and being. But simple solutions often times are the real solutions. If you had a group of religious people defining the holy life as a tedious and grueling process of obeying a god, self sacrifice, etc., then the atheist could say that how he defines the holy life is just simply making the best of this life all the while having a wonderful and easy life playing video games.
He doesn't have to adhere his life to these false gods. So, I think my simple solution to a transcended way of life and being is the real solution. Unfortunately, I think it is the only way which means that if I ever become unfortunate and struggle with misery throughout my life again, then my life would be completely devoid of all goodness and beauty. Lastly, for a person who obtains positive emotions from harming others, he would be a new age hedonist. But he would be misusing the power of the light for wrongdoing.
So surely this "wrongdoing" must be defined objectively before you can say you have an objective morality?
There are two objective values. The first type would be the ones that situations or people have such as saying that the harmful acts of a criminal are bad or that the altruistic deeds of an empathetic person are good. But in order to truly perceive these objective values, then that requires our objective good (positive emotions) and our objective bad (negative emotions). They would be our own inner light and inner darkness. Again, we can only acknowledge values without our inner light and darkness, but we could not perceive them.
However, if you cannot have two types of objective values, then it can only be our positive emotions which would be the objective good and our negative emotions being the objective bad. You might get the idea that this is a dysfunctional model for society, but it wouldn't be and I will explain why. During my worst miserable moments, I have still chosen to get help and to make wise decisions anyway knowing that they would change my life. Likewise, I still made other wise decisions regardless of my emotional state. This is still a functional model for society.
So, a harmful situation wouldn't be a bad situation and neither would a situation of changing your life to recover your positive emotions be a good decision. They would just simply be decisions we would make anyway knowing that they would simply benefit ourselves and the lives of others But living a lifestyle that involves making wise decisions in the absence of your positive emotions is no way to live or be an artist since such a way of life would be devoid of goodness and beauty. Some people would actually say that there is no such thing as good or that it life does not have to matter to us. They would say to just simply live life as it is. But, based on my idea, goodness would not be a concept or an idea fabricated in the minds of humanity. It would instead be our emotions themselves. I liken goodness and badness to be pure energy itself.
There will be times when there is a clash between what some regard as good as some as bad; the fact that all parties feel good about their decisions/viewpoints doesn't really help to resolve the differences.
I personally think that our emotions are the objective good and bad regardless of what people think. People can have false judgments in regards to objective things. So, our emotions would be an objective good and bad that humanity is not yet awakened to. Our positive emotions are an objective form of wanting and liking since they are the reward wanting and liking in the brain. Yet, if you were to ask many people if they think that their positive emotions are an objective wanting and liking, they would tell you "no." This proves that people are having false judgments regarding their positive emotions. Who knows, our positive emotions could also be the objective good and people are denying this, too!
The purported division of emotions into positive and negative is useful to simplifiers and psychologists who like things about human beings to add up in neat columns, or look good on graphs. Unfortunately (a) emotions are more complicated than these countable things; (b) emotions segue into different emotions, as grief turns to love, or love to dislike, or joy to indifference, and sometimes these different emotions can be in a person at the same time over the same thing; (c) much brilliant art comes from darkness.
I have never experienced the more complicated emotions, what I assume you mean to say a thought form of emotion (i.e. a thought that is an emotional state).. If you mean to say that there can be a thought form of emotion, then I do not think such a thing exists. I think emotions can only be those biochemical induced states.
If you felt a positive emotion of love or joy, then that would be a biochemical induced euphoric state by dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphins. Negative emotions would be dysphoric states such as feelings of hopelessness, despair, and anger. I, myself, have felt a clear division of emotion into the positive and negative categories. So, I can clearly tell that there is a distinction of positive and negative when it comes to emotions just as how there is a clear distinction of positive and negative when it comes to our thoughts. You could either think positive or negative and you could also feel positive or negative emotions.
When you said that grief turns into love, then that grief would be the negative emotion and then the love you felt later on would be a positive emotion. You could also have mixed emotions as well which means you could have a mix of both positive and negative emotions. Lastly, you could create works of art through negative emotions. But that would only be a negative form of inspiration that would yield nothing but bad value to your life since it is nothing but the darkness. The darkness can only make your life pure shit.
If there was a product with a positive (good) rating, another product with a zero (neutral) rating, and another product with a negative (bad) rating, then the product with the negative rating would have a shit rating. It would very likely to be a complete shit of a product. It would be even worse than the product with a zero rating because something bad is always worse than something neutral. All I'm trying to say here is that, as long as your life is bad in any given moment, then it can only be bad in that given moment. If your life is good in any given moment, then it can only be good in that given moment. It's as simple as that.
It's all very well defining good and bad. But what are the implications here?
Why not just shoot heroin all day?
Well, I think thought and emotion interact, indeed they are just our labels for certain notions of what happens in ourselves. There's quite a lot of good stuff written about emotion, including a neat paper by Solomon on 'positive' and 'negative'. One example would interest me: fear is usually a good emotion to have, on most readings, in response to an object of fear, because it motivates you to do the sorts of things it's wise to do when faced with such objects. How does fear fit into your schema?
My view would actually be an upgraded version of hedonism. Like I said, I called it "New Age Hedonism."
A charge could either be positive or negative and you could certainly judge a negative charge to be something good if it was helpful. You could also judge it to be a positive charge. But the negative charge would still be negative. Our emotions are like positive and negative charges, in a way. However, our emotions would be good and bad "charges." So, the positive and negative that applies to our emotions is an objective (intrinsic) good and bad while the positive and negative that applies to charges is simply positive and negative. This means it doesn't matter how you judge your emotional state; a positive emotion can only make your life truly perceived as good and your negative emotions can only make your life truly perceived as bad. This objective good and bad would be an emotional definition of good and bad rather than the definition of good and bad that we as human beings are familiar with.
Too black and white.
Actually, reread my opening post since this is a whole new explanation of my worldview that I think is much better.
How?
I did not simply say that positive emotions are the objective good and negative emotions being the objective bad as that would be too simple. I also introduced the concept of mixed emotions:
Mixed Emotions: Now, if you were in a situation where you had mixed emotions, then you would be perceiving both good and bad value at the same time. It would be something like 20% good and 80% bad in regards to certain things and situations. It all depends on the degree of positive and negative emotions that are there. So, the fact that these miserable genius artists still saw their lives and art as beautiful means they would have to have had some degree of positive emotion mixed in. Otherwise, they would just be deluding themselves.
Lastly, as for life experience and getting out, I do this all the time. I go out in nature and out in the community. So, there is no problem here.
I never said you did, but not that you mention it, it is implied when you label them "positive" and "negative", as that implication is inherit in the words themselves. However, I was referring to the simple fact that you think there are "positive" and "negative" emotions.
Quoting TranscendedRealms
Oh wow, nature? And the community? So vastly experienced. . . . :-}
Yes, I go to the gym and I play sports outside with my family as well as going out and enjoying nature in general. What else is there that you are implying that I should experience?
Don't you ever challenge yourself?
During my miserable moments undergoing emotional trauma, I have still chosen to remain in this life anyway to get the help I needed. So, that was indeed a challenge. However, my life was still complete hell and devoid of all goodness and beauty regardless of what I did with my life in that miserable state.
I am not talking about your nondescript "miserable moments". Everyone feels bad from time to time, you are not special in that regards. Don't you ever purposely do something that scares you? Something that is a big risk? Something that you may fail at?
Such challenges that induce negative emotions would only serve to focus on situations and things themselves and to focus away from my own inner light I need in my life (my positive emotions). So, I am not fooled by those types of people who attempt to trick me into believing in some sort of good and worthwhile life that does not depend upon positive emotions. As for your question, no. I just live my life and enjoy my activities. Lastly, from my personal experience, I am convinced that there are negative emotions and positive emotions.
So you purposely limit your life because you are too weak to face yourself.
Honestly, that does not sound like a healthy well balanced life to me. You are trying to avoid an important aspect of who you are, and I promise you that you will fail.
It would be better if you knew how to handle and accept these "negative" emotions so when the crap really hits the fan you'll be ready to face it. Hiding from yourself never works, somehow you always catch up to yourself.
First off, I do not agree with your definition of weak because I have my own defined terms. I define good and bad different than how most human beings define it and I define weak differently as well. A weak person, to me, would be someone devoid of the inner light. As long as he has the inner light, then he is filled with powerful good life force and he is like a being of light. Lastly, I have struggled 10 whole years with misery. My brain would have surely adapted to it on its own since the brain is a remarkable organ that can adapt to harsh situations. It doesn't matter what your belief system or outlook is.
Your brain would still adapt on its own. The fact that this never happened to me during that whole struggle means that there is no adaptation or character strength that can replace my inner light. Based on this, I am convinced that positive emotions are the inner light and that they are truly all there is to life. I am convinced that the rest of the world is deluded and is only living by empty words. They are just dismissing and leaving out the inner light like it doesn't exist.
I don't really care, I smell weakness.
Quoting TranscendedRealms
Bunch of nonsense.
Quoting TranscendedRealms
I am well aware you think that you are special; however, I don't share that view.
The rest is just babble.
Yes. When we are walking through our personal valleys of death, the horror of it is pretty much 100%. But then, with any luck, we come out of that dark place, into bright sunshine, lush green fields, peace, and serenity.
Quoting TranscendedRealms
Maybe we have a "Divine Sense" but it is not "new" as much as you have recently discovered it. One might identify this sense as an inner light; one might also identify it as the loving presence of Jesus or the Holy Spirit, or an inner illumination. Various terms in various traditions.
Even from a rather dry materialist point of view, we have the capacity to experience what other people would call transcendent peace, happiness, love, beauty, and so on. Whether one calls it Grace or a flood of oxytocin and serotonin, it feels much the same. And so does the opposite -- one's nightmarish experiences.
Quoting TranscendedRealms
Right. "Just snap out of it" is extremely unhelpful advice. If one could just snap out of it, or just upload a new mindset, obviously one would.
Quoting TranscendedRealms
Just tell them to fuck off, and stop casting your pearls before swine.
Look, I don't know exactly what you are experiencing. I know next to nothing about you. I have no idea what you will be thinking a year from now or in the next 15 minutes. But good heavens, you are hardly alone in thinking there is a divine light which you can follow. Millions of people have expressed this idea in various ways.
We live in a time when bold materialists thinkers are going to dump on any sort of spiritualism. They hear "Inner light" and alarm bells ring. They think the vote is in and materialism has won the election by a massive landslide. It seems that way to them because they talk to each other, and they keep hearing the same thing. Actually, most of the people in the world believe in some kind of religion, and accept the idea of God, transcendent realms, divine light, and so on.
Most the people in the world are stupid.
Even if I was a weak person, how could you blame me though? I am convinced that no character strength or anything else can replace my inner light. Personally, I think that the inner light is everything to allowing us to truly perceive the good value and beauty of things in this life. Also, I never thought I was special. I was just pointing out to you my struggle which was very important to point out in order to make the argument I was wanting to make.
The reason why everything got underlined here is that you are missing a "[/u]" at the end of what you wanted underlined. Every "u, i, and/or b" in brackets [ ] has to be followed by a "/u, /i, and/or /b" in brackets [ ].
First, I don't care about your "inner light" you can preach that nonsense all day long and I'll just keep dismissing it. Second, you are the only person with any true control of your life and who you are, if you are weak then it by your own faults.
Then what we have here is an agree to disagree scenario. Personally, I think that living a life of character strength alone can only be a life where you live out the motions. It is a life of nothing but doing things, carrying on in life, making the best of things, and is a life of nothing but words (value judgments). Especially since it was like that for me during my whole 10 year struggle. Not a single moment did I perceive any real good value or beauty in my life. I think that my values are the higher and transcended values while the values of the rest of humanity such as people like you are empty and nothing more than that of a mere machine. You nor anyone else can comprehend nor understand my higher values.
The great cop out. Ya I don't agree to disagree, you are withdrawing and I still think your "worldview" is a waste of words.
Hmmmm, yes, I've read that too. Everybody is stupid except me and thee, of course, but even thee is as blunt as an ox at times.
When there is an argument/debate between two people with two entirely different worldviews where one throws out accusations and name calling and the other does the same, then such arguments can get absolutely nowhere. So, each person is left to his/her own personal values. I think that is just what it all comes down to and there is nothing that can be done about it. It's just the way it is. I do not agree with your value system, I detest it since it dismisses my inner light that I think truly exists, and, therefore, I am not going to waste my time with your suggestions since I am firmly convinced by my own personal experience and struggles.
I think you are assuming too much there of what I said. Most the world is stupid, I never said anything about separating myself out from that assessment. I just realize that humans have such a poor grasp of reality and they like to make up stupid crap to deal with that lack of understanding.
Ya, I don't care. People always make the mistake of assuming that I should be inclined to be reasonable, but I am not. I think your "world view" is just another grossly oversimplified take of something you are too limited to grasp.
However, if I did find myself in a state of complete anhedonia or misery and it lasted most of my life, then if someone very compassionate came into my life and tried to help me, then I would be willing to take their advice. But I cannot guarantee this advice would work out for me because, like I said, I am not sure anything can replace my inner light that I believe in. But if some jerk came into my life and gave me advice, then I would give up on such a person and not even waste my time with him or her.
I think we already established that you are too weak to stand on your own two feet.
I don't care how weak I am. It is nothing important to me. From my perspective, character strength simply has no place in this world. It is only my positive emotions that truly matter in my life.
That is until you crash and burn. Your "negative" emotions are part of who you are, that is not something you can hide from or escape. I already know that I am troll and an ass, but in this, I am right and in time you will agree with me.
In what way are you exempt from your own judgement?
Look, the point is that telling someone that their ideas are stupid and a waste of time doesn't advance a discussion. We are all prone to the practice of believing our own bullshit, me and thee included. But someone telling us we are full of shit sheds very little light on our sad state.
I prefer materialist explanations of mental events; but if someone frames their experience in spiritual terms, then we are just not going to agree on what is going on. That fact of our differing frame of reference doesn't mean that the spiritual framework is just BS.
Been there and done that. I have already been crashed down by the worst misery and hopelessness of my life for a whole 10 year struggle. Nothing has changed during that entire time. So, what makes you think you are right?
I disagree with that assessment.
Oh, yes, I am sure you have experienced the worst life has to offer. . . . :-}
I can assure you I have experienced emotional traumatic events. These emotional traumas have put me in states of complete misery. I have, in fact, had the attitude of facing and standing up to these miserable states (what is called character strength), but that did nothing to bring my life a whole new sense of good value and worth. So, what makes you think that it can ever work out for me?
Not interested in your "traumatic events", everyone thinks their life is the worst, get over yourself.
I never said that my life was the worst. All I said was that I have had emotional trauma and nothing worked for me to give my life good value and worth during that entire struggle. The only thing that worked was fully recovering from it and having my positive emotions back to me again.
If you want to convince someone that there is a better way of thinking about things than the one which they are displaying, you have to be polite, and specific. Sure, I think a lot of people are full of shit. If I want to just dismiss them then telling them they are full of shit is an effective, if crude, way of doing it.
TranscendentRealms' OP was not defective. He related his experience (which we do not know the details of, so can't really dismiss as stupid) and then he related a positive upside of his very negative experiences.
Above you say "everyone thinks their life is the worst, get over yourself" but you know nothing of what he experienced. Most people don't, but some people actually have world class bad experiences, and they aren't exaggerating. You don't know (I don't either) but philosophical discussions are supposed to tease apart problems with a fine surgical knife and not a chain saw, which is kind of the way you're going about it.
You can do better.
In addition to my previous reply I recently made to you, I would like to say one last thing here which is an interesting analogy/story. If there were a group of beautiful flowers that have taken on human form and these flower beings grow and thrive differently than how we as human beings grow and thrive, then do we have every reason to look down upon them and call them weak, inferior, etc.?
Just because they grow and thrive in a life of happiness and sunshine and wither in a life of misery and darkness does not mean we should look down upon them. They simply grow and thrive differently than us as human beings. I am like one of these flower beings since the only way my conscious being can grow and thrive is through my inner light. These flower beings would, therefore, have a different value system than us as human beings just as how I have a different value system than other human beings.
It's very likely that "divine senses" are radically different objectively, and probably subjectively. I say that it is the role of ethics to judge them all. Almost all will be found wanting.
They may be wanting, but why do you think they will be found deficient?
:) because maybe there is just one ethical standpoint that IS "best" . (and maybe TR's is in the right direction but trying to be too "pure".....)
I will now present something that supports my whole worldview which supports and objective (intrinsic) good and bad. Positive thoughts have to line up with positive emotions and negative thoughts have to line up with negative emotions since positive thoughts make us feel positive emotions and negative thoughts make us feel negative emotions. From there, value judgments of good value make us feel positive emotions such as thinking it is a good day today while value judgments of bad value make us feel negative emotions such as thinking something is horrible. So, you have a positive thought which is just a positive thought and then you have a positive emotion which is intrinsically positive like a positive charge.
You then have a negative thought which is just a negative thought and then you have a negative emotion which is intrinsically negative like a negative charge. To take it one step further, you have a positive (good) value judgment and then you have a positive (good) emotion which is intrinsically good. From there, you have a negative (bad) value judgment and then you have a negative (bad) emotion which is intrinsically bad. If a good or bad value judgment did not make you feel a positive or negative emotion, then there could be a number of factors as to why. Other than that, they do make you feel positive and negative emotions. Even if these positive and negative emotions were induced by other means such as drugs rather than thoughts, then they would still be intrinsically good and bad emotions.
Then there are people who are possessed by the devil, which is a lot like god-possessed enthusiasm, too. They just aren't as nice about it. (I'm not referring to you, btw.)
I'm not so sure. Enthusiam is a productive driver of thought. I feel that it is the quest for elegance that adversely affects thinking sometimes.