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Mechanism of hidden authoritarianism in Western countries

Linkey January 22, 2026 at 09:02 1675 views 48 comments
As far as I can see, the Western democracy is mostly an illusion; the Western countries are ruled by the financial aristocracy. This works as follows: if a problem arises in society, the financial elite, represented by parliamentarians, passes laws to solve it; but these laws simultaneously serve one more purpose—increasing the wealth and power of the elite. In particular, these laws are always aimed at suppressing small businesses, because small businessmen are less dependent on the power and can overthrow it.
I have a couple of examples, but I apologize for not fact-checking everything thoroughly; I hope someone here can help me with this:
1) I have seen an interview on Euronews, where it was said that agricultural subsidies in the European Union always help large agricultural holdings more than small farmers;
2) One blogger wrote about how laws aimed to combat global warming (greenhouse gas emission quotas) in New Zealand similarly benefit large agricultural holdings, and lead to ruining of small farmers.
Please comment my examples above and suggest any others.

Comments (48)

AmadeusD January 22, 2026 at 19:12 #1036779
Reply to Linkey As someone who lives in NZ, I don't think you have that right. Can you provide the blog?
Metaphysician Undercover January 24, 2026 at 02:25 #1037043
Quoting Linkey
In particular, these laws are always aimed at suppressing small businesses, because small businessmen are less dependent on the power and can overthrow it.


In general, large business is advantageous to the government. There are many reasons, but it's easier and more efficient for the government to have the company rule over its various activities itself, and it's employees, collect taxes etc., and report to the government, then for it to govern over a whole bunch of small businesses.

So in agriculture and food production for example, the government can stipulate that the company must hire inspectors, and maintain a safe food supply, rather than having to send out a whole crew of inspectors around to all the different small businesses. The company does the inspections, but a small business couldn't afford this. It's a matter of efficiency.
Linkey January 24, 2026 at 06:28 #1037048
Quoting AmadeusD
Can you provide the blog?


Sorry, no - it is in Russian and in Telegram.
LuckyR January 24, 2026 at 19:41 #1037116
As far as I can see, the Western democracy is mostly an illusion; the Western countries are ruled by the financial aristocracy.

Reply to Linkey
To be more specific, the notion that democracy ignores the external influence of power, is an illusion. But did anyone actually believe this naive concept?
L'éléphant January 25, 2026 at 23:50 #1037312
Quoting LuckyR
To be more specific, the notion that democracy ignores the external influence of power, is an illusion. But did anyone actually believe this naive concept?

The public, consisting of the average people, is people's worst enemy.
One, the workforce (labor) seems to have given up on fighting for stronger economic condition. The pension plan had been eliminated by most corporations. What we're left with is compensation deferrals -- which is not a pension, but workers' own fruit of labor being set aside for their own subsidy in old age. Not everyone can afford to contribute to their own retirement accounts, at least meaningfully. And no one protested on the street when pension disappeared.

Two, we do not try to understand how our money held in banks and retirement accounts are being invested. The big money is beyond our comprehension -- we are passively providing the investment for corporations that, with their oligarchic behavior influencing government policies that benefit their wealth, uses money that eventually destroys us.

Three -- there is something to understand about living wages. The minimum wage is not a living wage. But increasing the minimum wage affects most small businesses and all other benefits that can be provided to the workers.

Four -- health insurance and affordable housing. I live in HCOL area, I just cannot understand how local governments can allow housing costs to go out of control without corresponding wages going out of control to match the housing costs.
And why is the social security administration still stuck in the old policy of not taxing all wages? Instead, the higher wages are not taxed after a certain amount.

Five -- taxation of the wealthy the size of the galaxy.
BC January 26, 2026 at 02:26 #1037325
Quoting L'éléphant
the workforce (labor) seems to have given up on fighting for stronger economic condition.


It's less 'have given up' and much more "they've been defeated'. It is extremely difficult to overcome the legal barriers erected against unionization; equally difficult is attempting to organize a company when the workers are deluged by anti-union messaging and threats. Fewer and fewer workers have experienced work in an effectively unionized company.

Another barrier is cheap labor (unemployed people, immigrants--documented and not documented) are willing to work for less than the previously unionized workers were. For the newly hired striker-replacements, the lower wages paid are still a lot better than what they were getting at home south of the border.

Quoting L'éléphant
I live in HCOL area, I just cannot understand how local governments can allow housing costs to go out of control without corresponding wages going out of control to match the housing costs.


As far as I know, local governments usually do not have control over rental rates. It isn't just that they haven't tried; they can't. They have to be granted that power by their state legislature. Needless to add, property interests fight VERY hard against rent control.

For the most party, government does not have control over wages (except for their state employees). Not congress, not legislatures, not city councils lay out wage rates which companies have to pay.

Wages and rental rates are affected by labor markets and housing markets far, far more than any regulation.

Quoting L'éléphant
we do not try to understand how our money held in banks and retirement accounts are being invested.


Pretty much true. And we don't know enough to invest our own money in a complex equity markets.

Quoting L'éléphant
The minimum wage is not a living wage.


No kidding! $15k vs $90k.

The Federal Minimum Wage is absurdly low -- $7.25 per hour. That's about $15.000 per year, full time. Some states have set higher minimum wages. Minnesota's minimum wage is $11.41, almost $24,000 working full time. The minimum wage in Minneapolis is $$16.37, or a little over $34,000 a year. $34,000 might be ok for a frugal single person, but it certainly would not be much for a family of 4 (2 adults, 2 children) not matter how frugal they were. An estimated "living wage" in Minneapolis is considered to be about $43.11 per hour for a single earner supporting a family of four (2 adults, 2 children). That works out to be a little over $90,000 a year. $90k isn't luxuriant. A reasonably nice apartment for 4 people could easily cost $36,000 a year.

Quoting L'éléphant
Five -- taxation of the wealthy the size of the galaxy.


What is the size of the galaxy -- the wealth that isn't getting taxed or the state income if we taxed wealth at the formerly high rates?

BC January 26, 2026 at 02:30 #1037326
Quoting Linkey
As far as I can see, the Western democracy is mostly an illusion; the Western countries are ruled by the financial aristocracy.


We aren't "ruled by the financial aristocracy"; we are ruled (so far) by civilian government. But as Marx said "The government is a committee for arranging the affairs of the bourgeoisie." So, a prime concern of the government has always been he needs and wishes of the wealthy class.

LuckyR January 26, 2026 at 07:01 #1037340
Reply to L'éléphant
I agree with your overall sentiment, but differ on some of your example interpretations.

First, pensions were a fine concept but those huge reserves made companies targets of corporate raiders who would buy the companies, transfer the pension money away, then send (their own company) into bankruptcy. Better to have an IRA and 401K with your name on it.

Second, investing sophistication is not required. A low fee S&P 500 index fund is a well appreciated foundation of personal investing. Everyone knows someone who can understand the basics of long-term investing. Especially in the current era whereby investment advice is plentiful and free.

Third, minimum wages should only be earned by teenagers, entry level folks or those whose compensation is actually made up of tips or commissions. In other words, no one should be making minimum wages alone and raising a family.

Fourth, the influence that local government has on lowering housing costs is to loosen building restrictions (or applying other incentives) to increase supply, thereby lowering costs.
Linkey January 26, 2026 at 07:06 #1037342
Let me continue. A common situation is when candidate A promises something ugly regarding question 1, but something good regarding question 2. Candidate B promises something good regarding question 1, but something ugly regarding question 2. So the voters do not have choice.

For example, some candidates promise to supress gays, while others promise to supress homophobes; and when these candidates change each other, nothing changes, because both parties are rather spoilers serving the financial elite. This is clealy seen in case of USA and Poland.
Punshhh January 26, 2026 at 07:39 #1037345
Reply to Linkey I agree with your premise, but would suggest that this system is better than all the others (except perhaps some forms of socialism, which are rarely successful).

Democracy is about preventing authoritarian control of a population. What the political party’s do when they get into office is not all that important, provided the democratic principle is maintained.

We have a different problem when it comes to money. Capitalism has turned toxic, big finance strips out opportunity for small players to compete. The middle classes are becoming squeezed leaving the super rich and the poor (people who are struggling to keep their heads above water). This kind of polarisation is destructive.
Linkey January 27, 2026 at 09:37 #1037515
Quoting Punshhh
?Linkey I agree with your premise, but would suggest that this system is better than all the others (except perhaps some forms of socialism, which are rarely successful).


Of course, but a better system can be easily invented - just if many referendums would be performed in each country. Currently the best political system is in Switzerland, since they have a referendum each 3 munths. But I believe that even in Switzerland there is o lot of manipulations by the politicans, which offer to the people only "politically correct" initiatives for the referedums.
Astorre January 27, 2026 at 10:52 #1037524
Reply to Linkey

Your post reads like the first steps of someone beginning to see beyond the veneer of "democratic values." I'd just like to clarify your choice of terminology. Instead of "authoritarianism," "oligarchy" or "plutocracy" would be more appropriate. Since you read posts in Russian, as you mentioned above, it seems you are a native speaker. I understand perfectly well the feeling when the visions of a Western paradise broadcast on "Voice of America" ??or "Radio Liberty" don't match reality.

At the same time, it's quite difficult to find anyone on this forum who is willing to share your thoughts. Well, I wish you luck in your search for the truth.

ssu January 27, 2026 at 12:30 #1037532
Quoting Linkey
As far as I can see, the Western democracy is mostly an illusion; the Western countries are ruled by the financial aristocracy. This works as follows: if a problem arises in society, the financial elite, represented by parliamentarians, passes laws to solve it; but these laws simultaneously serve one more purpose—increasing the wealth and power of the elite. In particular, these laws are always aimed at suppressing small businesses, because small businessmen are less dependent on the power and can overthrow it.


Democracy doesn't create a paradise, but it still works in some countries. Many people just look at their own "democracy" and assume others are similar. Especially now when the United States is at a political crisis with rampant and unchecked corruption going on, this is a very normal attitude that people will have.

Yet remember that it's the authoritarians themselves who push exactly this rhetoric that you say: that Western democracy is an illusion, that it is totally ruled by the financial aristocracy. This is the classic argument from the left, from the past Marxist-Leninists with the Nazis just adding to the line that the financial aristocracy is controlled by Jews.

But let's look at this from a different viewpoint and just ask yourself: If the above what you say is true, then how on Earth do a lot of countries have a welfare state? How do we enjoy universal health care? Free education including university level education? Having a home being a right of the individual? First a six-day working week and then a five day working week? Labour laws, work safety requirement and trade unions where the vast majority belong to these unions, including military officers?

Quoting Linkey
1) I have seen an interview on Euronews, where it was said that agricultural subsidies in the European Union always help large agricultural holdings more than small farmers;

Subsidies are usually paid for production and there obviously isn't a case of the laws having limitations like "If you produce well over this huge amount, no subsidies will be given to you". That would be extremely counterproductive.

And let's remember just how agriculture has changed in the long run and is still changing.

Earlier in the West (just as now in the poorest countries still) peasants were subsistence farmers, land owners or renters, but basically dirt poor against our standards with only a few of the landowners being immensely wealthy. This has transformed into commercial farming, which is far more like modern manufacturing where the economics of scale bring in the real money. When farming is fully automated, the costs of having that modern tractor or the robots that milk the cows and the huge cowpen where the cows wander freely are far higher than the standard farmer working on the farm inherited from his/her parents can afford. So one option is simply to rent the fields and get another job, which is happening in many countries.

(Cows waiting in line for the milking robot. In a modern cowhouse the cows go freely to the milking and wander around freely. You can imagine what an investment this is.)
User image

This leads to simply to the fact that largest producers get the largest subsidies, even if the subsidies originally were to provide for a large number of smaller producers. The loss in the number of smaller farmers is happening because of this transformation basically in every Western country.




L'éléphant January 29, 2026 at 05:13 #1037784
Quoting LuckyR
First, pensions were a fine concept but those huge reserves made companies targets of corporate raiders who would buy the companies, transfer the pension money away, then send (their own company) into bankruptcy. Better to have an IRA and 401K with your name on it.

Good point, but I don't know how prevalent this phenomenon is.

All the rest of your comments, :up:
L'éléphant January 29, 2026 at 05:36 #1037788
Reply to BC

Quoting BC
It's less 'have given up' and much more "they've been defeated'. It is extremely difficult to overcome the legal barriers erected against unionization; equally difficult is attempting to organize a company when the workers are deluged by anti-union messaging and threats. Fewer and fewer workers have experienced work in an effectively unionized company.

Yes, union membership is now at its lowest. I think the inflexibility of a union is one of the reasons also. Speaking of which, look what is happening now with UPS and Amazon. UPS has laid off thousands, and will continue this year about 30k more due to the nonprofitability suffered by UPS under contract with Amazon.
Linkey January 30, 2026 at 18:27 #1038038
Quoting ssu
Yet remember that it's the authoritarians themselves who push exactly this rhetoric that you say: that Western democracy is an illusion, that it is totally ruled by the financial aristocracy. This is the classic argument from the left


Very strange - from the Left? For me, the ruling elites are in full collaboration with the Left in Europe (before Trump, in USA too).

The real rulers of the USA and the Western world in general (financial elite) do not allow smart and honest people to start a serious political career, because a smart politician can become a threat/competitor for these rulers. So only bad candidates can participate in elections, and so the voters do not have a good choice.

I have two questions relating last US presidential elections:

1) Am I right that the US mass media like CNN and Fox News supported Disantis instead of Trump, stating that Disantis is “a young and smart Trump”, “let it be the Trumpism without Trump”, “the approval rating of Disantis is increasing while the rating of Trump is decreasing”?

2) I saw the presidential debates between the candidates; Haley said there that Putin is a murderer. Disantis always said that he plans to stop supporting Ukraine. Logically this means that Haley must had hated Disantis, but instead they rather were “friends against Trump”. Am I right?
ssu January 30, 2026 at 23:21 #1038071
Quoting Linkey
Very strange - from the Left? For me, the ruling elites are in full collaboration with the Left in Europe (before Trump, in USA too).

Yes. Just look at history. Just look at what Marxist-Leninists actually wrote. Here's some Soviet propaganda:

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(Capitalists of the World, unite!)
User image

Then we can look back just how many millions of it's own citizens the Communist system killed in Soviet Union or in China.

To see the wrongs is easy, yet what radicals purpose to solve those wrongs is the crucial part that people don't notice. Or with Trump, he just says he'll do it, and the Maga-crowd believed him.

Quoting Linkey
The real rulers of the USA and the Western world in general (financial elite) do not allow smart and honest people to start a serious political career, because a smart politician can become a threat/competitor for these rulers. So only bad candidates can participate in elections, and so the voters do not have a good choice.

I'm not so sure about that. Many see how disgusting the politics is, think of what there family would be through if they would become politicians. They take other professions. Do perhaps some voluntary work etc.

No, the problem starts from the ground roots. Ask yourself, how many of your friends and those who you work with or share a hobby are politically active, are in for example in communal politics? When's the last time when you have talked with a political representative of your country (Parliament member / member of Congress)?

If ordinary people don't participate in politics, what is the chance really for democracy to work?


Tom Storm January 31, 2026 at 00:48 #1038079
Quoting ssu
If ordinary people don't participate in politics, what is the chance really for democracy to work?


Yes. One of the most powerful tools of the status quo and certain corporate interests is the idea that all is hopeless, all parties are the same. If people give up, nothing can change.
NOS4A2 January 31, 2026 at 16:50 #1038166
Reply to Linkey

Alexis de Tocqueville came up with a good little concept called “soft despotism” that I think describes well the Western condition. We are fed the illusion of control (“representative” democracy), when in fact each of us have very little.

Rather, we are no more than serfs exploited for our resources. Some countries have such high tax burdens that such a livelihood is tantamount to forced labor, and I think many people are starting to realize that their governments are violating any and all contractual obligations to the people they lord over.
Athena January 31, 2026 at 17:47 #1038174
Reply to Linkey "Borlaug is often called "the father of the Green Revolution",[6][7] and is credited with saving over a billion people worldwide from starvation."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug#:~:text=Norman%20Ernest%20Borlaug%20(%2F%CB%88b%C9%94%CB%90rl%C9%94%CB%90%C9%A1%2F%3B%20March&text=was%20an%20American%20agronomist%20who,production%20termed%20the%20Green%20Revolution.

That is why governments support the big guys. They can produce more food and may even have enough to sell on the world market, improving the nation's economy. Unfortunately, this fact of life hurts the little guy.
Athena January 31, 2026 at 18:05 #1038176
Quoting NOS4A2
Rather, we are no more than serfs exploited for our resources. Some countries have such high tax burdens that such a livelihood is tantamount to forced labor, and I think many people are starting to realize that their governments are violating any and all contractual obligations to the people they lord over.


Now wait a minute. If nurses and hospital staff were as willing to work for low wages as they were not so long ago, medical care would be more affordable, if teachers also did so for less as they did when my grandmother was a teacher, we would have more affordable schools.

I am not so sure the US will avoid an economic collapse. If it does, it will mean people dying to maintain the present status quo.

:lol: Demanding higher wages and then complaining about inflation is a little nuts. If the labor costs more, the product/service will cost more. We cannot compete in the global market with the highest production costs. Long ago, when Britain realized how malnourished and sickly their military-aged laborers were, industrialists were asked to pay more for labor, and the industrialist explained they could not increase costs and compete in the world markets. The solution was government assistance to the poor, which can be seen as a subsidy for Industry. US workers have had to compete with lower-wage laborers in other countries without government assistance. I would not beat my chest and be proud of being the best.
Athena January 31, 2026 at 18:20 #1038179
Quoting Linkey
1) Am I right that the US mass media like CNN and Fox News supported Disantis instead of Trump, stating that Disantis is “a young and smart Trump”, “let it be the Trumpism without Trump”, “the approval rating of Disantis is increasing while the rating of Trump is decreasing”?


According to AI Fox News heavily favored Donald Trump and the Republican party during the 2020 and 2024 election cycles. https://www.google.com/search?q=who+did+fox+news+support+in+last+campaign&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS990US990&oq=who+did+fox+news+support+in+last+campaign&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRigATIHCAYQIRifBTIHCAcQIRifBdIBCjIyMzQ1ajBqMTWoAgywAgHxBRc5dEh5ldiV8QUXOXRIeZXYlQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
[/quote]

Not only did Fox News support Trump, but Evangelical ministers told their flocks that Trump is the man God has chosen to lead us.
NOS4A2 January 31, 2026 at 18:30 #1038180
Reply to Athena

Why did the British laborer run to the industrialists for jobs in the first place? Because of the “enclosure acts”; the government dispossessed the people from their traditional lands, so these people had to go work for subsistence wages in the towns and factories. It was either that or starve to death, after all. Had the industrialists not had a ready-made force of starving and sickly laborers to choose from they would have had to provide decent wages so as to entice the workers to work for them. All of this was occurring while the disastrous Poor Laws were already in place.

For every Josiah Bounderby there is bureaucrat behind him.
Athena January 31, 2026 at 18:59 #1038184
Quoting NOS4A2
Why did the British laborer run to the industrialists for jobs in the first place? Because of the “enclosure acts”; the government dispossessed the people from their traditional lands, so these people had to go work for subsistence wages in the towns and factories. It was either that or starve to death, after all. Had the industrialists not had a ready-made force of starving and sickly laborers to choose from they would have had to provide decent wages so as to entice the workers to work for them. All of this was occurring while the disastrous Poor Laws were already in place.

For every Josiah Bounderby there is bureaucrat behind him.


What were the lives of people living off the land, like before they were kicked off the land? How much responsibility should the landowners have had for the people living on the land? How could the landowners get the money to meet the needs of people living on their land?

How did that change affect the nation?

Where did the industrialist money come from?

Linkey February 01, 2026 at 05:50 #1038240
Speaking of the financial elites, I can explain who they are:

https://kimgriest.medium.com/real-reason-the-american-middle-class-is-disappearing-901cb78ababf

Many people I’ve met have concluded that it is getting harder to “make it” in America. When I was a kid in the 1970’s our neighbor worked as a butcher at a chain grocery store and was able to own a nice house, support his wife and two kids, and live a comfortable life, purely on the basis of wages he received. This was typical in my neighborhood; regular working people without advanced degrees could live well in America. Now, people who work 40 hours/week at a grocery store have no chance of buying a house on their own, and can barely afford rent. What happened?


The top right pie chart in Figure 3 shows the USA in 2014. We see how the middle class has shrunk and the top 1% have increased their share due to current economic policies (mainly low taxes on the wealthy).


Since the wealthiest 1% own and control most large corporations, we see that “business friendly” really means policies that help the 1% at the expense of the middle class. Also, since almost all mass media are owned and controlled by the 1%, we almost never see meaningful discussion of these ideas in the mainstream press. So-called liberal media such as the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC in fact almost always ridicule these ideas as impractical, socialist or even communism, even though they were part of main stream American economic policy from the 1940s through the 1970s, and are a big part of what made America great after WWII. The supposedly liberal media are owned and controlled, of course, by large corporations and the extremely wealthy, so it is not surprising that, like all privately owned entities, they serve the needs of their owners. In my opinion the US mainstream media do a “good cop/bad cop” routine on the American public, with Fox and AM radio playing the bad cop and the “liberal media” playing the good cop, but both conspiring to not let these ideas out. As proof of this, note that in 2016, when Bernie Sanders started outlining some of these ideas, ALL the “liberal” main stream media ignored the ideas, instead focusing on personalities, etc. Fox and the right wing media did focus on the ideas, but only to distort and lie about them, knowing their audience was not very demanding of factual information.




So these 1% welthiest are the "nobles", while maybe the FED bankers are "monarchs".
Tzeentch February 01, 2026 at 06:02 #1038241
I think authoritarianism is the wrong word. I think the right one is corruption - and yes, it is rampant.
ssu February 04, 2026 at 22:08 #1038942
Quoting Athena
Now wait a minute. If nurses and hospital staff were as willing to work for low wages as they were not so long ago, medical care would be more affordable, if teachers also did so for less as they did when my grandmother was a teacher, we would have more affordable schools.

One thing is sure, I wouldn't start from the wages of the health care employees, but simply to take out the insurance companies from the racket. Have universal health care, have the government act as a single, bulk purchaser, leveraging high-volume demand in order for negotiating lower costs from manufacturers. Anyway, start with the profit taking and rent seeking. If you lower the wages of health care professionals, likely you won't get in the future as good people into the sector.

Do understand that the American health care system is a racket. It's a racket where some people don't have health care which leaves them to have their first appointment with health care system when they are carried from the ambulance to ER. That's insane and extremely costly. No other way could you spend so much money on health care with so mediocre results. Norway has lot's of oil revenue and it simply pours this into it's health care system (with the effect the Finnish nurses flock to Northern Norway thanks to the high salaries). Still it's spending isn't anywhere close to the US system.

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Quoting Tzeentch
I think authoritarianism is the wrong word. I think the right one is corruption - and yes, it is rampant.

Authoritarianism creates an opening for rampant corruption.

Authoritarianism basically means that the extremely important institutions that keeps corruption in check is replaced by favoritism and cronyism.

These two go hand in hand.
Linkey February 05, 2026 at 05:18 #1039028
As far as I can see, Europe (in comparison to the USA) is close to USSR: it has more equality, but less freedom.
There is often some correlation between the authoritarianism and the equality: for example, in China there is a large middle class now. Maybe the explanation is that since China is a hightly authoritarian country, its rulers are not afraid of the middle class (while in the Western world the middle class could overthrow the ruling elites, because it has more civil rights).
LuckyR February 05, 2026 at 06:15 #1039035
Reply to ssu
US healthcare cost is a poor example to illustrate any simple concept since the reasons for it's outlier status are multiple and complicated.
Tzeentch February 05, 2026 at 08:16 #1039049
Reply to ssu Western countries are not authoritarian, they are democratic. The 'hidden authoritarianism' the OP is talking about is the corruption of the democratic system and not actual authoritarianism.

Calling it 'authoritarianism' is a misdirection, shifting the blame to people like Trump (who was democratically elected), and an attempt at perpetuating the myth that democracies would somehow be immune to corruption if it weren't for figures such as him.

The truth is of course that western democracies have arrived at the terminal end stage of corruption, and that this corruption was allowed to spread through ways inherent to the system; lobbies, power and wealth concentration, media manipulation, etc. etc.
ssu February 05, 2026 at 10:10 #1039058
Quoting Tzeentch
Western countries are not authoritarian, they are democratic.

Democracies can turn also authoritarian. Case point is what is happening (or attempted) in the US, but Hungary is another example.

Quoting Tzeentch
The 'hidden authoritarianism' the OP is talking about is the corruption of the democratic system and not actual authoritarianism.

Rule of the rich is called Plutocracy.

Best example of plutocracy is when how many votes you have is dependent on how much taxes you pay (and hence how much income you get). Then basically it's an integral part of the system.

Quoting Tzeentch
Calling it 'authoritarianism' is a misdirection, shifting the blame to people like Trump (who was democratically elected), and an attempt at perpetuating the myth that democracies would somehow be immune to corruption if it weren't for figures such as him.


Corruption is a complex issue. And indeed it doesn't need authoritarianism, but my point is authoritarianism goes many times hand in hand with corruption. Corruption can been indeed very institutionalized and it's origins are interesting. Do people in general obey the laws and pay their taxes? What is the attitude towards paying bribes? How common is it? If the police stops you, do you give him a bribe?

Quoting Tzeentch
The truth is of course that western democracies have arrived at the terminal end stage of corruption

Terminal stage? Well, many times everything seems to feel like this is the end.




ssu February 05, 2026 at 10:15 #1039060
Quoting LuckyR
US healthcare cost is a poor example to illustrate any simple concept since the reasons for it's outlier status are multiple and complicated.

Everything is complicated, yet the simple fact is that US health care costs are the highest in the World whereas the healthcare system is mediocre and the US doesn't have universal health care, the only developed and industrialized country without it.

That in itself tells a lot.
frank February 05, 2026 at 10:25 #1039061
Quoting ssu
the healthcare system is mediocr


Outcomes are worse. That doesn't equate to "mediocre.". Why exactly outcomes are worse is an unanswered question. One hypothesis is that the American population is sicker for some reason.

American and German doctors compared notes trying to discover why American COVID outcomes were so much worse. Neither group could pinpoint the cause.
Tzeentch February 05, 2026 at 10:31 #1039064
Reply to ssu Hungary nor the US is authoritarian. That's just a pure cope from people who are mad that the democratic process didn't produce the outcome they wanted.
ssu February 05, 2026 at 10:34 #1039065
Quoting frank
Outcomes are worse. That doesn't equate to "mediocre.". Why exactly outcomes are worse is an unanswered question. One hypothesis is that the American population is sicker for some reason.

Well, it isn't yet equivalent to a Third World country's health care system. One hypothesis is that there simply isn't so much preventive health care treatment. Or how about food safety?

I think it just starts compiling up in a spectacular fashion. One huge reason is simply that any system that is created to make a profit will make it expensive. Health care of the population shouldn't be viewed as an opportunity to get profits, but a service that the government should provide for it's people.
ssu February 05, 2026 at 10:47 #1039068
Quoting Tzeentch
Hungary nor the US is authoritarian. That's just a pure cope from people who are mad that the democratic process didn't produce the outcome they wanted.

Nope, it's actually the actions that the leaders do. Do the leaders stay in their described role in the system or start taking power which they shouldn't have? Is the judiciary independent? Is political plurality accepted or not?

Well, Trump's DOJ and it's actions are a case point. Just to give one example.

frank February 05, 2026 at 10:49 #1039069
Quoting ssu
One hypothesis is that there simply isn't so much preventive health care treatment. Or how about food safety?


Both. A good diet is more expensive. Ironically, the American problem with obesity is caused by low quality, ultra-processed crap.

Quoting ssu
Health care of the population shouldn't be viewed as an opportunity to get profits,


Maybe, but I think there is some benefit to competition in healthcare, although since COVID, American healthcare providers have been coalescing into mega-entities. The advantage to that is that huge operations (spanning across half the country in some cases) can take control of drug costs.
ssu February 05, 2026 at 11:02 #1039071
Quoting frank
Ironically, the American problem with obesity is caused by low quality, ultra-processed crap.

Would be interesting to know just why and how it has come to that.

Quoting frank
since COVID, American healthcare providers have been coalescing into mega-entities. The advantage to that is that huge operations (spanning across half the country in some cases) can take control of drug costs.
Better to have a single buyer. And why is there advertising for prescription medication?

frank February 05, 2026 at 11:13 #1039072
Quoting ssu
Would be interesting to know just why and how it has come to that.


There's a documentary about it. One of the factors is that the Silent generation didn't have enough to eat when they were young. They didn't have much of a concept of a healthy diet.

Quoting ssu
And why is there advertising for prescription medication?


I know. It's ridiculous.
Tzeentch February 05, 2026 at 11:43 #1039074
Reply to ssu The US system has been irreconcilably broken for decades. The idea that Trump meaningfully changed anything is laughable.
ssu February 05, 2026 at 20:23 #1039148
Quoting Tzeentch
The US system has been irreconcilably broken for decades. The idea that Trump meaningfully changed anything is laughable.

Broken, but working. Usually the Presidents became multimillionaires through writing books and giving speeches. They didn't become billionaires...when acting as president. Your argument is obviously that "this isn't anything new under the sun". But it actually is. When the corruption is in the hundreds of millions, when it's open and when nothing happens, that's the worrying issue.

Or you think it's ordinary, that the President of the US sues the IRS for 10 billion dollars for leaked tax information? You really think that it is totally ordinary, the typical thing? It's laughable if you think it is.



Tzeentch February 05, 2026 at 20:37 #1039153
Reply to ssu What Trump has done so far is small fry compared to what previous administrations got up to. They destroyed entire regions of the world on false grounds.

If Trump is stealing large amounts of cash from the evil empire, he's doing the entire world a favor. :lol:

I can just hear those sad violins playing as the poor Americans are left to wonder how they'll pay for all the bombs they like to throw on goatherds and rice farmers.

It also has nothing to do with authoritarianism. It's just good old fashioned corruption.
LuckyR February 06, 2026 at 06:48 #1039254
Everything is complicated, yet the simple fact is that US health care costs are the highest in the World whereas the healthcare system is mediocre and the US doesn't have universal health care, the only developed and industrialized country without it.

That in itself tells a lot

Reply to ssu
Well, your conclusions are, as you mention, simple. Overly simplistic in my experience.

One thing is true, which is healthcare in the US costs a lot. Almost all of the reasons for that (which are quite numerous and varied), actually have nothing to do with the actual healthcare itself, rather in systems that surround it. Insurance company financial motivations, drug and equipment company profiteering, high malpractice concerns, cultural style, high self abuse rates, heroic attempts to address problems that go untreated elsewhere, an unhealthier population to treat are just a small list of reasons for high costs in the US.

I agree with your exact wording that the SYSTEM is mediocre, but many reading your post will read your words and come away with the understanding that you're saying the HEALTHCARE is mediocre, which it is not.
Linkey February 06, 2026 at 11:32 #1039271
https://www.politico.eu/article/friedrich-merz-is-right-to-reject-germanys-nuclear-phase-out-says-iea-chief-fatih-birol/

Chancellor Friedrich Merz’s admission that Germany’s nuclear phase-out was a “serious strategic mistake” has won an emphatic endorsement from Fatih Birol, executive director of the International Energy Agency.


For me, this was not mistake but rather a crime: the closure of the atomic stations has lead to an increase of oil consumption and buying the oil in Germany, and in fact this means that Germany is now funding the Putin's war in Ukraine (exchange with Saudi Arabia). And it is very possible that the decision to close the stations was payed by the Putin's lobby (as an example, Gerhard Schröder has been working in Russia for a long time).


https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/two-thirds-germans-against-shutting-down-last-nuclear-power-plants-point-survey

Two thirds of Germans against shutting down last nuclear power plants at this point – survey
ssu February 06, 2026 at 12:06 #1039273
Quoting LuckyR
. Almost all of the reasons for that (which are quite numerous and varied), actually have nothing to do with the actual healthcare itself, rather in systems that surround it. Insurance company financial motivations, drug and equipment company profiteering, high malpractice concerns, cultural style, high self abuse rates, heroic attempts to address problems that go untreated elsewhere, an unhealthier population to treat are just a small list of reasons for high costs in the US.


The problem is that the system is designed for the insurance companies and in general for companies with financial motivations around the health care sector, not for the citizens themselves. This is the real fault here. Basically those that benefit from the current system hold dearly on it. Here comes to play the power of lobbying in the US Congress. Why? Isn't the Congress elected by the people? Wouldn't lowering health care costs be something that all Americans would agree on?

One thing can be that the Americans simply don't trust any improvements happening and just assume anything new promised will be worse than now. But I think that is a minor cause. I think here the fault is the entrenched party system, all that gerimandering and a polarized political discourse. The brazen way how Americans who support either party will overlook any criticism of their own party and focus on the errors and faults in the other party creates this tribalism. In my view two parties simply cannot represent the vast different opinions found in any country. It's just little shy from a single-party system. All this creates a fertile breeding ground for corruption, which basically is made legal.

The real problem is that Americans think this system would be changed by electing a President. Thanks to that, the world has gotten now Trump again.
Linkey February 07, 2026 at 13:53 #1039460
One more note: before 2022, Europe bought the oil from Russia, and China from Saudi Arabia. After 2022 this reversed - Europe is buying the oil from SA, China from Russia. If Gemany bought less oil from SA, SA would sell its oil to China, so the China would stop buying the oil from Putin and this would stop the Putin's war.
NOS4A2 February 07, 2026 at 16:32 #1039488
Reply to Linkey

The managed-decline of Europe was always part of the plan. As Angel Merkel noted, perhaps too late, that Europe is only 7% of the world’s population but accounts for 50% its social spending. As the unsustainable relationship between the authorities and their people continues to crumble, we’ll get to find out soon enough what happens to a population that has been raised to be so dependent on their governments to survive.
Linkey February 13, 2026 at 07:33 #1040540
The authoritarianism in Western countries is mostly based on package voting, where each choice for the voters has both some good and bad decisions, and they can't separate them to vote for each point independently. For example, a frightening scenario of the near future is as follows: Trump dies or gets a dementia or becomes impeached by the US parliament, and the Americans choose a president of e.g. these two candidates - J. D. Vance vs Kamala Harris. A half of Americans will vote for Vance because they do not want transgenders in big sport, and another half will vote for Harris because they do not want the abortions to be prohibited. Possibly the choice will become even worse, because both candidates will not talk about cryptocurrencies (this will mean that they plan to forbid them), and they will promise to de-anonymise Meta and X (because people talk too much about politics in the social networks). Both choices will be terrible, and I am sure that the best vote in such situation will be NOTC, or, more exactly, spoiling the ballot.
The best thing Trump can do now, to prevent such a scenario, is the initiation of some all-US referendum with 4 proposals (each point will be voted separately):
1) Ending of "gender diversity";
2) Full legalization of abortions;
3) Legalization of cryptocurrencties;
4) Some declaration that the social network have all rights to make their users anonymous.